[X-Offender]

The tone in your posts the past week or so is aggressive and spiteful.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Thank you for noticing but I assure you it's just a misinterpretation from your part.

As for the current matter, just because I'm calling the French league sh*t and a joke doesn't mean I'm angry. It's my personal opinion, whether you like it or not.

[Fillipo Simone]

Everyone and their grandmas know the French league is a joke. Just ask yourself: when was the last time a French club won a European competition? For all of the 00s it was dominated by Lyon who made zero impact in Europe, then PSG came with the big bucks and established a new hegemony yet I don't think they've ever passed the quarter-finals. In-between you have the varios Marseille, Auxerre, Lille, Monaco etc. would have one good season in a decade.

To compare it to Spain, England, Italy and even Germany is ridiculous. Second-rate league indeed.

Firstly, we're not in the 00's anymore. Now the league is much more talented/talent-filled and competitive.

Secondly, take Germany. Just take out Lyon and insert Bayern. By the same arrogant logic you can say that the various Dortmund, Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, etc. teams are "in-betweeners". Because really, what's all that fuss about Dortmund? Before Klopp they were a bankrupt club that managed to do what? One title in a decade. But yeah, they won the CL in the 90s, right? Few years after...Marseille.

I don't get the dismissive logic applied here.

[X-Offender]

Firstly, we're not in the 00's anymore. Now the league is much more talented/talent-filled and competitive.

Secondly, take Germany. Just take out Lyon and insert Bayern. By the same arrogant logic you can say that the various Dortmund, Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, etc. teams are "in-betweeners". Because really, what's all that fuss about Dortmund? Before Klopp they were a bankrupt club that managed to do what? One title in a decade. But yeah, they won the CL in the 90s, right? Few years after...Marseille.

I don't get the dismissive logic applied here.

You failed to answer my question. Whether we're in the 00s or 10s matters little when the success of French clubs in Europe is almost non-existent. And it's not fair to compare the French league to the German one if you want to prove that it's not a second rate league. Compare it to England, Spain and Italy. Italy had 3 different clubs reach the final in the last 10 years, winning it twice. Engalnd and Spain likewise. This is what entails being a top league.

And even if you wanna use the Germam league as a comparison, Bayern reaches the semi-finals on a regular basis and has managed to win, Dortmund reached a final as well. This only in the last 5 years. Can we say the same about PSG and Monaco? Me thinks not.

[han2503]

I'm denying it's a second rate league, yes. I don't think Mbappe is a worse player for not having the same viewers he would in Spain.

Out of interest, is Serie A a second rate league?

Then why is it only a matter of time before he trades up and goes to Spain/England?

It's not just about viewership, that came out wrong on my part because I was trying to emphasise how Neymar's star power will be wasted in the French league.

What I think makes Ligue 1 a 2nd rate league is that the quality jump between it and England/Spain - Germany/Italy. Sure Monaco were a revelation this season, but they already lost practically half of their team and it will continue this summer and next. Here's a question, would you rather watch PSG vs Auxerre or Napoli vs Genoa for example? how many people do you know that follow Ligue 1 instead of any of the other mentioned leagues? Do you really think Neymar will drum up enough interest that people will avidly watch an entire season of PSG romping the league?

I think Serie A, like the Bundesliga is in this weird grey area hovering between being a 1st rate and 2nd rate. I think there's definitely much more intrigue/competition/interesting match ups in Italy and Germany compared to France. The problem with both leagues compared to EPL/La Liga is that Bayern and Juve are currently monopolizing their respective leagues so that gap is what keeps both from being in with the EPL/La Liga as 1st rate leagues

Everyone and their grandmas know the French league is a joke. Just ask yourself: when was the last time a French club won a European competition? For all of the 00s it was dominated by Lyon who made zero impact in Europe, then PSG came with the big bucks and established a new hegemony yet I don't think they've ever passed the quarter-finals. In-between you have the varios Marseille, Auxerre, Lille, Monaco etc. would have one good season in a decade.

To compare it to Spain, England, Italy and even Germany is ridiculous. Second-rate league indeed.

Agreed.

I think you're looking things the wrong way man. Every move out of Barcelona can be considered a move fore the moula. Moving to the EPL would be even more stupid, because Neymar isn't the type of player that would suit English football and he'd soon end up butchered by the various Stones' of the league.

However, at Barcelona he achieved everything. Won CL, won La Liga, everything. He would have always been compared to Messi who's the real boss there and never became the real star, always in a shadow.

A move to PSG makes sense. Teams like Monaco, Nice, even Marseille and Lyon show some interesting competitive signs. Saying that no one will care now that he's gone to a league "that no one watches" other then "league fans" is very simplistic. He'll be the hero of Paris, he can build a new legacy there and take a serious shot at the Champions league, something they really want (and tried) for years now. If he achieves that, he'll be a bigger star than he ever would have been at Barcelona.


I agree with Danny here, you seem to be somehow very dismissive towards the French league and you underestimate them.


Second rate league? Man, there's no question, the French league is a top league. That being said, the money lies in the English and Spanish league and will do so for some of the coming years. Does two are, what you probably call, "first tier leagues". But you got spoiled by those standards.

You make good points about Neymar maybe wanting another challenge after winning all he could with Barca, but I disagree about PSG being the correct one. it is simply a step down for him career wise. And sure at Barca he could only make a sideways move, but that's the thing with moving to a big club at such a young age.

Footballing wise and commercially it's a step back for him, no two ways about it.

How is Ligue 1 a top league? It's not just about money, the footballing aspect also is a big reason why it's not a top league.

Firstly, we're not in the 00's anymore. Now the league is much more talented/talent-filled and competitive.

Secondly, take Germany. Just take out Lyon and insert Bayern. By the same arrogant logic you can say that the various Dortmund, Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, etc. teams are "in-betweeners". Because really, what's all that fuss about Dortmund? Before Klopp they were a bankrupt club that managed to do what? One title in a decade. But yeah, they won the CL in the 90s, right? Few years after...Marseille.

I don't get the dismissive logic applied here.

Like I said to Danny, there are distinct qualities which make Bundesliga and Serie A much better leagues than Ligue 1.

[Fillipo Simone]

Look guys, this discussion is pretty simple. You say La Liga and the EPL are top tier leagues. Agreed. But that doesn't automatically make every other league trash and sh@t. It's like saying Pepsi Cola is junk because their revenue and worldwide network isn't half as profitable as Coca Cola. Now, I see, the French league isn't Pepsi Cola either in this story, maybe Dr. Pepper's or who knows what.

But unleashing all the wrath of this world towards PSG and the French league won't help. And simply stating the obvious - repeating La Liga and EPL are top notch whereas others are steps back isn't helping the situation football is in. It's been long since the game turned into a Barcelona - Madrid festival with Bayern being the third wheel.

@han

I understand how you can say that Bundesliga might be a grey zone league simply out of economic perspective. But all other arguments fall into the same category - sentiment. You say the Bundesliga has far more attractive matches going on? In what terms? All up to discussion and all very subjective points. One can say the German clubs have better players and more expensive one, the other that the French have historically more significant teams, derbies and more rough talent.

You say Neymar joining PSG was a mistake. So, what would be a good choice to you? Arsenal? Citeh? Real Madrid?

[Fillipo Simone]

You failed to answer my question. Whether we're in the 00s or 10s matters little when the success of French clubs in Europe is almost non-existent. And it's not fair to compare the French league to the German one if you want to prove that it's not a second rate league. Compare it to England, Spain and Italy. Italy had 3 different clubs reach the final in the last 10 years, winning it twice. Engalnd and Spain likewise. This is what entails being a top league.

And even if you wanna use the Germam league as a comparison, Bayern reaches the semi-finals on a regular basis and has managed to win, Dortmund reached a final as well. This only in the last 5 years. Can we say the same about PSG and Monaco? Me thinks not.

What's your question? Is Ligue 1 a top-tier league? Yes and no. If you take some factors in consideration only EPL and La Liga turn out to be top tier leagues at the moment. But if you take other aspects like history/tradition into consideration, the French league is up there with Serie A and the Buli at the top.

We can't say the same for any other club in the world. That's why Neymar's move makes perfect sense. It's a good push into a direction that makes "balance of power" slightly more possible.

[han2503]

Official: Neymar has bought out his Barca contract

[han2503]

Look guys, this discussion is pretty simple. You say La Liga and the EPL are top tier leagues. Agreed. But that doesn't automatically make every other league trash and sh@t. It's like saying Pepsi Cola is junk because their revenue and worldwide network isn't half as profitable as Coca Cola. Now, I see, the French league isn't Pepsi Cola either in this story, maybe Dr. Pepper's or who knows what.

But unleashing all the wrath of this world towards PSG and the French league won't help. And simply stating the obvious - repeating La Liga and EPL are top notch whereas others are steps back isn't helping the situation football is in. It's been long since the game turned into a Barcelona - Madrid festival with Bayern being the third wheel.

@han

I understand how you can say that Bundesliga might be a grey zone league simply out of economic perspective. But all other arguments fall into the same category - sentiment. You say the Bundesliga has far more attractive matches going on? In what terms? All up to discussion and all very subjective points. One can say the German clubs have better players and more expensive one, the other that the French have historically more significant teams, derbies and more rough talent.

You say Neymar joining PSG was a mistake. So, what would be a good choice to you? Arsenal? Citeh? Real Madrid?

Well let's put it this way

If La Liga/EPLA are the Ferrari or the footballing world for me Italy Germany are the Mercedes Benz while the French league is just a tricked out BMW 3 Series.

Ligue 1 has always been a feeder league to the others. That's what makes it a step down. Neymar is mostly looking at the financial gains he'll be getting but overall this is a step back for him as he won't get the exposure I'm sure he craves in France.

For me, I'd rather watch Dortmund v Wolfsburg than Monaco v Lille and I'm sure many have the same sentiment considering the viewership of the 2 leagues

[Fishdoll]

Well, I'd rather watch Dortmund v Schalke, but yeah. I enjoy the Bundesliga (second to Serie A for me in terms of personal enjoyment). I tend to ignore the English league and will watch Liga games that don't include teams with 'Madrid' or 'Barcelona' in their names.

Meanwhile, during the game just now, PSG announced Neymar.

[Danny]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Thank you for noticing but I assure you it's just a misinterpretation from your part.

As for the current matter, just because I'm calling the French league sh*t and a joke doesn't mean I'm angry. It's my personal opinion, whether you like it or not.

'Sh*t and a joke'.

Wow. You're one of the most reasonable guys on here but this is one occasion where such qualities are curiously absent.

But we move on.

[Danny]

I don't get the dismissive logic applied here.

It's reminding me of the (rightful) arrogance of the 90s and 00s Serie A fans had about all other leagues because it was clearly the best.

Now it isn't, but the opinion of other leagues seems to remain. Odd.

[Danny]

You failed to answer my question. Whether we're in the 00s or 10s matters little when the success of French clubs in Europe is almost non-existent.

It took a miracle goal in the final second to put PSG out last season in the last 16, and a robust Juve defence to deny Monaco in the semi final.

Can't quite see how all this qualifies as a joke when your superior EPL didn't even do as well as this but each to their own

[X-Offender]

What's your question? Is Ligue 1 a top-tier league? Yes and no. If you take some factors in consideration only EPL and La Liga turn out to be top tier leagues at the moment. But if you take other aspects like history/tradition into consideration, the French league is up there with Serie A and the Buli at the top.

We can't say the same for any other club in the world. That's why Neymar's move makes perfect sense. It's a good push into a direction that makes "balance of power" slightly more possible.

My question was: when was the last time a French side won a European competition? Can you please answer that for me?

'Sh*t and a joke'.

Wow. You're one of the most reasonable guys on here but this is one occasion where such qualities are curiously absent.

But we move on.

Oh dear me. How does me saying that the French league is sh*t and a joke demonstrate that I am angry? It's an OPINION, Danny. Your logic is not very sound.

It took a miracle goal in the final second to put PSG out last season in the last 16, and a robust Juve defence to deny Monaco in the semi final.

Can't quite see how all this qualifies as a joke when your superior EPL didn't even do as well as this but each to their own

Did PSG and Monaco win the Champions League? No. That's all that matters. Don't make me repeat the question I've been making to Fillipo over and over again.

ManU won the Europa League in the meanwhile...

[Danny]

I'd rather Milan get to the UCL last 16 than win the UEL. UEL is worthless.

[Fillipo Simone]

My question was: when was the last time a French side won a European competition? Can you please answer that for me?




Oh dear me. How does me saying that the French league is sh*t and a joke demonstrate that I am angry? It's an OPINION, Danny. Your logic is not very sound.



Did PSG and Monaco win the Champions League? No. That's all that matters. Don't make me repeat the question I've been making to Fillipo over and over again.

ManU won the Europa League in the meanwhile...

Man, I don't get your tone here really. You say over and over again you've asked me something we already know. But the truth is, even if the last CL win by a French team was in 1899, I'd still be saying the Ligue 1 is a good league nowadays.

Sure, winning silverware is a important criteria. You can argue that the Spaniards are better then the English in that department, Italy better then Germany etc. But is it, like you say, "all that matters"? I don't think so. And you're just making excuses here X-O, I'm sorry but you are. You obviously jumped the gun and used words like "shite" and "joke", vastly underrating the league we were talking about. Sure, it's your opinion and you can put it in words you like, but you ain't usually the one who jumps in and names things in that manner.