[han2503]

But that's just it, he's not even that 'young'. The guy is 21! Sure, if he was 18 and showing sign of promise I could understand the over reaction but he's into his 20's now and still hasn't convinced anyone over a solitary season of his career.

Unlike DS who has convinced us and is the same age. He deserves the praise even if this season was a nightmare for him out of position.

It's sad for players nowadays where 21 is considered relatively old to show talent... The state of football these days where if you're not already hitting in 30 by the time you're in your early 20s the time has already passed you by. These are the unreachable expectations the media and fans have placed on players thanks to the Messi syndrome.

Ronaldo at SES's age (or slightly younger) was a one trick pony with a hairstyle. I think it's great to see that all that work put into him at that young age has worked out into what we see today. A guy who's at his peek during his peek years in his mid-twenties. Not peeking at 21-22 and burning out by 25

And I think DS mostly just negates the argument as he was great last season (just like SES) and has taken a huge nose dive in this one in terms of performances, not to mention the constant injury issues he's struggled with, the only difference is that SES has been out for an entire season while DS has been more sporadic in his appearances due to niggling injuries here and there

Italy are known to let players have all the time they need before they really push them onto the scene. Players are basically treated like a fine wine and not discarded by the time they reach 29 like they do in other countries. SES is still considered a baby in terms of his body's growth and experience. I don't think it's right to jump to conclusions just yet

[Jack Sparrow]

How long before Mastour is expected to be our main man?!

Oh god, I hope we don't ruin another talent! 15 years old??! These are the same bunch of defences that gave Kaka chronic knee problems.

I don't know what I'll think if Chiellini elbows that 15 year old in a match. I'll probably actually want that thug castrated.

F@ck this club's pathetic PR. Why not advertise the youth team's victories. Give them f@cking open top bus parades. This is scary. I'd almost call it pimping.

[Danny]

It's sad for players nowadays where 21 is considered relatively old to show talent... The state of football these days where if you're not already hitting in 30 by the time you're in your early 20s the time has already passed you by. These are the unreachable expectations the media and fans have placed on players thanks to the Messi syndrome.

Not so much - 21 isn't too late to show talent, but it is too late to be the Messiah that many are building him up as. SES could well go on to be a decent wee striker for Milan, I'm not TOTALLY writing him off albeit I've given up on him for now, in terms of the hopes we similarly had for Pato. But 21 IS too late for him to be viewed as the 'Falcao of Italy' to coin a phrase used earlier in this thread.

Ronaldo at SES's age (or slightly younger) was a one trick pony with a hairstyle.

Slightly harsh - we could all see the guy's potential but he had a lot of work to do to get rid of the diving and overzealous step-overs. And he had frankly the best manager to do exactly that, and Ronaldo knows that and credits SAF with making him the player he became.

I accept I didn't see him being the world's outright best and borderline superhuman but he certainly had something and that was evident.

I think it's great to see that all that work put into him at that young age has worked out into what we see today. A guy who's at his peek during his peek years in his mid-twenties. Not peeking at 21-22 and burning out by 25

Being pernickety he's peaked just as he approaches 30.

And I think DS mostly just negates the argument as he was great last season (just like SES) and has taken a huge nose dive in this one in terms of performances, not to mention the constant injury issues he's struggled with, the only difference is that SES has been out for an entire season while DS has been more sporadic in his appearances due to niggling injuries here and there

I truly believe it's nothing more complicated than being played at RB. It's actually ruined him. I'm hoping our next manager (let's face it, Zee won't last the summer) will play the guy at LB and he can return to what he was.

But that's a case of mismanagement from both Allegri and Zee wrecking something we can see capable of being way more.

Italy are known to let players have all the time they need before they really push them onto the scene. Players are basically treated like a fine wine and not discarded by the time they reach 29 like they do in other countries. SES is still considered a baby in terms of his body's growth and experience. I don't think it's right to jump to conclusions just yet

I'd say this upcoming season is literally make or break for his career. He's been with us since 2011 and that July-November 2012 period aside has been completely insipid.

I did like his energy V Catania but he has to offer more next season than running around with a stylish mohawk.

[Danny]

How long before Mastour is expected to be our main man?!

Oh god, I hope we don't ruin another talent! 15 years old??! These are the same bunch of defences that gave Kaka chronic knee problems.

I don't know what I'll think if Chiellini elbows that 15 year old in a match. I'll probably actually want that thug castrated.

F@ck this club's pathetic PR. Why not advertise the youth team's victories. Give them f@cking open top bus parades. This is scary. I'd almost call it pimping.

You think Milan are in chaos? Rangers have wars at every level of the support and board and half the support wants the other half not to renew their season tickets for the upcoming season.

Yeah, my two clubs are in a GREAT state!

[han2503]

Not so much - 21 isn't too late to show talent, but it is too late to be the Messiah that many are building him up as. SES could well go on to be a decent wee striker for Milan, I'm not TOTALLY writing him off albeit I've given up on him for now, in terms of the hopes we similarly had for Pato. But 21 IS too late for him to be viewed as the 'Falcao of Italy' to coin a phrase used earlier in this thread.

Fair enough that you aim your grievances at those who overly hype him over what was half a season of great performances. Totally understand that. I think he has great potential. Whether that potential is ever realised is another thing altogether, which for me, is what really irritates me about the overhyping.

Just let the guy be. Let him develop at his own pace. Why the need for everyone to rush into things?

I think he has a long way to go to be the type of player a team can rely on, as long as this club doesn't ruin him with injuries, I'm not going to be giving up on him just yet, personally speaking.

Slightly harsh - we could all see the guy's potential but he had a lot of work to do to get rid of the diving and overzealous step-overs. And he had frankly the best manager to do exactly that, and Ronaldo knows that and credits SAF with making him the player he became.

I accept I didn't see him being the world's outright best and borderline superhuman but he certainly had something and that was evident.

Don't think it's that harsh tbh. He was all step-over, step-over, step-over, falls on his @ss.

Even if it's harsh on my part one can easily see the progression he's undergone over these years, and yeah, one of the key factors in that is having a strong figure like SAF to guide him, something that SES doesn't and probably won't have anytime soon

Being pernickety he's peaked just as he approaches 30.

Sorry, for some reason I still imagine Ronaldo as being 25... Don't know why

I truly believe it's nothing more complicated than being played at RB. It's actually ruined him. I'm hoping our next manager (let's face it, Zee won't last the summer) will play the guy at LB and he can return to what he was.

But that's a case of mismanagement from both Allegri and Zee wrecking something we can see capable of being way more.

Yeah, playing at RB has very obviously effected the way he plays. He's very obviously not comfortable playing there, (even if he HIMSELF says that he prefers the right)

But I think making passing errors and not being able to lift his cross past the first man (which he could do with ease last season from either side) is also down to bad form

I'd say this upcoming season is literally make or break for his career. He's been with us since 2011 and that July-November 2012 period aside has been completely insipid.

I did like his energy V Catania but he has to offer more next season than running around with a stylish mohawk.

I personally don't see the deadline as being that short.

With SES you have to take into consideration that his first season here he was just the kid pulled from Serie B with guys like Ibra, Robino, Pato, etc all ahead of him in the pecking order, that was mostly just a "feeler" season for him. Last season I don't think anyone expected him to be thrust into centre stage and suddenly become the main man for us who we solely depended for goals. But he did that. Yes he them suffered a severe downturn in form but I think that's something very natural that players tend to go through. This season was just wasted for him in terms of development.

So personally I think we'll give him a good share of time. He's young and not earning a ridiculous wage, so I don't think it's really that much of a burden for the club to give him a bit more leeway in terms of patience

[Fillipo Simone]

I know, but still. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) I'd always prefer him than the old hag that went in just because he is chums with their coach. Injuries, form, all things considered, Gomez for me will always be a better player and offer more than Klose. It might be futile, but I'm still hopeful of Portugal tearing Germany a new one in the group stage match.

What are you talking about?? I like Gomez, he's a goal scorer machine with efficiency; but I think he's part of that loser mentality. He works at his best with teams like Stuttgart or Fiorentina. While he was efficient with Bayern, he had that certain mentality that made me think he's part of the problem why Bayern can't make it to the CL top.

Klose is much more reliable then Gomez. He's a player you can depend on doing his job, staying fit and working with the team in sync.

Yes. The trend this season seems to be to favour team harmony over outright quality. Tevez, Nasri etc.

Indeed. Many similar choices made by Scolari, Löw, Prandelli, Deschamps and a few others.

[han2503]

After the fiasco France went through in the last world cup you can't really blame them for cutting out such trouble makers

[Fillipo Simone]

After the fiasco France went through in the last world cup you can't really blame them for cutting out such trouble makers

Yet, I'm a bit surprised Rami didn't make the cut. He's a good player to have around and had a solid Milan season.

[han2503]

Yet, I'm a bit surprised Rami didn't make the cut. He's a good player to have around and had a solid Milan season.

I think Rami and Mexes are honestly the best pairing France can put out, it's their loss.

Varane hasn't played much for Real as far as I can see from the matches I watched he was never playing. And Sakho was part of the worst defence in the top 4 or 5 teams in England. Liverpool conceded a lot of goals this season and from the games I watched he's not really all that solid (and I'm someone who wanted to see us sign him last summer - I think we dodged a bullet on that one)

Basically in terms of tactical awareness, footballing capabilities and purely defensive attributes, I don't see anyone on that squad sheet that comes close to Mexes or Rami, especially Mexes.

Also, I think my argument doesn't hold much weight either, I noticed Evra is in that squad, wasn't he one of the major instigators in S. Africa? Basically telling Domenech that he and a select few were on strike after Anelka was sent home

I think there's too much cultural diversity in the French squad, in clubs it's different, but in a national team I think it can easily cause problems

[kurtsimonw]

Koscielny and Varane I would start personally.

[X-Offender]

Deschamps is a tw@t anyway.

[han2503]

Koscielny and Varane I would start personally.

Koscielny can be a bit of a liability on his days as well, as for Varane, he hasn't been playing regularly this season.

[Danny]

Yet, I'm a bit surprised Rami didn't make the cut. He's a good player to have around and had a solid Milan season.

Ha! I just posted a thread about him discussing the fact I'm far from impressed by him.

That said the French national team is really poor and by THEIR standards I agree I'm surprised he didn't make it.

[Danny]

Koscielny can be a bit of a liability on his days as well, as for Varane, he hasn't been playing regularly this season.

Neither has Casillas but he'll be in goal for Spain.

[X-Offender]

Neither has Casillas but he'll be in goal for Spain.

Because Valdes got injured.