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> [NT] National Team competitions, Euro qualifying, friendlies, etc

 
Fillipo Simone
post Oct 17 2014, 10:08 AM
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QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Oct 15 2014, 05:31 PM) *
I think Serbia-Albania should be played without any fans in the stadium. Giving Albania a win would set a very dangerous precedent.

Let's just start flying Nazi flag drones over Germany home games. When they rightfully get offended and flip their ****, they get a loss.

As X-O said, it's not that simple. A Nazi flag isn't exactly the equivalent of a "Great Albania" flag, is it?

The thing with modern Serbia is, everything in their society and politics (on a higher level) is based on lies and deceptions. If the two don't work, then a third instance is used: aggression. I remember the first (football) meeting between Croatia and Yugoslavia (then) in 1999/2000. In Belgrade the atmosphere seemed unbearable, insults, chants, attacks - and then in the middle of the game the lights went out! For a full 10 or 15 minutes the whole stadium was in dark.

The saddest part of them all is that I don't see any space for rehabilitation or peaceful coexistence. The Serbian politicians chose a path of denial and aggression which will now repeat itself over and over again: first it was Croatia and Bosnia, then Slovenia, then Montenegro, then Kosovo and Albania. It's a never ending cycle of violence and - more dangerous - resentment.
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X-Offender
post Oct 17 2014, 12:38 PM
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Exactly! What I really cannot stand in all of this is the reaction of the Serbian authorities following the incident, implying that the drone was a premeditated act from our government whose objective is to destabilize the region and enforce the notion of the Great Albania.

Not only are such accusations unfounded and absolutely ludicrous, but they are actually using them as an alibi and cover-up for what in reality happened before the drone incident even took place. Instead of distancing themselves and condemning such acts, they choose to take a path of false accusations, deception and nationalistic propaganda. It's no wonder that to this day and age the majority of the Serbian population is fueled by an extremist and aggressive concept of nationalism, when they are led and governed by people who continue to advocate Milosevic-ian ideals of hatred and violence.

And to make matters worse, that absolute genius of Platini comes out in public and says "What if there was a bomb on the drone?". Dude, do you even hear yourself? Instead of making retarded assumptions, look at and analyze the facts of what really happened. I sincerely hope UEFA don't penalize us on the same scale as Serbia. It would be downright degrading, simply because we're a small country that no-one gives two shits about.
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X-Offender
post Oct 24 2014, 10:48 AM
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Serbia awarded win over Albania but docked three points by Uefa

UEFA proving once again their complete uselessness. Not only it's totally unfair giving them the 3 points, but then they deduce them altogether? So, what's the point? Might as well have re-played the game with closed doors at this rate.

We're going to appeal the decision to court. Maybe they won't have their heads up their asses like Platini and his gang of idiots.
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kurtsimonw
post Oct 25 2014, 10:30 AM
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I think it mostly comes down to the fact that, regardless of the atmosphere being nasty, the beginning of the end of the game was caused by Albania. The drone, while that can't be proven to be by Albanians (as obvious as it is), was the start of it and then the comical reaction by your #2 which IMO kicked off all the violence is why you are punished. As the instigators, you were given a 3-0 forfeit.

Serbia, though, should've had better control of their fans once the trouble did kick off. They have been deducted 3 points for that and rightfully so. You can't have fans running on to the field and attacking players, it's outrageous.

Ultimately you're both being blamed for this and have both basically been given a loss. I think the right outcome would've been to replay the game behind closed doors, but I can't say as a neutral that this is a terrible decision.
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X-Offender
post Oct 25 2014, 11:55 AM
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You can't compare the two. Yes, the drone was obviously commanded by an Albanian, but so what? In an environment full of nationalistic symbols and racist insults, why should an Albanian flag be the cause of uproar? Because Serbia is playing at home and they can do whatever they want? That's insane! And besides, yes, our #2 reacted to the flag being pulled down, but there was no violence in his reaction. Why should it be condemned?

I think you're using two different scales of judgment here, because the circumstances have made you to believe that any gesture from us in that environment should have been avoided, but that simply demonstrates the absolute ludicrous conditions we were playing in, and that's what UEFA should have penalized.

Actually, what gave Serbia the three points was our players' unwillingness to play afterwards. But would you play in such circumstances when you're violated by everyone in the stadium, including security? Six of our players had visible injuries. It was impossible to continue.

The Guardian runs a great article about yesterday's decision, I think you should all read it: http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2...et-uefa-albania
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kurtsimonw
post Oct 25 2014, 03:58 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Oct 25 2014, 12:55 PM) *
You can't compare the two. Yes, the drone was obviously commanded by an Albanian, but so what? In an environment full of nationalistic symbols and racist insults, why should an Albanian flag be the cause of uproar? Because Serbia is playing at home and they can do whatever they want? That's insane! And besides, yes, our #2 reacted to the flag being pulled down, but there was no violence in his reaction. Why should it be condemned?

I think your bias is getting the better of you here. The drone was sent to clearly cause trouble and for no other reason. I never said they can do whatever they want, which is why I said they were rightful deducted points. There was violence, there was no need for the pushing and shoving he started.

from your link

QUOTE
In a sport that has all but lost the power to shock, the sight of a remote-control drone trailing the flag of “Greater Albania” – a concept that Albanians insist is never used in modern parlance


I think, considering you had no fans in the stadium, the fact that you still managed to instigate violence is enough reason to give you the blame as well as them. I'm not saying you're all to blame, but the drone and that #2 started it.

You can't just do things that you will instigate violence. If Serbia fans are allowed to the Albania home game, I wonder how you'll react to some of the banners they'll take with them?

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Oct 25 2014, 04:02 PM
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X-Offender
post Oct 25 2014, 04:39 PM
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But you are taking those two things in the general context. Let's say that in the next Inter-Juve game a drone with a Juventus flag displaying 31 titles enters San Siro, one of the Inter players grabs it and Chiellini approaches him in the same way our #2 did. Should Juve be penalized then? No, because even though it's a clear provocation from some fan, it will end there and the game will continue.

However, in the context of Serbia-Albania that becomes punishable due to how the Serbian authorities had organized the event. See what I'm trying to say? Everything we did, at least the drone, was a provocation, but not to the extreme of being punished for it. The subsequent brawl that ensued was a mere consequence of what was going on at the stadium (the violent attitude of the fans, the political banners, the racist insults etc.).

I said after the game that night that the stadium was like a volcano about to erupt, it only needed a sparkle to start the fire. What if we had scored and celebrated in a certain way? The exact same thing would have happened, I guarantee. Should we have been penalized then too?

All of this without taking into account that (1) there is zero proof about who planned the drone (logically it was an Albanian, but since this is a decision of a juridicial nature, you can't base your decision on supposition), and (2) the drone might have very well been planned by a single person. Are you going to penalize an entire nation due to the actions of some worthless punk?

But this is all irrelevant because from what I've read UEFA gave the three points to Serbia due to our players' unwillingness to continue playing, which is crazy considering they were morally and physically hurt after what had happened.

This post has been edited by X-Offender: Oct 25 2014, 04:57 PM
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kurtsimonw
post Oct 25 2014, 04:57 PM
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I don't think there would be the same kind of reaction to a banner like that, personally.

UEFA need to do something about the next game not being played and have you never play each other again. Ridiculous they put you in the same group.
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X-Offender
post Nov 15 2014, 11:16 PM
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Tonight San Marino made history, earning their very first point in history in a Euro qualifier after drawing 0-0 against Estonia. Before they had accumulated 59 defeats in 59 games.
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Jack Bauer
post Nov 16 2014, 12:20 AM
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And yesterday Greece amazingly lost at home to Faroe Islands. Somehow it must be dst's fault.
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kurtsimonw
post Nov 16 2014, 01:45 AM
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I know it's only qualifying, but what's up with Germany? 1 draw and a defeat in 4 games. The win vs Scotland was totally undeserved and they only beat Gibraltar 4-0? There's probably Serie C teams who'd be disappointed with that result. They're not the only ones either, Holland look really bad. These are 1st and 3rd from the World Cup!

Our group is so bad. I expected much better from Slovenia and Switzerland. I thought we'd qualify, but that maybe we'd have a bit of competition for 1st place.
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dst
post Nov 16 2014, 03:08 AM
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QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Nov 16 2014, 12:20 AM) *
And yesterday Greece amazingly lost at home to Faroe Islands. Somehow it must be dst's fault.

I don't know how losing to FI is even possible.
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kurtsimonw
post Nov 16 2014, 02:07 PM
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It is a bad result, but they're not as horribly awful as a lot of the other real small nations.
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Danny
post Nov 16 2014, 02:58 PM
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QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Nov 16 2014, 01:07 PM) *
It is a bad result, but they're not as horribly awful as a lot of the other real small nations.


They kinda are. Maybe not quite San Marino but they're not far off.
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kurtsimonw
post Nov 16 2014, 03:58 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Nov 16 2014, 03:58 PM) *
They kinda are. Maybe not quite San Marino but they're not far off.

They've beaten some fairly alright teams though.

Germany seem to be backing up England on the FIFA debate. Calls for UEFA to pull out of FIFA. I think UEFA v a UEFAless FIFA... UEFA is bigger/better teams.
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