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Posted by: han2503 Oct 20 2013, 01:55 PM

Well here it is, it feels like we're stuck in this loop constantly playing these whining divers.

Balo is out most likely so personally I'd rather see us NOT using a striker. Matri will be a huge liability here. When he's on the pitch it feels like we're a man down and we can't have that here. Last season we did so well because Pazzo terrorised the sh!t out of Puyol and Pique. Matri won't do that, so I'd rather go for Kaka starting as a fake 9 sort of with Birsa and Robinho behind him to provide cover for the midfielders as well.

Or if Kaka isn't fit to start Robinho starts as the striker with Birsa and Poli in behind him and Monto, De Jong plus Nocerino or Muntari () in midfield. We need someone strong on that left side who'll help Constant double up, maybe even Urby as I don't trust Muntari to help out defensively

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 20 2013, 02:44 PM

My line-up:

Christmass tree.

With De Jong back and Poli in great shape, Monto has to be moved to the left. His work rate and defensive abilities are far superior to those of both Muntari and Nocerino. Allegri uses him no problem in front of the defense, why can't he also play him alongside Poli and De Jong? It's by far the best possible midfield we can play.

As for the attack, I'd go with Kaká and Birsa behind Matri. We need someone who can hold the ball against Barça. If Matri could do just that it would free up spaces for Kaká and Birsa to use and for Poli's insertions. Plus we'd practically be playing with a 5-man midfield, which is necessary against Barça.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 20 2013, 04:24 PM

Sorry, but can't agree with Matri starting this one. He can't even do something as simple as hold up the ball and lay it off against a team like Udine. He messed up each pass, each touch and each shot he made yesterday. It was simply like playing with 10 men on the pitch. And to drop Robinho to keep this guy in there is just not right. Robinho is easily one of our most in form players so far this season. Plus he works hard and drops into midfield when necessary Matri just walks around complaining and looking at the sky 95% of the time. He never even bothers to track back and help out when we're not in possession.

I'd go



Also, I think I'd go weith Silvestre instead of Zapata. He's a huge aerial threat. He'd be useful for us should we get set-piece opportunities, plus, I don't trust Zapata atm.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 20 2013, 04:29 PM

Yeah, I knew you'd disagree about Matri. I just can't see Robinho as CF. But I guess we could also play an attack line where nobody holds a fixed position. It'd be more dynamic and all.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 20 2013, 04:32 PM

Yeah that's what I meant, obviously Robinho won't be a CF in that, we don't really need a CF anyway, I'd rather crowd that midfield and hit them on breaks, and those 3 upfront would be able to do that

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 20 2013, 04:56 PM

Would be good against the sides in the top 10. Would also be good as an away formation. At home, I think we'd be stuck.

We don't have a spine yet. We are working on it, but it isn't there yet.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 20 2013, 05:54 PM

But we won't be playing like we're at home in this game, we'll be playing like we're the away side, and this is just a solution for just one game.

Balo could be back for the next Serie A game, Kaka also should be fit for that.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 20 2013, 06:22 PM

You know, with Honda we could also play a Christmas tree formation with him and Kaká behind Balo. Doesn't sound too shabby. But as long as Poli, Monto and De Jong are played in midfield.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 20 2013, 06:27 PM

It does sound good in theory. The problem is we have too many strikers.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 20 2013, 06:29 PM

With the amount of time Allegri takes to drill the team into a new formation! I'd be worried about doing anything new.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 20 2013, 06:29 PM

They can all go clean the toilets or something, except for Pazzini and maybe El Shaarawy.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 20 2013, 06:29 PM

True

Posted by: han2503 Oct 20 2013, 06:35 PM

I'd personally like to see us go for a 4-2-3-1

1st team:


2nd team:


The only real issues in terms of subs/2nd string are the DM position if De Jong is out and the RB position.

Guys who do not have any space in this side when everyone is fit are Matri, Niang, Zaccardo, either one of Nocerino or Muntari and Urby

I think all of these guys should go in January. Bring in a proper RB substitute and someone to cover for De Jong and we're set imo

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 20 2013, 06:45 PM

^ That makes too much sense, so forget about it.

Posted by: il_diavolo_mtl Oct 20 2013, 07:06 PM

agreed, Robinho with the ball runs more towards our net then the opponant's...

Matri as a Supporting Target man holding up play may open things for Kaka and Valter. That being said, **** is he useless around the box...

Posted by: Linkman Oct 21 2013, 06:11 PM

To think Milan actually has all those players.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 21 2013, 07:03 PM

Balo is in the squad for this game.

Amelia, Coppola, Andrenacci (N.60), Abate, Constant, Mexes, Silvestre, Zaccardo, Zapata, Birsa, De Jong, Emanuelson, Kaka, Montolivo, Muntari, Nocerino, Poli, Balotelli, Matri and Robinho.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 21 2013, 07:09 PM

If Balo can play from the start, I'd go with:

Posted by: han2503 Oct 21 2013, 07:29 PM

It's a fairly deep squad which has a lot of talent. For anyone to say otherwise, or that we're inferior to any team aside from Juve and maybe Napoli in the league is just ridiculous.


Great news, hopefully it's not another case of rushing a player back


I'd rather go



I think that would give us a bit more stability in midfield.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 21 2013, 09:34 PM

Allegri: "Poli has been very good so far but if Muntari is fit he will play alongside Montolivo and De Jong".

Of course Muntari will play you disgraceful c*nt...

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 21 2013, 09:36 PM

Balo and Kaká will start from the bench. (More than) probable line-up:



So, any predictions on the result? I say 3-0 for Barça.

Posted by: Danny Oct 21 2013, 09:55 PM

Last time we played them I told every b*gger on here if we set out with the right tactics, we would win. We won. Away leg different story but hey.

This time no matter what tactics we try, we're getting absolutely killed. We do not have the defensive shape, nor the midfield to cope with Barca.

The best we can do is 11 men behind the ball, pray for a counter or two and that we can keep the score down.

I'll be the first to admit it if I got this wrong, and equally the first to be a complete @ss and point out I told you so if I get it right.

I want to be wrong so so badly.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 21 2013, 10:14 PM

I think this is the cheapest shot to "prove you're right" you've EVER made. Biggest easy prediction ever.

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Oct 22 2013, 12:54 AM

I say at least 6!

Posted by: Zed.D Oct 22 2013, 08:03 AM

Muntari is the new Seedorf. no offense to Seedorf, I'm not actually compaing the two. but watching Zee in his last seasons had become unbearable, save for a few games every once in a while where he stepped up. he played when he didn't deserve to, now it's the same story with Muntari. why the hell would you want to play a freakin' snail against Barca anyway?

Nah, Poli will start. Max can't be that stupid, can he?

Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 22 2013, 09:12 AM

Rhetorical question.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 09:24 AM

This comment here embodies all that is wrong with Allegri. Why would anyone who wants what's best for the team want this idiot to start? He nearly cost us the game against a terrible Udinese who aside from a free-kick had not created anything before that. The guy is a huge liability yet he's "favourite" to start. Just goes to show how much merit is not something that Allegri basis his decisions on

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 22 2013, 10:47 AM

Against Barca, I think Muntari to start might not be such a stupid option. Poli is no Seedorf in terms of tactical intelligence and the only other option besides Muntari is Urby. I'm guessing Poli will only come on later in the game.

Let's not be under any misunderstanding. We are not setting out to win. Already our great and courageous captain made it clear in his press interview. " A group stage or a knock-out game is the same thing but we are not playing for our qualification tomorrow."

I hate this attitude.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 11:06 AM

People have a common misconception of thinking Muntari is a "defensive" player, but that could not be more far from the truth. He spends more time level with the strikers than anyone else in that midfield, he's an idiot tactically and in everything else he does. I can only assume zed compared him to Seedorf because of their identical lazy jogging around.

He makes terrible passing decisions, doesn't help out his FB, shoots constantly, takes too much time on the ball and loses it countless times in a match, makes idiotic tackles and does not work hard for the team

Poli is more of a creative, passer type player but he also works his @ss off.

Posted by: Danny Oct 22 2013, 11:49 AM

You're robably right. So let us both pray we're wrong eh?

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 11:57 AM

Meh, I think this is beyond praying

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 12:04 PM

It looks like my preferred line-up (minus Mintari) is going to be used.

Thankfully the ghost of Matri won't start. Robinho and Birsa will need to work their @sses of ala what SES and Prince did last season at home. They need to help the midfield out and form a 4-5-1 setup to help double up with the FBs or cover the spaces Muntari and Monto leave behind when they get dragged wide to help the FBs out

Posted by: acid911 Oct 22 2013, 01:00 PM

Say what? Nothing is beyond praying. And besides, we'll win this one easy, dude, if Barcelona plays its scardy game again. They almost always do when they come to San Siro, they are just intimidated by the occasion, the stadium and our history. If they do not take pressure, though, we will be lucky to get a draw.

I'm more confident in us getting a 2-0 win than UEFArcelona slotting 6 into our net. What do we have to lose, anyway?

Posted by: Danny Oct 22 2013, 01:29 PM

If we get a good attendance for this one and chant Meeeelaaaan a lot along with the other songs in our repertoire, it's possible we could intimidate them. Still can't see anything other than a loss though.

It's why they struggle at Parkhead.

Pity my Twitter TL is filled with Rangers fans talking about Celtic

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 22 2013, 01:31 PM

Poli works his @ss off, but he's also defensively better than Muntari. This is what bugs me the most. It's not the same as when we had Boateng and Allegri couldn't play him in midfield cos he was tactically undisciplined. Poli is a beast. He's the new Marchisio. He can do everything and anything, and playing him alongside Monto and De Jong is simply ideal.

F*ck Allegri and his idiotic decisions. When the f*ck will we finally see the back of this guy for good? Argh...



Nice troll.

Posted by: Danny Oct 22 2013, 01:40 PM

I had no idea Messi, Neymar, Iniesta and Xavi were all fit and would start.

We have less than zero chance of even drawing this.

Posted by: Linkman Oct 22 2013, 02:25 PM

While I honestly don't see us winning, I'm hoping for a very dignified display. And maybe if we're lucky...

Posted by: acid911 Oct 22 2013, 02:28 PM

Yeah, I would actually have preferred Balo having a bigger say on proceedings. But I am fairly confident Allegri will be in his trademark mood today, and we will have the team play the same game they played against Barcelona home leg last time around, and against Juventus.

Winning or drawing this isn't in our hands, but it will come down to just how well Barcelona players settling into the match. If they are mentally intimated, we have a chance. And you have to consider, this isn't exactly a do or die, knockout match for either team. So even if the divers are briefly unsettled, it will be an even playing field.

And that brings me to the field thing, remember how they complained about the pitch last time around. And not to mention these other big clubs are (wrongly, at that) intimated by our glorious history. No one wants to be humiliated 0-4 at San Siro so they play at gear three or four max. Unless it's a high intensity knockout fixture.

Our team sheet is less than ideal, but my mood for the match is more than ideal. This isn't the same Barcelona of old, it's a dieing team. And besides, like I said, what do we have to lose? We have no chemistry, no tactics, no set game plan, no identity, no Balotelli, no DeScig, no ambition, no nothing!

I expect a slobber knocker, either way. The Barcelona players probably know they are in for a hard time from top to bottom - fans to pitch, that is. That's not to say they do not have the ability to rip us a new one, but the match is far from a foregone conclusion, my point being.


Why, thank you! It's all facts, figures and falsehood rolled into one sweet post.

Posted by: Linkman Oct 22 2013, 03:19 PM

Finally! That's the spirit! Forza Milan!

Facts in order to get pumped up:

- We have yet to lose in this edition of the UCL.
- Barcelona just dropped points last weekend, while we had a blistering victory.
- We have Kaká back!
- Victor Valdés is a liability!
- Messi is reported to be a giant douche in the dressing room and there's a chance Neymar might injure him on purpose.
- Xavi is already 33 years old. He just can't compete physically with the likes of Muntari.

Posted by: Danny Oct 22 2013, 03:51 PM

What's the state of play with Mario anyway? How serious is his injury?



Barca have previous for bitching about pitches, stadiums, tactics - when they lose or draw, of course. When they win there's not a word...



It's not the Barca of old, but they have got the magic trio tonight plus the increasingly mercurial Neymar. Truth is they're not really any worse, it's just they get figured out more. Still stuck 4 easily enough past Ajax, and top of their league with only 2 dropped points. It's not so much they're worse than they used to be, it's more than the rest of Europe, Bayern especially, caught up, went past, you name it.



Your optimism refreshes and cleanses me like a babbling mountain stream, brother.

Posted by: acid911 Oct 22 2013, 04:08 PM

Cheers, pal. Die trying, if not, then die laughing, that's my motto!

Posted by: acid911 Oct 22 2013, 04:14 PM

Cheers, my man! Hope for a quality hour and half later today, it not a good time. The only thing that would disappoint me would be a lack of effort from our players. If I see that, if I see the desire, then all is forgiven. I'm keeping an eye out for a 0-3 drubbing, as much as I am looking forward to a 3-1 win.

Because, really, if you're not enjoying it, then what's the point? Same goes for everything in life!

Posted by: Ry4n Oct 22 2013, 04:33 PM

It's going to be a special night hopefully we can grab a draw a win would be a dream though unlikely but its football its why we watch it.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 22 2013, 06:51 PM

Playing without a striker against Barca? It's like we want them to win.

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Oct 22 2013, 06:52 PM

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 07:02 PM

And what would playing Matri say about us then? Balo isn't fit to start, so it's either this or Matri...

Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 22 2013, 07:19 PM

Someone to play on the shoulder. The 3 we have will drop deep because that's their natural game, we have no out ball or nothing for their defenders to think about. Hope I'm wrong.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 07:24 PM

Matri will just stand around trying to look pretty for the cameras. He's not going to pull off the type of work Pazzo did last season, neither would Balo in all honesty.

I think Kaka is disciplined enough to play something similar to a striker role, of course he'll drift deeper, because as you said it is his natural game, but I think we'll be able to catch them out on counters with those 3

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 07:50 PM

Wow Robinho. great skill there

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 07:50 PM

Started well...

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 07:53 PM

Muntari goal. Offside. Great work Kaka and Robinho

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 07:55 PM

ROBINHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Brilliant Kaka and Robi

Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 22 2013, 07:55 PM

WHAT A GOAL!!!

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 07:56 PM

Have a feeling that's a bit too early...

Posted by: dst Oct 22 2013, 07:57 PM

Kaka's touches have been brilliant! Great goal!!

Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 22 2013, 07:57 PM

Why can't they play like that in the league?

Posted by: acid911 Oct 22 2013, 07:58 PM

Well I did say that the poozers will break early. If there is one club that can intimidate these divers, it's us.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 07:58 PM

Yeah, he's showing he's still got it

Posted by: acid911 Oct 22 2013, 07:58 PM

You don't know?! It's the CL anthem that plays before the match that does the trick!

Posted by: Zed.D Oct 22 2013, 07:59 PM

I just saw the old Kaka brilliant! your average player wouldn't have passed there.

Posted by: acid911 Oct 22 2013, 08:00 PM

I wasn't aware he ever lost it, truth be told. It was his time at the wrecker-of-players club that turned him in. And well some of his injuries did not help, as did the stinker of a coach.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 22 2013, 08:03 PM

Play the CL anthem before the league games then.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 08:06 PM

Galliani said he does that

Posted by: acid911 Oct 22 2013, 08:08 PM

Yup, this solution had been brought up here on the forums circa 2007-08. Before you were here, I remember distinctly. Obviously, none of us wrote to Galliani asking him to do so. It used to be downright atrocious in the Ancelotti era where we would be a totally changed team in Europe.

In the league we stunk against smaller opponents, and this little trick was brainstormed here on Milanfan!

Posted by: acid911 Oct 22 2013, 08:10 PM

Aye, the doofus said so himself. Not sure he still does this, now with Allegri at the helm. But I'm quite enjoying the match overall, just hoped to see Balotelli here starting. Maybe he's best saved for the away game in Barcelona.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 08:10 PM

1-1

Zapata and his passing once again cost us.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 22 2013, 08:11 PM

Here's our great defence in action.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 08:12 PM

Zapata once again with the idiotic pass, he did something similar in a league game recently, can't remember against who atm

Posted by: acid911 Oct 22 2013, 08:13 PM

Expected, expected. When you had 2-bit defenders like Zapata and Constant that do not even know the ABC of man marking. Plus no Silva or Nesta in the middle to clean up. Mexes just is not capable of doing this, he is a slow, slow mover.

Posted by: Zed.D Oct 22 2013, 08:15 PM

Why do we always take our foot off the pedal when we score? their defense is as solid as biscuits.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 08:18 PM

Mexes had nothing to do with it, Zapata's pass took everyone by surprise, and when you're playing against top players such as the case here, you can't expect to make mistakes without paying the consequence.

Before that they had not created one single shooting opportunity through open play

Posted by: Ry4n Oct 22 2013, 08:34 PM

scary fricken game i hope we push out a little 2nd half feel like we're waiting for barca to score.

Posted by: acid911 Oct 22 2013, 08:35 PM

Agreeable, but he really should have slided in that last minute tackle. He was mere inches away.

Posted by: Zed.D Oct 22 2013, 08:35 PM

We're a bit outnumbered in midfield I feel. and Birsa looks lost and ineffective. we'd be better off with someone like Poli's characteristics. can't keep losing the midfield battle like this. Barca are always going to have the upper hand, sure, but I think we can be better than this.

Posted by: Ry4n Oct 22 2013, 08:36 PM

De Dong is playing great !

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 08:38 PM

Don't know, I feel like we need someone with Balo's character out there, just to liven things up for us, I think we're doing well in containing them so far. But yeah, Birsa is anonymous so far. I think Barca are just one step too far for him

Kaka though has been simply amazing, he's helped Constant more on that flank than Muntari. Plus his smart touches in attack.

Posted by: Ry4n Oct 22 2013, 08:39 PM

I would bring Balo or Poli on for Birsa hes absent from the game i feel.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 08:39 PM

So maybe Poli for Birsa at the start of the half and then maybe Balo for Robinho a bit later...

Posted by: Ry4n Oct 22 2013, 08:40 PM

yeah that would work although i'm liking the link up with Kaka' atm

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 08:41 PM

Celtic winning against Ajax.

Things staying as they are would mean Barca on 7 point, us on 5, Celtic 3 and Ajax 1

I'd take this tbh

Celtic will lose against Ajax away so them exchanging points would do well for us. We'll easily lose the away leg against Barca but it we'd still come out of this double header in second place.

All we'd have to do then is win the home game against Ajax and that would probably do it for us

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 08:43 PM

Yeah, they're working very well together but both are putting in so much effort they're bound to both get exhausted as this game goes on

Posted by: Ry4n Oct 22 2013, 08:44 PM

Yeah this whole setup takes so much stamina from them , almost reminds me of Saachi tactics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dnx16-tEF4

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 08:46 PM

Yeah, watching that vid, it was amazing how that defence moved.

Posted by: Zed.D Oct 22 2013, 08:56 PM

WTF Robinho!!!!!

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 08:56 PM

He mad a ballet jump over the ball

Posted by: dst Oct 22 2013, 08:57 PM

hahaha Robinho! I know he would have missed it anyway but come on, touch it at least!!

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 08:59 PM

Just barely hanging on now.

Posted by: Zed.D Oct 22 2013, 09:00 PM

My right foot is much better than Messi's.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 09:08 PM

Balo for Robinho

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 09:15 PM

Urby for Kaka

Easily MoM for us

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 09:20 PM

Poli should be coming on soon, probably for Birsa

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 09:25 PM

Neymar off.

Abate proved me right

Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 22 2013, 09:26 PM

Weak second half from both teams.

F U Muntari.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 09:32 PM

Can't watch!

Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 22 2013, 09:37 PM

An awful coach with an undrilled defense with yet another great home result v Barca.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 09:37 PM

1-1

A stupid mistake from one player cost us. What else is new?

Posted by: Ry4n Oct 22 2013, 09:39 PM

1-1 I'll take that all things considered.

Posted by: arivanjj Oct 22 2013, 09:40 PM

great result considering. some impeccable defending.

Posted by: acid911 Oct 22 2013, 09:42 PM

Wonder where's the 0-6 and 0-4 and 0-3 predictions went? We should be more concerned about fudging things against Ajax and others instead of worrying about Barcelona at home. They have their own demons to worry about. Now, Barcelona away would be another thing, let's hope we can take a full strength team there.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 09:44 PM

Celtic 2-1 Ajax

Group standing as of now

Barca 7
Milan 5
Celtic 3
Ajax 1

I can only assume that Celtic will lose the away game against Ajax, while we'll lose ours against Barca, which would lead to the group looking like this after the next game

Barca 10
Milan 5
Ajax 4
Celtic 3

Winning the game at home against Ajax will be crucial as that would practically close the group out, especially if Celtic lose or draw to Barca

Posted by: Zed.D Oct 22 2013, 09:45 PM

Good result but let's face it, the San Siro pitch is awful and that affects Barca's game (they have no right to complain though). we'll get our asses handed to us at Camp Nou.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 09:47 PM

Meh, losing away against them doesn't really matter. What will matter is that home game against Ajax, and maybe Celtic away. If we can get 4 points from those 2 games, we're surely through, especially if Barca win the rest of their games

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Oct 22 2013, 09:56 PM

Okay I must say we started of well... really well in fact, but as time went on Barca began to impose themselves a bit more here and there particularly with their possession, but we did well even with the limited moments we had on the ball.

If you asked me for a draw before the game I would have taken it no questions asked, but after seeing the way we took to the game and opportunities we wasted, I honestly feel a bit disappointed with just the draw.

We threw away a bit more than we should have, but so did Barca, so the result overall was a fair one!

The ref was lenient to us at times though (recall the Muntari slide from behind on Messi outside the box; just moments after getting a yellow card ).

Posted by: Zed.D Oct 22 2013, 09:58 PM

Yep, it was important to at least get a draw from this game and we did well to do that.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 10:05 PM

Don't get me wrong, I still think we can go to the Camp Nou and get a draw there as well. We just need to stay compact as we did today. Last season we totally opened up for them and let them do as they pleased. If we play a proper defensive game we can close them out, we did it before there.

We'll have DS back for that one, as well as SES who can play instead of Birsa (he'll bring in more of an edge into our game)

Muntari was decent today, but he had his idiotic moments. That tackle on Messi, I thought surely this is a second yellow for him and then that miss right in front of Valdes, yes he was off balance but he should have at least tried to square it to Balo who was free right next to him

Mexes and Abate were flawless (Abate answered those questions asked about whether he could handle Neymar, didn't get in behind him once). Constant had his moments of "WTF is he doing?" but overall I think he was very good. Zapata had good moments but that ridiculous pass which led to the goal cost us. It's always the same thing with him. He simply cannot pass the ball. He should either go for the pass sideways to Mexes or if that's not on he should hack it away. Trying to be smart on the ball is really not his forte

Monto was great, same goes for De Jong. Kaka was imply brilliant. Robinho as well aside from that girly little jump over the ball when he should have scored. Birsa was very low key but he did a good defensive job

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Oct 22 2013, 10:06 PM

Balotelli would have made a meal of that!

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Oct 22 2013, 10:24 PM

Posted by: Danny Oct 22 2013, 10:40 PM

Well I got this one wrong, fully expected a molication and while Barca pressed us about 100% of the time, we did very very well to get the bonus point from the double header. I expected nothing.

Ratings:


Amelia: 6 Had next to nothing to actually do, for all the possession Barca had. Solid enough.

Abate: 7 Excellent from him. On his rare forays forward he was lively and dangerous, and defensively he was sound.

Zapata: 6 I thought was decent but not brilliant. Yeah, cost a goal, but his defending otherwise was solid if not ground breaking. Did enough.

Mexes: 6 A few careless passes and wasted a great chance but generally his positional sense was good.

Constant: 5 Ok. Nothing more.

De Jong: 4 I thought De Jong had his worst match in a Milan shirt tonight. Of every 10 passes he made, about 2 or 3 hit the target. And I don't mean due to being closed down - he just wasn't very accurate. He hardly made any tackles and the ones he did make missed as well. And I freakin' love him - but tonight he was poor.

Monto: 7 Real captain's shift tonight. First time since he's had the captaincy where he looked like the leader. Took a lot of responsibility and was so important in the middle for us.

Muntari: 5 Real chalk and cheese night. Some very good attacking work and last ditch tackles were undone by needless fouls and a desire to get sent off. Dallied on the ball too much.

Birsa: 6 Not bad actually - lots of energy and worked hard on the right as much defensively as anyone.

Kaka: 8 I give him 8 for that wonderful first half, because, honestly? Ran totally out of puff in the second and barely did a thing of quality in the second 45. But the point was won in the first half and during that half he was absolutely brilliant. Great assist for the goal. Clearly well behind on his fitness.

Robinho: 7 That comical miss aside a very good display - consistently Milan's best attacking threat this season along with Balo, and took his goal well.

Subs:

Urby: 4 Made absolutely no impact bar some fouls.

Poli: 6 Such a hard worker who should really have started. He's impressing in every match.

Balo: 5 tbh didn't do much at all.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 22 2013, 11:00 PM

A very strong performance from Milan, aside from two or three mishaps Milan kept it tight for Barca, bottlenecks when Barca take one step into Milan's half of the pitch.

It was motivation that got the players going, but so was it the coach's tactics and instructions.

We all feared for the worst, but a draw at home with Barcelona with a team made up of Zapata, Constant, Muntari, Montolivo, and Birsa expected to do more against the team of the decade? A draw is a very good result in this circumstance.

Kaka

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 11:07 PM

Strange to see you lump in Monto with that lot. Monto was exceptional, as his been the case with him at Milan bar a handful of games this season when he was played out of position and maybe a couple of them last season as well. I mean, the guy is not Pirlo, but cut him some slack. He's been great for us.

This is probably the easiest shift Allegri gets each year. All his instructions come down to is to defend and to double up and triple up when necessary. Just flood the midfield and keep things tight. That's all the instructions come down to

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 22 2013, 11:14 PM

Well, I wasn't expecting a draw. Great display in the first half, ran out of gas in the second. Defense was very solid and midfield held well, but I believe that if we had a more capable attack we could have even won this. Kaká was great but in the second half he was exhausted (which is normal considering injury + little play time so far). Robinho and Birsa, they're so poor. Robinho did have a few good moments (and a very embarrassing one), but he just can't cut it against strong sides. And Birsa, wow! He was downright pathetic. Absolutely invisible throughout the entire match. The only good thing he did was cover spaces when Barça held possession, but anyone can do that. I can't wait to get Honda in January. With him, Balo and Kaká I think we'll be a serious threat offensively.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2013, 11:33 PM

The problem is, we're a threat to ourselves defensively.

Zapata with that pass, just can't get over it, simply because he made a replica mistake in the league, I think it was against Juve. Just ridiculous. If there's no one open, just hack it away. Once Barca got into that situation I knew immediately they'd score. We had everyone already up the pitch so once they got into a situation where they didn't have to go through 2 walls of red and black shirts it was easy for them because that's how good they are in those situations

Posted by: dst Oct 23 2013, 12:09 AM

Seriously, I don't understand what's going on here! It looks like a FIFA bug.

Posted by: Linkman Oct 23 2013, 12:28 AM

I think the dude expected he was in offside and maybe someone was running behind him. ...no, I don't think it's very bright either.

But I do think he had a great game, along with Kaká and Birsa to a lesser degree. See, my optimism was totally justified! I think if we had started with Poli rather than Muntari, maybe we could've achieved the second goal and the win. But alas, it wasn't a waste at all.

Ups: Monto, Kaká, Robinho. I would very much like to see a 3-1 up front with Kaká, Robi, Birsa/SES/Honda, and Balo up front. Also, Amelia was solid and I don't ever want to see Abbiati again.

Down: Constant, Zapata...

Posted by: acid911 Oct 23 2013, 12:40 AM

These two should actually be down AND out. They haven't even got the basics covered. A good showing 95% of the match and then a fatal mistake that leads to a goal? Yeah, we are so not going to win anything this way. The sooner we realize this and shove these two off, the better.

That, or there really need some basic, basic coaching to do things right. 101 training type of thing!

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 23 2013, 01:40 AM

Well, De Sciglio will be back soon, and Rami will come in January.

Posted by: Linkman Oct 23 2013, 02:49 AM

We will definitely look loads better when that happens.

Posted by: acid911 Oct 23 2013, 02:57 AM

Yeah, saner moments. Look forward to them. Hopefully Rami can click with Mexes and complement him.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 23 2013, 07:17 AM

I have to say that if someone had offered me a 1-1 right at the beginning I would have happily taken it. I think we did play really well, and this false nine is exactly the kind of unpredictability we've been criticising Allegri for not having. So a pleasant surprise there.

Where do we go wrong? Once again the incapability to build from the back was there. The tendency to get into self-inflicted pressure was there. Not too happy about that.

I have to say it's really looking like what Tassotti said. Our season did start last game against Udinese. And that's how we are looking. This has become typical of Allegri that we spend the first 10 games of a season trying to come up with a gameplan, before going on a good run. However those 10 games will have often cost us the season.

Game-wise, yes the front three were great. But for me two special mentions to Abate and Montolivo. Abate kept Neymar in check, and Montolivo put in a skipper's shift. Finally happy to see that. And even happier with his post game comments:

"It was a bit like last season, as we allowed Barcelona possession and went on the counter-attack. We had two or three great chances to really hurt them, but it didn’t go well,” he said of the 1-1 Champions League draw."

“It’s a shame, as we had the opportunities to win this match and we really wanted to."

To me that's a welcome relief from "If we lose, it won't be the end of the world" kind of nonsense we have heard far too often.

I hope the team can pick up and mount a good chase till XMas. Reinforcements will be crucial in Jan, as well as exits.

I think it's time for Niang, Zaccardo and Noce to leave. Cristante needs to come in. His performance against Barca was remarkable in the Primavera match where we got hammered 6-2.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 23 2013, 09:28 AM

I don't know if he mistimed it, but he had a pretty good view of it for a long while as it came to him, or if he thought Kaka was maybe running behind him...


I've been talking about training drills for a while now, especially when it comes to the idiotic mistakes from set-pieces, but this here has nothing to do with training. It's just one guy making an idiotic mistake which has been repeated countless times from him. He does this regularly in the league. I think the game we paid for it was against Juve where he did the exact same thing, but I've seen him do it regularly and we don't get punished because most teams in the league are not Barca and silly mistakes are not instantly punished.

All he has to do is either go for the sideways pass to Mexes - who is actually a good passer - or if he's not available just hack it away.


Yep, it will be a relief to get DS back for that left side and Rami will be a good addition, Zapata has really been a let down after a pretty solid first season.


Yep, not to mention Honda as well and I think we could see someone as a cover for De Jong being brought in as well

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 23 2013, 09:44 AM

Oh, again. Exceptional and great? Yes, but like Danny said - in a team of Zapatas, De Jongs and Muntaris. Indeed, great - in that particular context. And he really played well against Barcelona, yet...he's simply put not sufficient to make Milan spark. When we start rebuilding our team (whenever that happens), I don't see a place for him. There are far better midfielders who can contribute much more in footballing terms then he does.


Rami? Is this you wish or something concrete?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 23 2013, 09:45 AM

Oh, and new poll http://www.milanfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8275&st=0

Posted by: han2503 Oct 23 2013, 09:49 AM

What do his teammates have to do with anything here? The fact is he stood toe to toe with that Barca midfield today and did not look out of his depth or out of place next to them.

Don't be bitter because he's ONCE AGAIN proving you wrong You were over the moon when he was seemingly out of form and thus "proving your initial analysis of him right".

And when we do rebuild the names who would not have space left at Milan are certainly not Monto's. Zapata, Constant, Muntari, Nocerino, Niang, Robinho, Birsa? Yes, but Monto? No, he'll still be a very important part of this team

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 23 2013, 09:56 AM

I don't think so. I fail to see why you value him that much.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 23 2013, 10:19 AM

And I fail to see why you don't.

You were right about Aquilani, but not here. Last season you had to bow your head down because his performances were that great and this season he started out slowly but he's getting back to that. So I don't get your problem with him. And to say he's a jack of all trades but master of none is BS imo

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 23 2013, 10:48 AM

I think we're going in circles now, so I'm gonna give a final comment. Bow my head? Did Montolivo explode or something? I think you're overrate him, you make it sound like he did something outstanding or magnificent. He was good, but hell, he wasn't that good. All the Muntari's and Zapata's made our standards and expectations shrink. The dreadful midfield we have makes Monto look better then he actually is. I simply expect more. Final question: which trades does Monto master in your opinion?

Posted by: han2503 Oct 23 2013, 12:05 PM

Well you were very critical of him when we got him and was convinced that he'd be another Aquilani situation but you had to admit that he was doing very well (don't make me look through 100s of posts to prove this please ) So in the end, yes, you did have to bow your head to your previous criticism of him.

And obviously he does look good when on the other side of him there is a numbskull playing in the form of Muntari. That doesn't mean anything though. Look at him yesterday, he went up against, imo, the best CMs in football, and he still imposed himself on that midfield, I was just reading through a Barca forum and they were complaining about Iniesta and that Monto had him in his pocket. And this is a direct quote from one of their posters. So no I don't think I overrate him, I never said he was top class or the best at what he does. But acknowledge how important he is to our game and how influential he is for us.

I think Monto is best at distributing the ball, keeping a good flow to our game, bringing the FBs into the game, controlling the tempo and also covering defensively. I do think there are some things that he needs to improve upon, but overall those are the things we rely on him for and he does them very well

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 23 2013, 12:18 PM

Mostly we agree. All points you put out are valid. Yes, I initially though he'll end up just another Aquilani (even though I always said he's a step better then Aqua). But IMO he didn't excel either. He needs much more improvement. His defensive intelligence is overall very good. But his distribution skills and his vision is something that has to improve. Yes, his play regarding the flanks is good, but his through balls and passes that initiate a counter are not precise enough.

Anyway, he's a good or very good player. But he won't take us to the next level, and for becoming great we need that. That's why I said there's not much place for him in a possibly big Milan again. Because he occupies a pivotal position which every great team has covered (Barcelona obviously, Bayern and Madrid as well) with WC. It's like a precondition.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 23 2013, 12:27 PM

So I see where you're coming from Filippo. But I must add here that the Milan you're looking at is an ideal one. I think it will take us a significant amount of time and investment before we reach that stage.

Montolivo in this team provides a vital purpose here. The current mid-field unlike the old Milan's is an engine room rather than an art gallery. It will function as such. Montolivo in his current role, contrary to what you expect is not really the player making the play before the assist.

If you're thinking of such a player you're thinking of Modric. Montolivo is a pace-setter. In fact I would go so far as to call him a holding mid-fielder plus metronome sort of player.

He currently changes the pace of the game. From ambling around holding position to suddenly releasing the ball to the forwards. His job is to cover space and play the role wherein he is the first outlet for the defence or defensive mids when they are in a crunch.

He is somewhere in between Gattuso and Xabi Alonso. In that role he plays quite well for Milan.

If he played that role you're talking about, trust me it wouldn't take long for him to become the sole point of focus for opponent midfields, and then that would be the end of it. We would be back to the days when Pirlo was shackled.

The only positive I could draw from Allegri's tenure was that opposing teams no longer had easy points of reference like in the old days, when they could stop X and therefore stop Milan.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 23 2013, 01:22 PM

Don't you know that we've signed Rami for January? It's official.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 23 2013, 01:34 PM

What? Really? Didn't know that at all.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 23 2013, 01:34 PM

Yep.

http://www.football-italia.net/40674/official-rami-joins-milan

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 23 2013, 01:38 PM

Hmh, missed that one obviously. And how do we rate him? I must admit, I haven't watched a Valencia game since their Bayern clash years ago.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 23 2013, 01:42 PM

I don't know, honestly. But he must have had a good season in 2012 as he was a starter for France in the Euros alongside Mexes. Valencia are selling him now because he had a row with their current coach and he put him out of the squad.

Posted by: Danny Oct 23 2013, 04:03 PM

Quite a big miss Pippo! Yeah he's training with us now - I think he fell out with Dukic and that was that, so we got a half decent defender on a free iirc.

But obviously can't play till January.

As for rate, I honestly couldn't tell you. Given his international career kinda mirrors Mexes, and they're both French, he's probably the best comparison. Both did well in Ligue 1 and have kinda failed to achieve greatness since moving to a bigger league.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 23 2013, 09:17 PM

Han my man, Montolivo is not great for us. As super Pippo Simone said, Monto only looks good because the technical level around him is poor. He most definitely would not be starter for Barcelona, Madrid, United, Bayern, or any of your top clubs. What he is, just like Muntari but each to his own 'different' characteristics are Milan's quality in 2013.

Erm, so I guess Balotelli and Kaka and Montolivo are who single handedly got us 5 points so far, while Juventus's superior team and coach have 2 points so far. Yeah, tactics who?

Posted by: han2503 Oct 23 2013, 10:03 PM

I'm sorry but that first bit is a huge load. He played against the best CMs in football last night and still looked as accomplished as them, don't try to diminish what Monto has achieved and say it's only a bit of mind tricks because the others are so bad.

Muntari is the only really terrible player in that midfield. De Jong is simply great at what HE does. Did Gattuso make Pirlo and Seedorf look better because he wasn't as good a footballer as those 2 are? No. Just because Muntari is bad, it does not mean that you can brush Monto aside and make it seem like he only looks good because he's playing next to him. Poli is a highly talented player, and if our coach had half a brain and played both him and Monto in the midfield he'd get even more out of both of them because both have quality and they'd complement each other and make each other better as well

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 23 2013, 10:18 PM

Good God, you're doing it again. You really think Monto was on-pair with Iniesta? Don't you see how much Xavi (maybe not as usual, but still) and Iniesta dynamize Barcelona's attack? How much space they're carving with all those passes, not just to the flanks, but the direct passes? Every single attack (bar from some individual tries by Alves and Adriano) came through them. Can the same be said for Monto?

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 23 2013, 10:38 PM

Monto is a totally different player. He's a hard worker and a distributor. He's not as sophisticated as Xavi and Iniesta, and he can't create stuff out of nowhere. I think he can get the most of himself by playing alongside De Jong in a 4-2-3-1 formation. That's what suits him best.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 24 2013, 05:07 AM

I agree with that. I really think we should go into a double pivot. I know the whole world and their uncle is playing 4-2-3-1 these days, but it's the formation of the times.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 24 2013, 09:10 AM

And YOU'RE doing it as well...

Just because he's not the SAME type of player does not make him any less important for the team. And once again, the BARCA fans themselves were saying that Monto completely outshined Iniesta yesterday, and this coming from people who watch him on a weekly basis.

And completely agree with you x-off.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 25 2013, 06:39 AM

I agree with him as well. They're not the same types, and Monto is really just as important as Iniesta. But I really don't think he outshined Iniesta.

If someone would quote our forum, the result would be: no one is good, almost every player, coach or manager is cr@p.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 25 2013, 09:19 AM

I think Monto had more moments where he shined and influenced play then Iniesta, which is why the Barca fans said what they did.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 25 2013, 05:38 PM

Of course, and Muntari almost cost us the match again. Its like a cliche.

You want to know why that baffles me .. Seedorf, being 10 times Montolivo in every aspect was always directed harsh criticism. Yet, Montolivo, a 'good' player, is being peered to Iniesta?

He is a good player, i concur. But he is no Iniesta, Iniesta to this Milan, is Ozil to this Arsenal.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 25 2013, 08:00 PM

And he's played against bad CMs in Serie A and looked even worse than the opposition.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 25 2013, 08:07 PM

Seedorf got a lot of hate because people could easily see that at times he was not giving his all, and there is nothing worse then seeing a player not putting in a 100% for the team. And it's not just here where Seedorf had a love-hate relationship with the fans, even in matches you could feel when the fans in the stadium were starting to turn against him because of suspect performances on his part.

And I never said Monto was on the level of Iniesta, if I did I'd hand you the straight jacket myself. But he did stand toe to toe with them last season and the other night, and looked just as accomplished and not an inch out of his element. And yes, this season he started off a bit shaky, and that was made even worse when Allegri moved him behind the strikers. But he's picking his form back up now, that's all that matters.

And Monto has always been an exemplary performer for Milan. So there's no need to give him any hate, even if he's not anywhere near the level of Iniesta. And let's face it, unless we make an Iniesta ourselves through the youth set-up or buy a player really young with that kind of potential, we're never going to have someone on the level of Iniesta


And you're talking about a number of games which I could count on one hand and still have fingers left over, add to that, our genius coach was playing him behind the strikers.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 25 2013, 08:14 PM

Yeah. Seedorf played one game every ten matches. The rest of the time he was just walking on the pitch having his mind someplace else. Not to mention in his last 2-3 years with us physically he couldn't cut it any longer yet was a starter most of the time. Players like that infuriate me. I'd rather have people like Abate, Poli and Monto who give their all in every single game, even though they might not have the talent and skills.

Posted by: Linkman Oct 26 2013, 12:28 AM

I have a firm opinion that Seedorf at his 50 or 60%, four years ago, is miles better than most midfielders in Italy right now.

Yes, that includes Montolivo.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 26 2013, 12:53 AM

That's a huge overstatement.

Posted by: il_diavolo_mtl Oct 26 2013, 05:23 AM

agreed. I was one of his fans that had wished for an early retirement.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2013, 09:20 AM

Seedorf at 100% was pure footballing genius, a legend. Seedorf at 50% was simply a lazy player who at times hindered the team rather then helped it

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 26 2013, 09:49 AM

Agreed

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2013, 10:22 AM

Absolutely shocked!!

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 26 2013, 01:09 PM

Yeah, unbelievable!

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2013, 03:30 PM

Yeah, I was like



When I read that

Posted by: Linkman Oct 26 2013, 03:41 PM

The thing is, I still think Seedorf is good. I watch him regularly at Botafogo.

It was time to let him go from Milan, yes, because physically he wasn't cutting it anymore, but his vision, passing and sense of pace are still amazing.

But I can agree to disagree...

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2013, 04:35 PM

Well I don't think you can compare how he does in one league to another and use it as evidence. Especially when comparing Serie A to the Brazilian league, where it is simply a level lower, especially in terms of defence which is why Seedorf was able to make such an impact at his age, the same could be said for Dinho, as both have amazing technique, vision, etc but have deteriorated physically to a point where they can no longer be as effective with a top club where the physical demands are so higher

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 26 2013, 04:44 PM

Yet, I've seen Montolivo doing the same season after season, with Fiorentina, with us - playing 1 good game and a bunch of very absent ones, with less effort and less heart.

Posted by: Linkman Oct 26 2013, 05:44 PM

I agree, he indeed can't cut it physically for Serie A today. But four years ago, under Leo, he was still good enough to be one of the best, even at his 50-60%. That's what I meant.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 26 2013, 05:54 PM

I haven't seen that. I think Monto always puts his 100% in every game. Sometimes he might be good, sometimes not.