[KillerMax]

I'm trying to say that your already defining his ability from one game.  That is wrong give him 2 seasons, if he doesn't cut then let him go.  The word fantastic for me is what Kaka has been doing.  I dont recall gourcuff coming on and all of a sudden the tides change.  Of course he is a great talent, and at 20 he is doing well.  I just dont think your giving grimi enough time.

Again, WRONG. I can remember two games where Gourcuff came on and made a huge difference. And again 2 goals + 5 assists while playing very rarely tells me that you probably haven't watch all Milan games this season. I have and I can say with confidence that Gourcuff was great for us this season even though he didn't get enough chances.

[han2503]

That was 1 mistake, what about Dida's howler that gave them the 1st goal in that game? how many has he made but he's still the no.1 goalkeeper! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) And I didn't say I'd play Brocchi against Liverpool just that a lot of people underestimate him  (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

We have no one better then Dida, but in Brocchi's cae we have 2 players that are clearly better than him, that's why I wouldn't risk any of the other 2 in case one of them got injured and we are stuck with Brocchi playing in the Final.

Brocchi is good, against Catania and Udinese, but not good enough to be in a CL semi or final. Dida's situation can't be compared since there is no one that could take his place if he makes mistakes he's always assured of his starting spot.

Mourinho first season with Porto -> last 16
Mourinho second season with Porto -> UEFA Cup winners (Won the treble this year)
Mourinho 3rd season with Porto -> CL winners (Won double + Cup runners up)
Mourinho first season with Chelsea -> Semi final
Mourinho second season with Chelsea -> last 16
Mourinho third season with Chelsea -> semi final

I'd say that's as good as Carlo's. I'm not saying Carlo is bad, since he's clearly one of the top 5 in the world. I just think Mourinho is number 1. Remembering he's done great with POrto, hardly a European force nowadays.

To me Carlo's EUROPEAN record is better imo. In fact no other coaches record is as good as Carlo's in the last five years. Making it far in the EUFA cup and making it far in the CL are 2 completely different things

@ han: Grimi had an OK game? Maybe you could say that in the first half, but what I saw in the second half told me, exactly, everything I need to know about him as a player. I play for a division 1 team here in the US and I see clowns like him only in the lower divisions. An average player should know better to not go Karate on every ball when he is frustrated. And he is playing for Milan's starting 11 in this match and I'm going absolutely nuts as to WHY?????

As I previously pointed out, he had a good game in the first half, even one of the commentators kept praising him for how he was playing during the first half.

But then he made that mistake where he gave the ball away in a dangerous area and his head went down and he kept making mistakes from then on. You should cut the kid some slack, it's not like he's a seasoned pro. He just let things get to him.

People on here keep yelling about wanting youngsters and bla bla bla, but then when one is brought in and makes mistakes because he is inexperianced and new to the high level of play in such a league they want him out because he is complete garbage (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[kurtsimonw]

The fact is half of these weren't even reserves, they were youth players.

We should have accepted defeat before it kicked off, Udinese are a very good side.

If you're expecting for your youth/reserves team to be able to cope fully with a decent side, you have to be kidding yourself.

Just look at the Catania side that drew last week?

I'd say a draw at Catania is almost as bad, if not as bad as, losing at home to Udinese, especially considering the line-ups we had.

If our best team can't beat Catania, our reserve/youth team shouldn't come close to Udinese.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: May 20 2007, 10:46 AM

[Rossoneri7]

The fact is half of these weren't even reserves, they were youth players.

We should have accepted defeat before it kicked off, Udinese are a very good side.

If you're expecting for your youth/reserves team to be able to cope fully with a decent side, you have to be kidding yourself.

Just look at the Catania side that drew last week?

I'd say a draw at Catania is almost as bad, if not as bad as, losing at home to Udinese, especially considering the line-ups we had.

If our best team can't beat Catania, our reserve/youth team shouldn't come close to Udinese.

U r comparing Milan to a middle table team (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

If Milan dont make it to 1st or 2nd place, then it doesnt matter if they come in 3rd or 4th !!

Because Milan would already have their sights on the CL (Exactly like in 03) .. Comparing Catania to our first team, there is no comparison. But when u look at how our team dissmanteled the champions of ENgland for 90 full minutes. You would think that it is only logical that the team would be burned out, unlike a fresh Catania (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) Who, on any good day, Milan would b1tch slap home and away (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/king.gif)


p.s. The problem here is that Milan reached it's onjective (4th place) and secured it, so once secured, nothing else matters. They could go on loosing even the game against Reggina. I wouldnt be surprised if Carlo told the team to take their vacation after the CL final and gave the reserves anotehr go at first team football against Reggina. Why ? Because Milan will still be in 4th place even if they lose.

But if we were in contention for 1st place; please take a look at the closing games of last season and the ones before (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) You'll see Milan on 2 fronts the CL and Serie A. NO TEAM CAN DO THAT CONSISTENTLY (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[kurtsimonw]

U r comparing Milan to a middle table team  (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

No but if our reserves played a season in Serie A, they would finish mid-table. Below Udinese for sure, they've just had an unlucky year.

[milanista1899]

this upcoming final is going to be the most important game I can remember!!

That's because it will be the most important game in Milan's history! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (either way!... I'm so nervous!) All eyes on Liverpool. (well soon...i'm still not done here! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) )

[milanista1899]

Exactly.

We were playing at the San Siro for God's sake. It was Billy last game for us. It was a chance for all these youngsters show Ancelotti and the crew why they should be considered to play for Milan's Serie A team.

@ han: Grimi had an OK game? Maybe you could say that in the first half, but what I saw in the second half told me, exactly, everything I need to know about him as a player. I play for a division 1 team here in the US and I see clowns like him only in the lower divisions. An average player should know better to not go Karate on every ball when he is frustrated. And he is playing for Milan's starting 11 in this match and I'm going absolutely nuts as to WHY?????

Oliveira is I think trying to stay here for next year. The way he is "playing" right now, means we won't get any good enough offers for him not to lose money. So we would have to keep him. And that's pathetic. Either this or he is sh1t.

Storari? He played for us two times and look how many we conceded. A goalkeeper's job is not to only save shots, but to organize the defense as well. Dida and Kalac do that well. Storari has no idea such thing exists.

And instead showed why they shouldn't be (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Yea I think he'd been watching tapes of Cantona & Matrix (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Yea, me too (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I know it's so sad - a catch 22 situation! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Yea that's a good point! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

This post has been edited by milanista1899: May 20 2007, 08:43 PM

[milanista1899]

About oli and storari i agree.  About grimi i dont.  First of all he is an Argentinian player and they play a completely different game than Italians do.  There game is all about fast paced flank and hit and cross.  They don't have any idea of what playing a conservative game means.  Secondly he is 21, not many LB in the world are up to sergio or janku standards at 21.  Udinese is not a sh!tty Italian team that we are insulting. Also  It's his first serie A game so you shouldn't expect him to go in playing the same as everyone else.  Confidence is a major thing, which will develop for him in time.  Milan as a club have the tendency to buy experienced players and we go for the occasional young talent.  Out of all the left backs in the world at his age, he got chosen.  He isn't even Italian, so that means there is something in him that has caught the eye of galliani and co.  Just wait till Paolo and billy teach him how to play in the defense properly, he'll become one of the best.  I predict a great future for him.  Bonera, everyone said was garbage at the beginning of the season, but as time went and he was shown how to defend properly by maldini and co., he has developed into a half decent defender.  So my question is to you, why are you praising gourcuff so much and cutting alot of other players, when all gourcuff has done was pretty much come off the bench and just watch the game.  You may argue he scored 2 goals, well the first was all kaka so if he had missed that would be sad.  The second one was clearly boriello's goal which fell into his grasp.  Just cause he can move like cronaldo doesn't prove anything.  For a first game I'm glad that grimi had the confidence to preform like he did in the first half, and I'm looking forward to more than 1 appearance next year.

We already have Oddo, Cafu, Janku, Sergio, even Favalli & Paolo have been known to do that!

He sounds like Coloccini and we know what happened to/with him! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I don't expect him to be up to Sergio or Janku's standard, that's why I don't get why he played. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

We can't wait for him to learn off Paolo & Billy, we don't have that long!

Meanwhile he's wasting his career when he could be playing elsewhere. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

You can't seriously be comparing Grimi to Bonera? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

In that case, nothing personal but I hope you'll be disappointed (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

This post has been edited by milanista1899: May 20 2007, 09:01 PM

[milanista1899]

I'm trying to say that your already defining his ability from one game.  That is wrong give him 2 seasons, if he doesn't cut then let him go.  The word fantastic for me is what Kaka has been doing.  I dont recall gourcuff coming on and all of a sudden the tides change.  Of course he is a great talent, and at 20 he is doing well.  I just dont think your giving grimi enough time.

I'm not, I've seen him play in more than 1 game (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

If you think a team like Milan are gonna wait for 2 seasons for a player like that, you've got another thing coming!

Yes Kaka has been fantastic (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/king.gif)

So then you don't recall him coming on as a sub for his CL debut & scoring that great header that gave us the 3 points (to name just one occasion)? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Like pKillerMax said we've seen all we need to know (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[milanista1899]

We have no one better then Dida, but in Brocchi's cae we have 2 players that are clearly better than him, that's why I wouldn't risk any of the other 2 in case one of them got injured and we are stuck with Brocchi playing in the Final.

Brocchi is good, against Catania and Udinese, but not good enough to be in a CL semi or final. Dida's situation can't be compared since there is no one that could take his place if he makes mistakes he's always assured of his starting spot.
To me Carlo's EUROPEAN record is better imo. In fact no other coaches record is as good as Carlo's in the last five years. Making it far in the EUFA cup and making it far in the CL are 2 completely different things
As I previously pointed out, he had a good game in the first half, even one of the commentators kept praising him for how he was playing during the first half.

But then he made that mistake where he gave the ball away in a dangerous area and his head went down and he kept making mistakes from then on. You should cut the kid some slack, it's not like he's a seasoned pro. He just let things get to him.

People on here keep yelling about wanting youngsters and bla bla bla, but then when one is brought in and makes mistakes because he is inexperianced and new to the high level of play in such a league they want him out because he is complete garbage  (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

About Dida, before that game I was hoping to see Kalac instead (wouldn't you say he was an alternative?). Everyone was talking about how VDS might be dodgy and how if we had a few shots from long distance, 1 might go in. But I was more concerned with Dida and he proved me right in that game. However since the return leg he's been great, as good as the last time we won the CL against Giuve. The one thing that stood out was the way the crowd applauded him any time he was near the ball - this made a massive difference to his confidence and has been solid ever since (as far as I can remember/as far as I've seen). And I hope he'll do the same for us in the final (it's a shame we can't have as many fans behind us as we did against Man. Utd in every game!)

You repeated your statement about Brocchi being good enough against Catania & Udinese but not for the Final so I'll repeat that I wouldn't have played Rino or Ambro in his place for yesterday's game. I think he might be on the bench in Athens and would consider him good enough to come on if need be (please don't repeat that he made that error at OT as a reason he shouldn't play in the final or I'll repeat that it was just 1 mistake again (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) )

I'm not one of the people who keep yelling about wanting youngsters though! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[milanista1899]

The fact is half of these weren't even reserves, they were youth players.

We should have accepted defeat before it kicked off, Udinese are a very good side.

If you're expecting for your youth/reserves team to be able to cope fully with a decent side, you have to be kidding yourself.

Just look at the Catania side that drew last week?

I'd say a draw at Catania is almost as bad, if not as bad as, losing at home to Udinese, especially considering the line-ups we had.

If our best team can't beat Catania, our reserve/youth team shouldn't come close to Udinese.

That's what I'm objecting to. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

A team like Milan should never accept defeat - before or during any game!

I don't expect a youth team side to cope fully with a decent side (who I'll admit I underestimated because of their motivation to win the game - which was what exactly? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) they had nothing to play for! - I've never seen Udinese that fired up or playing that well before (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) )

As Rossoneri7 says the Catania game was down to tiredness. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[milanista1899]

U r comparing Milan to a middle table team  (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

If Milan dont make it to 1st or 2nd place, then it doesnt matter if they come in 3rd or 4th !!

Because Milan would already have their sights on the CL (Exactly like in 03) .. Comparing Catania to our first team, there is no comparison. But when u look at how our team dissmanteled the champions of ENgland for 90 full minutes. You would think that it is only logical that the team would be burned out, unlike a fresh Catania (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) Who, on any good day, Milan would b1tch slap home and away (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/king.gif)
p.s. The problem here is that Milan reached it's onjective (4th place) and secured it, so once secured, nothing else matters. They could go on loosing even the game against Reggina. I wouldnt be surprised if Carlo told the team to take their vacation after the CL final and gave the reserves anotehr go at first team football against Reggina. Why ? Because Milan will still be in 4th place even if they lose.

But if we were in contention for 1st place; please take a look at the closing games of last season and the ones before (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)   You'll see Milan on 2 fronts the CL and Serie A. NO TEAM CAN DO THAT CONSISTENTLY (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

To me it does!

Maybe I'm the only one here who cares about justice!

In '03 we weren't wrongly penalised by 8 points for something we didn't even do!( (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) )

Then Milan's objective and mine are 2 different things! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

I don't know much about Lazio's involvement in Calciopoli but at one stage weren't they facing relegation? then to only have 3 points deducted is a joke! (one that I don't find funny!) (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

It wouldn't surprise me either, not after yesterday where we showed a lack of disrespect to Udinese, ourselves our fans and to serie A! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Bluesummers]

Again, WRONG. I can remember two games where Gourcuff came on and made a huge difference. And again 2 goals + 5 assists while playing very rarely tells me that you probably haven't watch all Milan games this season. I have and I can say with confidence that Gourcuff was great for us this season even though he didn't get enough chances.

I missed only the first two games of the season, that was due to my cable provider lacking brains. I've seen every other match but i have to say that the hype that was given to gourcuff was alot higher than it should have been. People were comparing him to zizou and some were even comparing him to messi. I'm not saying he isn't good, he is terrific but not as high as some his age such as messi fabregas or rooney.

[milanista1899]

But if we were in contention for 1st place; please take a look at the closing games of last season and the ones before (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)   You'll see Milan on 2 fronts the CL and Serie A. NO TEAM CAN DO THAT CONSISTENTLY (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Well certainly not with the youth team anyway! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Yes we were in contention for 1st place both times and if it wasn't for Juve cheating and Moratti-Guido Rossi (in my opinion illegally!) phone tapping, the media, Moggi & the court making up stories & lies, taking everything out of context & blowing things out of all proportion - (mud sticks!) then we would have won them both (probably this one too!) - and on the field of play, merda! (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[Bluesummers]

We already have Oddo, Cafu, Janku, Sergio, even Favalli & Paolo have been known to do that!

He sounds like Coloccini and we know what happened to/with him!  (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I don't expect him to be up to Sergio or Janku's standard, that's why I don't get why he played.  (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

We can't wait for him to learn off Paolo & Billy, we don't have that long!

Meanwhile he's wasting his career when he could be playing elsewhere.  (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

You can't seriously be comparing Grimi to Bonera?  (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)   (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

In that case, nothing personal but I hope you'll be disappointed  (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Bonera is 25-26. Grimi is 21-22. That is 4 years difference. I just can't believe that you expect him to come from an entire different league and automatically adjust like everyone else within one season and only playing one Italian "SERIE A" game. The other game was against a maltanese team, which no offense to han cannot be compared with udinese. He did great in the first half and at least deserves another season from my point of view. Some confidence and a little bit of help from the greats and he will develop. It was billy's last game i know it must be difficult for you guys to have to accept defeat, but in no way is carlo gonna contemplate CL final and retirement in the same sentence. Billy's last game in the san siro was great and he scored a penalty. I dont look at this game when i think of billy. I hope you guys also forget it too. Even though we lost, i'm fine with it. Onto CL.