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Posted by: armisse Jun 20 2008, 08:36 PM

I want Uefa cup




http://www.uefa.com/competitions/uefacup/news/kind=1/newsid=723639.html

<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>Slight editing of title and moved to the Football Discussions forum.
</span>

All talk about the 2008-2009 UEFA Cup here!

Posted by: armisse Jun 20 2008, 10:45 PM

Thanks tennie !!

Posted by: dst Jun 20 2008, 11:15 PM

Damn!

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Jun 20 2008, 11:17 PM

Comon look at the bright side, at least its a cup Milan hasn't won yet

Posted by: morgoth Jun 20 2008, 11:27 PM

I too hope Milan wins it next year and join Barcelona, Bayern and the zebras. The only clubs that won all the 3 european cups.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 21 2008, 12:55 AM

Early odds for the winners, top 10 favourites.

1st - AC Milan 6/1
2nd - Sevilla 16/1
=2nd - Valencia 16/1
=2nd - Everton 16/1
=2nd - Tottenham 16/1
6th - Ajax 25/1
=6th - Hamburg 25/1
=6th - Man City 25/1
9th - Sampdoria 33/1
=9th - Aston Villa 33/1
=9th - Portsmouth 33/1
=9th - Stuttgart 33/1
=9th - Feyenoord 33/1
=9th - Benfica 33/1

So Milan are heavy favourites right from the start!

Posted by: Darunia Jun 21 2008, 03:24 AM

None of those teams scare me, but I still don't see us winning.

Plus the 3rd place CL group teams will be in later on

Posted by: Tennie Jun 21 2008, 03:33 AM

I think a lot will depend on whether or not Milan will bring its A team or its B team to the Uefa Cup games. It's not unknown, at least in the early stages, for teams to rest the 'regular' starters for Uefa Cup games and if the league really is a top priority next year, I wouldn't be too surprised if that were to happen.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 21 2008, 03:37 AM

I generally think UEFA Cup teams > CL dropouts. There's usually an exception if somebody actually decent like Rangers gets knocked out, but usually it's average teams from average countries.


I think Miln will go for the league. Then again, the UEFA Cup could be an excellent excuse not to buy anybody. Buy nobody, do average in the league, win the UEFA Cup. And there we go, it's a succesful season.

Posted by: arivanjj Jun 21 2008, 04:04 AM

Final is in Istanbul!

Posted by: dst Jun 21 2008, 11:35 AM

I want us to face Aston Villa. At least then it will be interesting cause otherwise I don't really care!

... ...

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 21 2008, 07:09 PM

I hope that doesn't happen. So in a way, I want milan out of the UEFA Cup!

Posted by: Tennie Jun 22 2008, 02:47 AM

Milan's first game in the UEFA Cup campaign will be on September 18. The return leg, which will be played at the San Siro, will be on October 2.

The draw for that round of play will be made on August 29. (This follows the first two preliminary rounds).

http://www.acmilan.com/NewsDetail.aspx?idNews=68445

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 22 2008, 02:58 AM

Milan start September 18th!? We start our campaign mid-July.. it's gonna be a long season.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 22 2008, 03:20 PM

Well that spells our doom right away...

Personally would like to see Ajax win it. And as Tennie said, if we are actually serious about the league I can't see us going all out to win this. But it could be great seeing us trying to go for both, but personally I don't think our team can handle both competitions, even if the UEFA Cup compared to the CL is much more easier in terms of teams we will play against




This made me laugh for some reason. Imagine us going to the final there again, even though it's not the CL I would still hope that we could win a final there. Or maybe the stadium is cursed for us

Posted by: amancik Jun 22 2008, 04:15 PM

But don't be surprised if we get both!
Forza Milan!
I look forward to next season!

Posted by: acid911 Jun 22 2008, 04:25 PM

I won't mind the UEFA Cup along with the League. Yum, yum. Another thing to add to our title list.

Posted by: dst Jun 22 2008, 04:37 PM

I would not say it's cursed... Shee-va scored 4 there the season after the final. It's not cursed anyway... if I believed in God I'd say he fell asleep that night and did not even watch the game on replay... otherwise he would have certainly changed the result!

But... thank God I'm an atheist!

Posted by: han2503 Jun 23 2008, 10:36 AM

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Jul 4 2008, 11:16 PM

Mediaset has placed a bid to the rights for exclusivity of the UEFA cup matches in Italy. Mediaset has never bid for such rights before, but as it seems, the Berlusconi family doesn't want Milan to be left alone, but at least followed by TV ...

Posted by: han2503 Jul 4 2008, 11:44 PM

Great news, hopefully they'll get the rights

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 8 2008, 02:15 PM

UEFA Europa League..

Posted by: dst Jul 8 2008, 02:24 PM

They can call it Pam's Boobs Cup and make her boobs the logo of it. Still nothing would change... it still would be thought of as a second-class competition cause simply that's what it is...

And we're in it!

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 8 2008, 02:28 PM

The European Cup is a 2nd rate competition nowadays. Apparently finishing 4th in a league makes you a "Champion"

I'll not respect that competition again until only the holders + league winners are in it.. and maybe the domestic cup winners, otherwise it's stupid.

Posted by: Jako19 Jul 8 2008, 02:52 PM

Agreed.. but the compatition seems to get better and better in the uefa cup.. or Pam's Boobs Cup.. or whatever each year. I mean in my view Bayern Munich was a very solid team last year and still couldnt win it. Granite they got eliminated by the Champions.

Posted by: dst Jul 8 2008, 03:35 PM

2nd rate? How is it second rate? It'd certainly be more fair if each country's champion team entered but then the quality would be significantly lower.
You said some time ago that you think the Euro is stronger than the WC cause in the WC there are more small teams...
Well I think this is the case here too... if only champions were allowed then the difficulty of the competition would be lower.
So when you talk about 2nd rate, what do you mean? Second rate in terms of quality? I totally disagree with you on that! If you mean second rate in terms oh how accurately the name of it the competition subscribes its participants then yeah...
But really... second rate compared to what? It's the competition in which the strongest teams of Europe take part? Does the name annoy you so much? What if it was called European Cup again, would anything change?


It is a very good competition in terms of quality and it's there that you I think you get to see more great matches but I do think of it as a not prestigious competition anyway...

Posted by: LaPalma Jul 8 2008, 07:31 PM

I don't think the UEFA Cup will have to stay a 2nd rate competition. 10-15 years ago it was a highly respected and prestigious trophy.
And of course there's still a lot of big teams playing there. Not Champions League big...but this year it has Milan, Valencia, Samp, Sevilla and Hamburg.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 8 2008, 08:33 PM

And the Champions League is like the World Cup. Too many small teams, so I'm being consistant with my opinion. The old European Cup didn't have many small teams - only those that were fortunate enough to win their league title, that's why I prefer that format, that's all I'm saying.


2nd rate doesn't mean you have to be 2nd best to something in my opinion. Like some would consider Celtic and Rangers 2nd rate teams, yet they're two of the most - if not THE most - succesful teams in the history of the sport.


The name doesn't annoy me, I just think it sounds stupid.



I've always seen the UEFA Cup as a decent trophy. Look at some of the teams that've won it recently - Porto and Sevilla inparticular - and they're hardly crap sides. One nearly won La Liga, the other won the European Cup.

Posted by: acid911 Jul 8 2008, 08:35 PM

Exactly. And don't forget the CL dropouts who'll join in after the group stages. It's no cigar, but I'll smoke it. Particularly now that Milan is in it this year.

Posted by: dst Jul 9 2008, 10:51 AM

Considering the number of teams that enter the final stage of the competition there's no doubt that it's as powerful as it gets. It's a fact that for example Moldova's champions are not a better team than Italy's / Spain's / England's 4th team...
The only way to increase the quality of the competition is to lessen the number of teams allowed to participate. Then only the truly great teams would be allowed to enter... but in my opinion the 36 that get in are rightfully there.
I still don't understand how you'd like things to be though. Would you care explain?

I really can't see why you say the CL is 2nd rate... it's the most prestigious competition and every single player longs to play in it... your own Barry said he wants Liverpool in order to play CL football. It surely is CL football he is after cause he does not have more chances to win the PL with Liverpool than he has with Villa...

As for Celtic and Rangers, they are considered 2nd rate because their championship is considered 2nd rate, 1st rate being Premier League, Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga.
Same for Ajax. They have won so many but still they are now low in prestige because the Dutch league is comparatively weak.


This is one of the reasons I don't rate the UEFA Cup... it's like... OK you are not good enough for the CL... so we send you to the UEFA Cup...

Posted by: Jako19 Jul 9 2008, 01:43 PM

If i were to rate the Uefa cup.. i see it pretty much at the second(lesser) champion of europe.. It gives teams like Zenit, Galatasaray, & Feyenoord a chance to win something in europe because we all know they would not have enough depth in their squad to truely compete in the CL

Posted by: acid911 Jul 9 2008, 02:39 PM

Well, unless they completely revamped it, to be something like a true Champions League (with home and away matches, instead of a tournament), and then devise another as the European Cup, we'll have to live with it. Having a true League format will mean much more $$$, so maybe we'll see the idea go through.

Milan won't do so well in that format, then. Leagues and Milan don't go hand in hand. It's the knockout style tournament that's our forte. Much like Liverstools.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 9 2008, 03:53 PM

The latter stages of a competition means nothing, it's the competition as a whole. In this format you get about 20 crappys teams, in the European Cup format, alot, lot less.


The way they were before. Because it's getting 'too easy' to forfeit your own league to do well in the Champions League - like Liverpool and Milan have done alot recently. In modern day football, there aren't too many teams who have won the league to earn their right into the competition, then done well in the league AND Champions League the next season. Does it not seem stupid to you that Liverpool were the best team in Europe a few years ago, while being the 5th best team in their own league?


Of course they want to play in it, but I bet that it'd be considered even more prestigious if only the league winners got in it. Because you wouldn't take it for granted when you are in it, even Chelsea and United players would really appreciate it, but in its current format they have as much chance of winning the Champions League as they do the Carling Cup.

Then again, on here I'm talking to people who get to see their team play in the Champions League year after year, and even being in the UEFA Cup is considered a massive failure, so I'm not sure you get it really.


But then you're saying that crappy teams in Serie A are better than Celtic/Rangers, which is not the case. Because they're in a first rate league they must be a first rate team, surely?

Posted by: dst Jul 9 2008, 04:44 PM

I don't get what you mean here.


You see, I don't link the CL with the domestic championships this way. I mean... certainly, to me, Milan winning it in '07 and Liverpool in '05 while doing crap in the league is not the same as United winning both or even Chelsea challenging for both. But the competition itself is not less challenging because teams tend to do that. If anything, it's more challenging. What I'm saying is, the clubs make their own choices and I don't agree with focusing on one target but their choices on this matter don't spoil the competition.

And I'm with you, I'd love it if only champions entered but only in a 16 team format with a ranking system as in Tennis. Otherwise it'd be utter crap.
But by the way things are I think the competition is very strong and very high in quality. I don't know what you mean by 2nd rate but to me it sounds bad and I certainly don't think the CL is anything but a great competition.
I think you are stuck with the idea that only champions should enter? Why should only the champions enter? Is it meant to be just for those teams? Why shouldn't more teams have a chance? Why are lower league teams allowed to participate in the domestic cups, do they not deserve to?
If the CL should only be for the champions then by the same logic the FA Cup should only be for Premier League clubs. The other have nothing to do with it, they are of lower quality...


Agreed. I understand what you're saying. That's why, even if I despise Real, I always thought that what they did back when the EC first took place was amazing.


Rangers played Serie A's fourth team, Fiorentina in the semis of the UEFA Cup last season. They were not worse than the Viola but they were not better either...
I think the differences have widened and now the gap in quality is huge between the top leagues and the rest of them. There are only one or two good teams in them and even those are not better/much better than the top leagues' top 4 or 5 teams. And I'm talking about the mid-quality championships. The rest cannot even be compared.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 9 2008, 07:22 PM

You said something to do with only the real powerful teams make the latter stages of the competition, but that means nothing to me really. Powerful teams can make the latter stages of any domestic competition too.

I sort of agree with what you're saying, but I don't think it's right that you win that tournement while doing bad in your league. In my view you have to win the league the previous season (To qualify for it by right in my eyes) or win the league in the same season, otherwise I consider it a '2nd rate win'. That's just how I feel.


No, the FA Cup is the Football Association Cup, so anybody who is a member of the FA can enter. The League Cup on the other hand is only for league teams, so the ametuers can't enter. So this makes sense to me.


Celtic beat Man U the other year, Fenerbahce beat Sevilla this season. So it doesn't always work that way.


Winning a league is winning a league. If teams that finish 2nd in Italy, Spain and England think they deserve the spot more than somebody that wins the Maltese championship then there's just one thing to tell them. Shut up and win your own league, simple as that.

But that's the problem with todays football. The World only cares about the best teams in the best leagues. Not only does a team that finishes 4th in Italy/England/Spain get into the Champions League, they get seeded as well! Not only that, but they have a group stage, as an insurance policy that if they do have a bad game, they still have plenty of time to qualify, whereas in a knockout competition, a bad game means you'll probably go out.

That's jus my opinion. I believe it should just be the league Champions + the holder of the competition in a straight draw knockout with no seeds. But UEFA is too bothered about protecting it's favoured countries and teams, so it'll never happen.

Posted by: dst Jul 10 2008, 12:29 PM

By final stage I meant from September onwards... you really think that out of the 32 team that participate 20 of them are crap?
Then that means 4 of the teams that make the final 16 are also crap... that can't be right...


Yeah, that's how I feel too.


Now this is what I meant when I said you stick to the title... what if the CL was called the UEFA Cup? Then would it be right that every team should have a chance in it, including non-league winners?
It's just how they call it, the competition in its essence is just the same.


Yes it works both ways because the teams under discussion are not so far apart in terms of quality.
In terms of quality I think the way the teams are picked is the right one. Of course I'm a romantic and like you I'd like to see only the champions in it but that certainly would be a downsize in quality.
I've talking about quality right from the start here, not how things should be.


It's all a matter of how you look at it.
In terms of quality the 2nd/3rd/4th team in those competitions are much stronger than the Maltese champions.
In terms of achievement it's the same. I don't think the Maltese champions would be able to finish in the same position as they do.
But in terms of the heart and core of football the champions are champions and the Maltese champions should get a place.

It's only a matter of what the criteria is. Right now, the criteria is quality of the team and that's what you disagree with it, isn't it?


To me it's not a problem. I'd enjoy the competition in any case... for different reasons.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 10 2008, 01:22 PM

Sort of, yes.

I still enjoy it, but it's easier to enjoy it if you support Milan as they're one of the 'protected' teams. While Villa will rarely ever qualify, and when we do will probably be put in a group with 2 top teams, instead of maybe getting a fairer draw if it was done properly, so there's almost no point in most teams qualifying.

Posted by: dst Jul 10 2008, 02:04 PM

It has nothing to do with Milan. I will be still enjoying it next season... and I surely had great time watching the latter stages when Milan were knocked out last season.
I even said I would not watch the Chelski vs Football's Britney Spears encounters cause the I was disappointed by their previous clashes but I still could not do it... and I like neither of those two teams.

In my opinion there should be no draws. They should do what's been done in Tennis, even in the group stage.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 10 2008, 02:58 PM

That wouldn't be the worst idea ever.

But we have jack@sses in charge of UEFA, well, they're not quite at the level of a jack@ss yet, they're not that good.

Posted by: Jako19 Jul 10 2008, 03:13 PM

Haha personally I think there should be no draws in football at all.. I hate them, and I hate P.K's, I think they should play untill some one scores and truly wins. But maybe thats just cuz im American and none of our major sports ever end in ties.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 10 2008, 03:17 PM

No penalties!? Even though we suck at them, I don't think anything creates more drama in the sporting World than a penalty shoot-out!

Posted by: Jako19 Jul 10 2008, 03:21 PM

Drama, no nothing compares. But a true winner, i dont think so, example of this would be Rangers vs Florintina. Rangers didnt even attack it pissed me off so much cuz they knew that they had a better chance winning in pks than actually playing football the way its supposed to be played

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 10 2008, 03:27 PM

But even if you had that 'next goal wins' scenario, it could still be the same. Fiorentina could dominate the whole game, then Rangers score a fluke goal and win it, that's no different to penalties, except with penalties you have 5 chances to make amends, with next goal wins, there's no chances.

Posted by: dst Jul 10 2008, 03:36 PM

Penalties or not, I would not really mind. Like Kurt said, the drama in it is immense but I think it's an unfair way to end a tie. What I think should be done if a game ends in a draw is a repeat of the game if it is possible (like in a final) or extra time periods of 25 or so minutes with 3 substitutions allowed in each one and even a player substituted allowed to come on again from the 2nd period onwards. Or maybe that's just crazy.

Posted by: Jako19 Jul 10 2008, 03:42 PM

No that does not sound crazy at all that similar to the idea i was thinking about. I guess im not a fan of Pk's cuz two years in a row my team lost in the state finals on Pk's when the team we were playing had like 2 shots on goal the whole game. I would rather lose on a fluke goal cuz then some one ligitamently scored. And when Milan lost to L.P on Pks i got sick for like a week.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 19 2008, 08:59 PM

Villa just played their InterToto game against Odense, finished 2-2 in the away leg.
-Carew gave us the lead after 7 minutes.
-Sidwell had a debut, not to remember, putting into his own net, thought he couldn't do much about it to be fair.
-Laursen scored with 15 remaining to put us 2-1 up in his homeland.
-A really over-the-top dive from former Villan Djemba-Djemba somehow wins him a free-kick, which they put in the box and scre from in the last minute!

Bad refereeing by this Italian guy, looked like an ametuer. Not sure he made one correct deicision from either team.

Should wrap it up at home.

Posted by: Tennie Jul 21 2008, 12:37 AM

Napoli won their game away at Panionios, 0-1. Goal by Bogliacino. Napoli's Rinaudo was red-carded 15 minutes from time. Note: they didn't have Lavezzi in the squad for this one.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Jul 21 2008, 04:28 PM

Napoli are a good team. I would expect them to have a good season

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 27 2008, 02:50 AM

InterToto Finals, 2nd leg.

Tavriya Symferopol 1 - 0 Rennes
[1-1 on agg. Rennes win 10-9 on pens.]
Aston Villa 1 - 0 OB Odense
[Villa win 3-2 on agg.]
FC Vaslui 2 - 0 FK Neftchi
[Vaslui win 3-2 on agg.]
Burgas 0 - 1 Grasshoppers
Grasshoppers win 4-0 on agg.]
Braga 3 - 0 Sivasspor
[Braga win 5-0 on agg.]
Budapest Honved 1 - 2 Sturm Graz
[Graz win 2-1 on agg.]
Deportivo La Coruna 1 - 0 Bnei Sachnin
[Deportivo win 3-1 on agg.]
Napoli 1 - 0 Panionios
[Napoli win 2-0 on agg.]

And for those that haven't seen it. Freddie Bouma's knee/ankle horrible injury http://d.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/ng/sp/empics/20080726/16/1596963222-soccer-uefa-intertoto-cup-third-round-second-leg-aston-villa.jpg.

Posted by: jefri91 Jul 27 2008, 06:02 AM

forza naopli, its always great to see an italian club winning except for the merda ofcourse

Posted by: KillerMax Jul 27 2008, 04:53 PM

Love the avatar buddy.

Posted by: zdrossoneri Jul 27 2008, 05:07 PM

Oh my ******* god!

Posted by: acid911 Jul 27 2008, 05:44 PM

Looks bad. Very bad. That's got to hurt.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 27 2008, 07:42 PM

Initially it was said that he'd be back pretty much on christmas day, but things are worse than first thought and it looks like he won't be playing in a competitive game until sometime around February.

Posted by: Tennie Jul 27 2008, 07:49 PM

That's awful, Kurt.

Get well soon, Freddie!

Posted by: LaPalma Jul 28 2008, 08:36 AM

Stuttgart won their UI-Cup match against Saturn Ramenskoje (after loosing 0-1 in the first leg) with 3-0 after extra time. Beautiful free kick from Jan Simak in the 83rd minute saved them in the first place. Stuttgart then had the momentum and sealed the win during extra time. Two goals by Ciprian Marica. they were still playing without their Euro participants, namely Hitz (Also Stuttgarts new captain), Gomez, Lehmann and Boularouz.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 28 2008, 04:44 PM

Damn. I think we were the highest seed for the next round if it werent' for them winning.

Posted by: Tennie Aug 1 2008, 12:55 PM

Here's the UEFA Cup second qualifying round draw.

First leg: 14 August
Second leg: 28 August

NK Široki Brijeg (BIH) v Beşiktaş JK (TUR)
SC Braga (POR) v NK Zrinjski (BIH)
PFC Lokomotiv Sofia (BUL) v FK Borac (SRB)
FK Vojvodina (SRB) v Hapoel Tel-Aviv FC (ISR)
Aris Thessaloniki FC (GRE) v NK Slaven Koprivnica (CRO)
PFC Litex Lovech (BUL) v Hapoel Ironi Kiryat Shmona FC (ISR)
RC Deportivo La Coruña (ESP) v HNK Hajduk Split (CRO)
APOEL FC (CYP) v FK Crvena Zvezda (SRB)
KS Vllaznia (ALB) v SSC Napoli (ITA)
Maccabi Netanya FC (ISR) v PFC Cherno More Varna (BUL)
AC Omonia (CYP) v AEK Athens FC (GRE)
SK Liepájas Metalurgs (LVA) v SC Vaslui (ROU)
FC Zürich (SUI) v SK Sturm Graz (AUT)
VfB Stuttgart (GER) v Győri ETO FC (HUN)
KKS Lech Poznań (POL) v Grasshopper-Club (SUI)
FC Slovan Liberec (CZE) v MŠK Žilina (SVK)
FC WIT Georgia (GEO) v FK Austria Wien (AUT)
BSC Young Boys (SUI) v Debreceni VSC (HUN)
Legia Warszawa (POL) v FC Moskva (RUS)
FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk (UKR) v AC Bellinzona (SUI)
NK IB Ljubljana (SVN) v Hertha BSC Berlin (GER)
FK Sūduva (LTU) v FC Salzburg (AUT)
Djurgårdens IF FF (SWE) v Rosenborg BK (NOR)
Queen of the South FC (SCO) v FC Nordsjælland (DEN)
KAA Gent (BEL) v Kalmar FF (SWE)
Manchester City FC (ENG) v FC Midtjylland (DEN)
FC Honka Espoo (FIN) v Viking FK (NOR)
FC Haka (FIN) v Brøndby IF (DEN)
Stabæk IF (NOR) v Stade Rennais FC (FRA)
FC København (DEN) v Lillestrøm SK (NOR)
IF Elfsborg (SWE) v Saint Patrick's Athletic FC (IRL)
Aston Villa FC (ENG) v FH Hafnarfjördur (ISL)

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 2 2008, 02:28 AM

Our opponents want to switch the tie so that they come to England for the 2nd leg, seems very strange as I'd much prefer to have the 2nd leg at home, so they're doing us a favour really.

As for their name, Fimleikafélag Hafnarfjarðar, God help the English commentators that do our game.

Posted by: Tennie Aug 2 2008, 04:07 AM

You should get a recording of it, Kurt, for humor's sake.

Posted by: milanista1899 Aug 10 2008, 07:19 AM

They called them F&H on Five yesterday & apparently the H is pronounced I or something like that

Posted by: Tennie Aug 14 2008, 06:42 PM

Where's Kurt? Did he take one of the fishing trawlers up to Iceland?

I'm curious to see his reaction to the lineups announced for Villa's gam today v. FH Hafnarfjordur - Gareth Barry is included, which makes him cup tied until after the winter break.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Aug 14 2008, 06:50 PM

If he doesn't play, he would be able to play with Liverpool .. But that is if they r still after him.

Posted by: Tennie Aug 14 2008, 06:55 PM

Here, according to BBC, are the starting lineups:

FH Hafnarfjordur: Gunnar Sigurdsson, Eiriksson, Bjorn Sverrisson, Valgardsson, Nielsen, Gudnason, Vidarsson, Siim, Vihjalmsson, Matthias Gudmundsson, Tryggvi Gudmundsson.

Aston Villa: Friedel, Gardner, Davies, Laursen, Shorey, Reo-Coker, Petrov, Barry, Ashley Young, Harewood, Agbonlahor

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 14 2008, 06:57 PM

Nope, I don't have enough pennies to afford things like that.

Gareth Barry told the club yesterday he was "Ready, willing and able" to play tonight. I'm sure he knows very well what the implications of him appearing tonight mean, and that he seems happy to stay with the club. Liverpool weren't willing to pay up £18m for him, now there's no chance for it.

What peeves me the most is they have came out and say they are not willing to pay £18m. So in my view, they should also say they're ending their interest in him, since we're not budging from our price and have told them countless times. But instead, they release statements saying they still want him. Pretty disgraceful really. Either pay up or shut up.. they do neither.

Hopefully we win, comfortabley. But you never know against these kinds of teams what to expect.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 14 2008, 07:05 PM

FT FH 1-4 Villa
-Barry, Young, Agbonlahor & Laursen with our goals.
-They created a few chances, deserved a goal.

Some other results

Haka Valkeakoski 0 - 4 Brondby
Legia Warsaw 1 - 2 FC Moscow
Stuttgart 2 - 1 Gyor
APOEL Nicosia 2 - 2 Red Star Belgrade
Djurgarden 2 - 1 Rosenborg
Stabaek 2 - 1 Rennes
Young Boys Bern 4 - 1 Debrecen
FC Copenhagen 3 - 1 Lillestrom
Zurich 1 - 1 Sturm Graz
AEK Athens 0 - 1 Omonia Nicosia
Siroki Brijeg 1 - 2 Besiktas
Lech Poznan 6 - 0 Grasshoppers
Vllaznia 0 - 3 Napoli
Man City 0 - 1 FC Midtjylland

Posted by: misha Aug 14 2008, 10:26 PM

Liverpool still would be able to use Barry in the CL. You can include one player from Uefa cup if they'll sign him eventually

Posted by: Locke Lamora Aug 14 2008, 10:28 PM

I hope Red Star Belgrade makes it through...
Anyway, Lillestrøm is surely out, Stabæk should make it an Rosenborg only needs to win 1-0 at home and SHOULD make it.

Posted by: Tennie Aug 14 2008, 10:49 PM

^^ Wait. So twice in two days Cypriot teams beat Greek teams? Is that in any way normal?

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 14 2008, 10:50 PM

That's not what I've heard. Sky Sports and BBC both say say he can not play in the Champions League until it starts back up again in February.

Posted by: Tennie Aug 14 2008, 10:51 PM

Sky's right on this one. If Barry were to transfer to the Scousers tomorrow, he wouldn't be able to play in any CL games for them until the end of the winter transfer market.

Posted by: misha Aug 14 2008, 10:58 PM

The tournament really starts in February anyway

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 14 2008, 11:13 PM

Nice start by Napoli. I wish them a long and good run in the UEFA cup/league..

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 28 2008, 05:13 PM

Man City have just saved themself huge embarassment. After losing the home leg 1-0 to Midjetallynd (or something like that), they've been out-played for 90 minutes in the away leg.. then Ched Evenas misses his header, it bounces off one of the Danish guys and goes in. Fluke own goal to save them from humiliation in the last minute.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 28 2008, 05:54 PM

FT 0-1. (1-1 agg.)

Penalties..

Posted by: han2503 Aug 28 2008, 06:00 PM

At what time will the draw be tomorrow?

Posted by: Giancarlo Aug 28 2008, 06:04 PM

If Man City won that PK shoot out... they are so lucky. They were awful from what I heard...

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 28 2008, 06:04 PM

City win 4-2 on penalties.. completely undeserved. Not sure what time the draw is.

Villa have to hold on to a 4-1 lead at home to FH. Fingers crossed we'll make it!

Posted by: Giancarlo Aug 28 2008, 06:05 PM

Hopefully Villa and City meet in this tournament... and you guys teach them a lesson.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 28 2008, 06:07 PM

How is it getting along?

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 28 2008, 06:09 PM

We have a terrible record against City, besides the game the other week. Hopefully they get Milan, City would get killed!

Though I'm not a Milan fan in the UEFA Cup, a conflict of interest for me..


City won 4-2. Corluka scored the winner.

Posted by: Giancarlo Aug 28 2008, 06:11 PM

Hmm... well maybe time to change that even more. I want City to be beaten... they just annoy me... it's mostly their chairman... if we had our full strength squad against City they would be finished.

And I hear you about the conflict of interest... would suck if it was Milan-Villa in the final heheh...

Posted by: vahid Aug 28 2008, 07:55 PM

Which stream will show the draw?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 28 2008, 08:38 PM

At least some satisfaction. How was Charlie anyway in the whole match?

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Aug 28 2008, 08:42 PM

Would be very interesting in milanfan if Milan vs Villa fixture arises

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 28 2008, 08:50 PM

He was about City's best player. He and Hart bailed the rest of the team out a few times, it could easily have been 3/4-0 to their opponents.


It would be indeed!

HT Villa 1-1 FH (5-2 agg.)
-Craig Gardner with our goal!

In a weird way I don't want us to really kill them, alot of their fans have been on the Villa forums saying how huge this game for them is, apparently the biggest team they've faced previously was Dunfermline! So it will be nice for their fans (Some very nice girl at the game, by the way! ) go away with a half decent result! I still want to win of course.. but not to the point of humiliation.

Posted by: Locke Lamora Aug 28 2008, 08:52 PM

Rosenborg just tore Swedish Djurgarden apart 5-0, 6-2 on aggregate. THAT, my friends, is humiliation.

Posted by: whoarethepatriots Aug 28 2008, 09:18 PM

I think the draw is at 13:00 CET or maybe GMT

Its definitely a noon draw

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 28 2008, 09:55 PM

I thought Djurgaden were meant to be half decent as well!

Villa finished 1-1 (5-2 agg.), not the greatest performance from an 'experimental' side, but it'll do. Any European game is great, it's been way too long since we last had it. But with the luck we've had lately, we'll probably draw some ridiculously good team tomorrow!

Posted by: Giancarlo Aug 28 2008, 09:58 PM

Milan?

I better stop saying it, or I might jinx the situation.

Or possibly Napoli... that would suck too... Napoli trashed Villaznia... 5-0... to go through on the aggregate 8-0...

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 28 2008, 10:15 PM

I think the draw is split into two - North and South - then there are seeded and unseeded teams. I think Villa are in the north group, and seeded. I would presume Milan and Napoli would be in the south, so we won't get either.

Posted by: Giancarlo Aug 28 2008, 10:16 PM

Heheheh... Everton? Or maybe even Tottenham heheh?

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 28 2008, 10:30 PM

Not sure you're allowed to be drawn against teams from the same country. I'd ;like to play a Scottish team, if they have any!

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 28 2008, 10:59 PM

Oh yeah, they can be drawn...

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 28 2008, 11:26 PM

UEFA Cup 1st Round

*Seeding is determined by their UEFA Coefficient rating.
*The 80 teams are then split into 8 groups of 10 teams, 5 seeded teams and 5 unseeded teams.
*The draw for these is also based on their coefficient ranking with one exception: no country can have multiple teams in any group.
*These teams will play 2 legs, home and away, scheduled for 18 September and 2 October.
*The 40 winning teams will be divided into eight sections of five.

Seeded teams
Milan
Sevilla
Valencia
Benfica
Schalke 04
CSKA Moscow
Tottenham Hotspur
Hamburg
Stuttgart
Ajax
Olympiacos
Deportivo La Coruña
Everton
Club Brugge
Rapid Bucharest
Beşiktaş
Spartak Moscow
Paris Saint-Germain
Sparta Prague
Dinamo Bucharest
Heerenveen
Rosenborg
Udinese
Feyenoord
Sporting Braga
Levski Sofia
Austria Vienna
Slavia Prague
Manchester City
Galatasaray
Sampdoria
Hertha BSC Berlin
Partizan Belgrade
Nancy
Aston Villa
Portsmouth
Racing Santander
Rennes
Copenhagen
Hapoel Tel Aviv

Unseeded teams
Borussia Dortmund
Napoli
Brøndby
Litex Lovech
Vitória Guimarães
Dinamo Zagreb
Saint-Étienne
Zürich
Wolfsburg
Wisła Kraków
Vitória Setúbal
Marítimo
Standard Liège
Twente
Moscow
Artmedia Petržalka
Unirea Urziceni
Vaslui
Timişoara
NEC Nijmegen
Brann
Baník Ostrava
Kayserispor
Motherwell
Metalist Kharkiv
Red Bull Salzburg
BSC Young Boys
Bellinzona
Cherno More
Nordsjælland
Borac Čačak
Kalmar
MŠK Žilina
Lech Poznań
Slaven Belupo
APOEL Nicosia
Omonia Nicosia
Honka
Kaunas
St. Patrick's Athletic

So basically, you can not play a team in the first round that is:
1: In the same section as you (Seeded or unseeded); and
2: From the same country as you.

That's what I can tell from what I've ready anyways.

Posted by: acid911 Aug 28 2008, 11:54 PM

We seem to be in good company. A lot of my favorite clubs in there, in fact all of them, I like. All hail the UEFA Cup!

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 29 2008, 12:10 AM

You missed Villa off that list.

Nah, we'll probably get some 'average' team like Standard or Moscow and get knocked out, that's my feeling anyway.

Posted by: acid911 Aug 29 2008, 12:22 AM

Oh! I just took a cursory look at the first few. There's Villa, then there's Ajax, and Stuttgart. And Sampdoria. I'm amazed to see Villa seeded so low down though. It's a very decent club, unless they had a different method of seeding teams.


I think we'll do good. Then again, that depends a lot on Carlo. At the bare minimum the upper management would want him to finish 3rd and win UEFA Cup title. I'd pay attention to it (and the league, yes) if I were him.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 29 2008, 12:37 AM

UEFA co-efficients are done on the previous 5 seasons, as they think that's a good indicator of how good the club is compared to others in Europe. Every team is given a minimum co-efficient rating dependant on what country they are in, too. For example, you get more points just for playing in the English league, than you would if you won the Icelandic title or something.

So Villa technically have a rating of 0, since we haven't been in the UEFA Cup for a while. In the 90s it was the norm, not qualifying would be a disaster, but we disappeared at the turn of the century and were nearly relegated a few years ago. Thanks to the English league doing well in Europe in recent years, it's meant the league co-effeicient for England is high enough to make us a seeded team, even though we probably shouldn't be.


By "we'll go out" I meant Villa, I can see how it confused you though!

I personally think Milan could put out their second string and go far.

Posted by: acid911 Aug 29 2008, 12:42 AM

Aha! Makes sense.


Double Aha! For a second there I thought you meant Milan. I hope Carlo gives equal attention to both the fronts, and we win both of them. Plus, it'd be cool to somehow get Aston Villa in the final. It's be worth it, just to see your face once the final kicks off.

Posted by: Giancarlo Aug 29 2008, 12:56 AM

I checked the list and I think the only Scottish team is Motherwell...

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 29 2008, 01:08 AM

Yeah. Motherwell from Scotland or St. Patricks from Ireland. Either will do.

Posted by: vahid Aug 29 2008, 07:45 AM

The draw is on 12:00 GMT.EurosSport will show it.

Posted by: amancik Aug 29 2008, 10:34 AM

Hurm...that would be interesting won't it? Conflict of loyalty.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 29 2008, 12:15 PM

Gee, we're the first team to be drawn...

seems like we'll have to play against FC Zürich. Not the easiest opponent.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Aug 29 2008, 12:24 PM

Senderos can pay a visit to his hometown then. This is already working out for him.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 29 2008, 12:27 PM

Jack, you do always look on the bright side of life, ain't you?

Posted by: dst Aug 29 2008, 12:35 PM

Benfica Vs Napoli? Damn it, I like them both!

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 29 2008, 12:35 PM

Most interesting ties (beside Milan):

Everton - Standard Liege
Borussia Dortmund - Udinese
Napoli - Benfica
Sevilla - Salzburg

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 29 2008, 12:37 PM

Some good games there.

Spurs drew Wisla Krakow, which will not be easy at all. While Villa have Litex Lovech, one of the easier ties we could have had, thankfully.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 29 2008, 12:40 PM

Same with me. But I'm a bit more nostalgic for the ol' Napoli days...

Posted by: dst Aug 29 2008, 12:57 PM

That's a job for Alex Black to take care of!

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 29 2008, 01:27 PM

Now you're making fun of other teams names! You're a disgrace!

I hope we play a Greek team at some point, then I'll pay you to assassinate Alex Black, he's a grade A ****.

Posted by: vahid Aug 29 2008, 01:33 PM

I think our group will be this :

AC Milan
Partizan
Hertha Berlin
Spartak Moscow
Beşiktas

Posted by: dst Aug 29 2008, 02:25 PM

I'd love to do that. I hate superhuman comic book heroes!


A group of five teams. UEFA Cup is so lame!

Posted by: dst Aug 29 2008, 07:51 PM

The Super Cup... I've changed my mind about the UEFA Cup; I want us to win and beat the CL winners next August!

Posted by: acid911 Aug 29 2008, 07:56 PM

That's a good boy. I want the same. In fact, I want everything this season just to get over the loss of not qualifying for the CL. Scudetto plus UEFA Cup, and then the European Super Cup next year. Bring it on!

Posted by: Darunia Sep 1 2008, 08:53 PM

UEFA CUP 2008-2009: THE MLAN "A" LIST
9/1/2008

MILAN - The list of 25 players: GOALKEEPERS: Dida, Abbiati, Kalac; DEFENDERS: Maldini, Kaladze, Zambrotta, Jankulovski, Favalli, Senderos, Bonera, Darmian, Pasini, Antonini; MIDFIELDERS: Emerson, Gattuso, Pirlo, Ambrosini, Flamini; ATTACKERS: Pato, Inzaghi, Seedorf, Borriello, Kakà, Shevchenko, Ronaldinho.

Nesta not on the list. They can change it later right??

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 1 2008, 08:59 PM

You usually submit a list before every round. Round 1 is only 2 games, so they'll probably include him in the list for the group stage, should Milan get there.

Posted by: misha Sep 1 2008, 09:07 PM

No, as far as I remember, next time we can submit a list after the first round is after the January transfer window.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 1 2008, 09:10 PM

Ah, you could be right, yes.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 1 2008, 09:13 PM

Yup. Next transfer window. January 2009.

Posted by: Tennie Sep 2 2008, 12:35 PM

I don't think Nesta's exclusion from the list is that big a deal. There's speculation in the Italian press that his injury may mean he'll be out the majority of the season, but the fact that he's already running indicates to me that it won't be that bad.

In any event, traditionally for the initial 2 games and the group games, teams don't always field their strongest 11. Last year, for example, Fiorentina didn't field Montolivo for any of those games and Vieri played more of them than Mutu. Assuming that Milan makes it past the group stage, I expect the A team to be fielded then.

And...ack at Benfica-Napoli. That's hard. I like both teams!

Posted by: nnloso Sep 2 2008, 01:14 PM

excuse me ? dont be selfish. WE ALL WANT IT TOO !!

Posted by: acid911 Sep 2 2008, 01:52 PM

Easy for me. I don't like Napoli. Thanks for humiliating us right after we beat inter last year.

Posted by: Habitant Sep 2 2008, 02:00 PM

i think i'd go for napoli since serie a needs it. otherwise i'd edge out benfica.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 13 2008, 06:43 PM

Does anybody know if mediaset managed to get the rights for the UEFA Cup? I know R7 mentioned it awhile back but only said they were in negotiations

Posted by: Tennie Sep 16 2008, 04:45 PM

Here are Benfica's call ups for the Napoli game:

Portieri - Moreira, Moretto e Quim
Difensori - Leo, Luisão, Maxi Pereira, Sydney, Jorge Ribeiro e Miguel Vitor
Centrocampisti - Balboa, Binya, Carlos Martins, Di Maria, Katsouranis, Reyes, Ruben Amorim, Urreta, Yebda
Attaccanti - Nuno Gomes e Suazo

Pablito Aimar has an injury and is still training separately; ditto for David Luiz.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 17 2008, 08:10 AM

How are Benfica doing in the league? Can they win it this season?

Posted by: Tennie Sep 17 2008, 12:38 PM

They're comfortably in midtable right now, Jack. They've drawn both games (the Portuguese league has only played 2 so far). One of those draws was against Porto.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 18 2008, 04:10 PM

HT Litex 1-1 Villa. Litex are a better team than I thought, very composed on the ball, but we've been poor yet still have an away goal (And one that was wrongly disallowed! ) while missing 3 or 4 key players.

Reo-Coker has scored 2 goals in the last 3 days..

FT Litex Lovech 1-3 Villa. They had a player sent off for two yellow cards, then another cleared it off the line with his hand in a hilarious fashion, who was also sent off. Reo-Coker in the first half to equalise. Barry gave us the lead from a penalty, Petrov scored in the 92nd minute in his home country to give us a good victory.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 18 2008, 06:19 PM

So Napoli will be played at the same time as Milan ?

I wish them luck, I hope they go far in the competition

Posted by: Locke Lamora Sep 18 2008, 06:54 PM

Brann are leading 2-0 against Deportiva La Coruna, totally outplaying them.
I still hope Brann gets relegated at the end of the season, but if they eliminate Deportivo then that would be a huge victory for Norwegian football.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 18 2008, 07:24 PM

Funny, I want them out in the group stages. Arrogant little club driven on their past glories (Maradona), their fans are one of the most over the top and violent I've seen. Plus, they're playing Benfica today, more reasons for them to lose.


Thanks for the heads up about your country's league, Lock. I'll try and keep an eye out for these clubs, now that we're full and frontal in the UEFA Cup. I still can't believe it's happening. Then again, we deserved every inch of this, so that figures.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 18 2008, 07:24 PM

@ Locke ... Is that cookie counter broken ?!

Your missing a biscouti and some caviar from the piranha

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 18 2008, 07:25 PM

The UEFA studio on the Jazeera channel is ALL Milan.

Posted by: Locke Lamora Sep 18 2008, 07:35 PM

It isn't broken, Tennie hasn't been very generous lately.


@acid, I think Rosenborg has the best chance to make it through, as Brann has a reputation for buckling under pressure and far better teams than Brann have done so at the Riazor...

By the way, Brann translates into "fire" in Norwegian, not an actual flame, but rather a fire.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 18 2008, 07:44 PM

That's good to hear. The only club I knew of previously from the NPL was of course, Roesenberg. I think they won the league last year. As for Tennie, forget generous, she hasn't been around as much lately. Pity.

PS. You lucky creature, R7. I don't usually seem to get the Jazeera channel whether on satellite or stream.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 18 2008, 07:45 PM

It begins, then. Our new adventure.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 18 2008, 07:49 PM

Random Pola factoid: Mario Gomez is the lone top scorer in the UEFA Cup at the moment with 2 goals. I hope we play them further in the tournament, so our management can take a look at them. We were in for Adebayor, Gomez is miles ahead of him.

Dida's first official game in six months. I miss Paolo, he could/should have played a part in the game even as a substitute. Gattuso sitting on the bench meaning business. Bright start but both our strikers taking the slow way forward. Pato makes a good run, but still needs work. Oh, and before I forget.

Forza Milan!

Posted by: Locke Lamora Sep 18 2008, 07:50 PM

Rosenborg, actually.
And they did win the league in the 06 season, nice...what's the word? Remembered?

Damn, the Milan game has started? And I can't watch it. Grngh.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 18 2008, 08:29 PM

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLL

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 18 2008, 08:31 PM

Other HT Results:

Dortmund down against Udinese by 2

Napoli up against Benfica 2-1

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 18 2008, 08:43 PM

3-0 for Sampdoria ... Good to see the Italian sides are doing well

Posted by: Locke Lamora Sep 18 2008, 08:49 PM

Bellinzona 2-3 Galataray, goal by Kewell and a brace from Baros.

Borac 0-2 Ajax.

Posted by: gal_kenny Sep 18 2008, 09:44 PM

5-0 SAMP

Posted by: vahid Sep 18 2008, 10:13 PM

Udinese beat Borussia Dortmund in Germany by 2 goals,well done

The result of the another matches in our group was this:

Timişoara-Partizan 1–2
Hertha BSC-St. Patrick's Athletic 2–0
Baník Ostrava-Spartak Moscow 0–1
Beşiktaş-Metalist Kharkiv 1–0

Posted by: acid911 Sep 18 2008, 10:28 PM

Other results around the globe:

Milan vs FC Zürich (3–1) No comment.
Baník Ostrava vs Spartak Moscow (0–1)
Portsmouth vs Vitória Guimarães (2–0)
Kayserispor vs Paris Saint-Germain (1–2)
Marítimo vs Valencia (0–1)
Dinamo Zagreb vs Sparta Prague (0–0)
Omonia vs Manchester City (1–2) The Brazilian stole the show with two goals. No not Robinho, but Jo.
Young Boys vs Club Brugge (2–2) Huh? Weird names!
Everton vs Standard Liège (2–2)
Napoli vs Benfica (3–2) Forza Benfica!
APOEL vs Schalke 04 (1–4) Pun always intended.
Litex Lovech vs Aston Villa (1–3) Fun time in England, I presume?
Brøndby vs Rosenborg (1–2)
Borac vs Ajax (1–4)
Tottenham Hotspur vs Wisła Kraków (2–1)
Borussia Dortmund vs Udinese (0–2)
Hamburg vs Unirea Urziceni (0–0)

Posted by: vahid Oct 3 2008, 11:35 AM

The draw for the group stage of the 2008–09 UEFA Cup will be held at UEFA Headquarters in Nyon, Switzerland, at 12:00CET on 7 October 2008. The 40 teams in the draw will be divided into five pots based on their UEFA coefficients.One team from each pot will be drawn for each group, with the restriction that no team may be drawn with one from the same country.

Pot 1

Italy Milan
Spain Sevilla
Spain Valencia
Portugal Benfica
Germany Schalke 04
Russia CSKA Moscow
England Tottenham Hotspur
Germany Hamburg



Pot 2

Germany Stuttgart
the Netherlands Ajax
Greece Olympiacos
Spain Deportivo
Belgium Club Brugge
Russia Spartak Moscow
France Paris Saint-Germain
the Netherlands Heerenveen



Pot 3

Norway Rosenborg
Italy Udinese
the Netherlands Feyenoord
Portugal Braga
the Czech Republic Slavia Prague
England Manchester City
Turkey Galatasaray
Italy Sampdoria



Pot 4

Germany Hertha BSC
Serbia Partizan
France Nancy
England Portsmouth
England Aston Villa
Spain Racing Santander
Denmark Copenhagen
Croatia Dinamo Zagreb



Pot 5

France Saint-Étienne
Germany Wolfsburg
Belgium Standard Liège
the Netherlands Twente
the Netherlands NEC
Ukraine Metalist Kharkiv
Poland Lech Poznań
Slovakia Žilina

Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 3 2008, 12:07 PM

Pot 4, damn it.

A group with Hamburg, Brugge, Braga and Zelina will do nicely. I suppose being a 4th seed we aren't even expected to get out of the group stage.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 3 2008, 05:00 PM

^^^

For a second I thought you meant Milan. I read through Pot 4 twice looking for AC Milan.

Posted by: Habitant Oct 3 2008, 05:31 PM

we couldd potentially get a very tough group, with 2-3 quality opponents.

Posted by: acid911 Oct 3 2008, 05:36 PM

Which is never a bad thing, IMHO. If you have to win a competition, win it by beating quality teams!

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Oct 3 2008, 05:52 PM

Twice Captain...jeez!
I mean I feel for it the first time as well...but as I came across Villa I instantly remember it was Kurt, so I put 2 and 2 together.

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Oct 3 2008, 05:54 PM

+1 I couldn't have said it better...
Besides were a CL quality side that just happened to turn up to the wrong tournament this time, thats all.
No excuses!!! (theres no side 'too' tough for us)

Posted by: acid911 Oct 3 2008, 06:15 PM

Pirates aren't particularly good with maths. For them 2 and 2 together is 22.


Exactly. No team was too tough for us when we were in the Champions League, more so seeing that we're the number one ranked club in the world. Same should be the case in the UEFA Cup. Like you put: No excuses!

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Oct 3 2008, 06:22 PM

Ohh I see.
LOL - now it makes sense!

Posted by: Locke Lamora Oct 3 2008, 07:46 PM

Not anymore, Boca has pulled level.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 3 2008, 08:41 PM

Yep, the sooner the team gets into the habit of putting in 100% against good teams the better. you don't want an easy road to the SFs or something where you haven't had to do much, then some other team is already in the grove of things while you still aren't prepared to play properly.

I would actually like Milan and Villa to be drawn in the same group. Since the top 3 go through, I don't think us having one top team would hurt too much. We'd lose to Milan for sure, but I'm hardly scared of most of the teams in pots 2 and 3, only a few we'd struggle against I think. Hopefully it's played at Villa Park too, so I can get to see Milan at last!

Posted by: acid911 Oct 4 2008, 05:38 AM

True, but we still were the number one team in UEFA standings the last time I checked. That's good enough for me!

Posted by: dst Oct 4 2008, 01:06 PM

??? What? When did that happen? Anyway it's for the better, now we'll remove that silly tag...

Posted by: Locke Lamora Oct 4 2008, 04:16 PM

They won their 4th Recopa Sudamericana in august.

Posted by: Darunia Oct 6 2008, 05:53 PM

Psh.. they need to get it right.

Posted by: acid911 Oct 6 2008, 06:02 PM

Bumbling bumblebees! I still believe it was eight times: Oh, Istanbul!

Posted by: vahid Oct 7 2008, 03:18 PM

An average group!

Posted by: Devillito Oct 7 2008, 03:32 PM

That's not looking good
Playin with such team, with Carlo playing 2DMFs,
and all the hype and expectation to see a giant winning,
a panic button and Bob is your uncle..

Well, lets hope for a tactical reshuffle.
Carlo simply need to step up. Kaka too.
R80 too. Pato too. Urgh, everyone for that matter!!

Posted by: acid911 Oct 8 2008, 11:10 AM

You can say that again! I wanted Villa in the group stages!

Posted by: Tennie Oct 24 2008, 12:28 AM

So, Milan won their game.

Here are the full results for today:

Matchday 1 - 23 October 2008

Schalke 3-1 PSG
Twente 1-0 Racing
Galatasaray 1-0 Olympiacos
Hertha 1-1 Benfica (Di Maria with the Benfica goal)
Sevilla 2-0 Stuttgart
Partizan 1-2 Sampdoria
Udinese 2-0 Tottenham (Di Natale and Pepe goals. Spurs were dreadful).
Dinamo Zagreb 3-2 NEC
Heerenveen 1-3 Milan
Braga 3-0 Portsmouth
Žilina 1-2 Hamburg (Hamburg goals by the Croatian strikers Petric and Olic)
Aston Villa 2-1 Ajax (Villa goals by Laursen and Barry)
København 1-3 St Etienne
Rosenborg 0-0 Club Brugge
CSKA Moskva 3-0 Deportivo
Nancy 3-0 Feyenoord

Posted by: Habitant Oct 24 2008, 03:30 AM

i have a buddy who is a braga fan, he must be delighted.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 6 2008, 10:57 PM

Slavia Prague 0-1 Villa, Carew. We made alot of changes to the team, dropping the likes of Friedel, Laursen, L Young, Barry, Milner and Petrov from the team but a really good result. Brad Guzan was simply outstanding in goal, made 2 or 3 top class saves, good stuff.

Spurs won 4-0, Bent hat-trick and Huddlestone.

Man City beat Steve McClarens FC Twente 3-2, great goals from Robinho and SWP included.

Posted by: acid911 Nov 6 2008, 11:07 PM

Posted by: acid911 Nov 6 2008, 11:08 PM

I bet he isn't too delighted now, is he? A goal in the 93rd minute, baby, a la inter!

Posted by: acid911 Nov 17 2008, 10:18 AM

Um, actually there are two stadiums in Istanbul. This one isn't that one, it's a smaller capacity (50,000 versus the 70,000 seater in that game against Livepool), and one solely built for football as opposed to football and athletics. Plus, it's the home of Fenerbahçe, and is on the UEFA 5-star stadium list, so I'm not complaining:



On a related note, I'm surprised to see England only has one UEFA 5-star stadium. The Old Trafford. Wonder why is that, there should be a couple more, at least. Italy has two (the obvious ones), and both Germany and Spain have five stadiums each on the list. Skittles, Portugal has three of them, for Pete's sake.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 17 2008, 02:14 PM

Wembley and the Eimirites aren't 5-star?

Posted by: acid911 Nov 17 2008, 02:36 PM

Nope. And I was really surprised to see that today. I'd have expected at least 3-4, if not more in the top, seeing as both Germany and Spain has them. Even Portugal has three, and from first sight they don't come across as overly big or famous when compared to Wembley and Emirates. Shtick, even Scotland has two. So does Turkey.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 17 2008, 02:49 PM

I think there must be a mistake with that then, because the 4-star rated stadia in England are: Villa Park, Anfield, St. Mary's Stadium, the Stadium of Light and the City of Manchester Stadiu. I just can't see Wembley or the Eimirites being any lower than that.

@ St. James' Park not even being the highest rated stadium in the North East!

Posted by: LaPalma Nov 17 2008, 02:54 PM

Especially since the new Wembley is known as the best football stadium in the world It was five times as expensive as the Allianz Arena in Munich.....has to be highest category.

Posted by: Kaka Is Brilliant Nov 17 2008, 11:36 PM

Yeah that's got to be wrong the new Wembley is one of the most prestigious in the game now.

I mean it certainly beats most of the ones listed.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 3 2008, 11:21 PM

UEFA Cup - Group A

FC Twente Enschede 2 - 1 Schalke
Manchester C. 0 - 0 Paris S.G.


UEFA Cup - Group B

Hertha BSC 0 - 1 Galatasaray
Metalist Kharkiv 1 - 0 Olympiakos Piraeus


UEFA Cup - Group C

Sevilla 3 - 0 Partizan Belgrade
Standard Liege 3 - 0 Sampdoria


UEFA Cup - Group D

Spartak Moscow 1 - 2 NEC Nijmegen
Udinese 2 - 1 Dinamo Zagreb

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 5 2008, 12:14 AM

UEFA Cup - Group E

SC Heerenveen 1 - 2 Braga
Wolfsburg 3 - 2 Portsmouth


UEFA Cup - Group F

Aston Villa 1 - 2 Zilina
Slavia Prague 0 - 2 Hamburger SV


UEFA Cup - Group G

FC Copenhagen 1 - 1 Rosenborg
Valencia 1 - 1 Club Brugge


UEFA Cup - Group H

Lech Poznan 1 - 1 Deportivo La Coruna
Nancy 3 - 4 CSKA Moscow

Can't believe we lost tonight. Zilina had about 2 attempts on goal.

The most amazing thing though, is the referees incompetence in the game. Ashley Young was fouled about 8/9 times, 6 or 7 was from behind.. 1 red card? What a joke.

On a brighter note for us. Nathan Delfouneso scored on his full debut, he's only 17 and it was a great 20 yard volley. Had this been a 17 year old from Barca, Liverpool, etc. you'd be hearing about he's the next Pele.

Posted by: Habitant Dec 5 2008, 12:21 AM

ya i encountered him when i was managing leeds, i was raiding everyone's youth academies

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 5 2008, 12:27 AM

Stop stealing our kids!

Anyways, the standings as of now:

Posted by: MizNelson Dec 5 2008, 04:50 AM

Milan have dropped to second in UEFA Cup Group E as a David James error helped Wolfsburg secure a thrilling 3-2 victory over Portsmouth.

The Rossoneri are guaranteed to progress to the last 32 after rescuing a 2-2 draw with Portsmouth last week.

But Italian-inspired German outfit Wolfsburg have taken control in Group E after a dramatic win over Pompey in a five-goal thriller.

The Bundesliga side led through Edin Dzeko in just the third minute but Jermain Defoe levelled eight minutes later.

Portsmouth led through Arnold Mvuemba, but Christian Gentner equalised.

An error from Portsmouth goalkeeper David James proved costly as Zvjezdan Misimovic was left with an open goal and he clinched the three points.

The result ensures that Portsmouth are out of the UEFA Cup after Portuguese side Braga saw off hapless Heerenveen 2-1.

Milan have the chance to win the group when they host Wolfsburg on December 17.

(Channel 4)

James has always had a nasty habit of doing that. When we played them, he was way out of his penalty area and was saved only by Pippo chipping the ball onto the top of the net.

Posted by: LaPalma Dec 5 2008, 10:23 AM

Ahhh....Misimovic...what a player. I miss the times when he played for Bochum. A brilliant football player. Wolfsburg vs. Milan is gonna be an interesting match IMO.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 16 2008, 09:59 PM

Well, I'm not looking forward to the game against Hamburg tomorrow.. As we're already through to the last 32, we've decided to rest a few players. Gareth Barry, James Milner, Gabby Agbonlahor, Ashley Young and Martin Laursen haven't even travelled with the squad, Freddie Bouma and John Carew are still out with injury, so this leaves us playing with practically a reserve side.

On the bright side, we've called up 6 of our youth prospects for the game, I don't think any of them will play, but I'm sure the experience of training with some of the first team can dono harm.

Prediction: Hamburg 3-1 Villa

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 16 2008, 10:03 PM

Are you sure Kurt?

My prediction - 2:2
Hope Milan avoids Villa.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 16 2008, 10:14 PM

I think our style of play suits playing in Europe, particularly away from home.. but that's 6 important players we aren't taking, and in all seriousness we don't have the biggest strongest/squad in the World to cope with it in my opinion.

If Hamburg/Villa is a draw and Ajax win, or Hamburg beat Villa and Ajax win/draw. Combined with a Milan win, it could very well be Milan vs Villa in the last 32. I also don't want that to happen! Istanbul maybe?

Posted by: Tennie Dec 16 2008, 10:15 PM

Until the final at least, Fillipo. If they meet in the final, I can wear my jersey and fishdoll can wear his flying antlers.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 17 2008, 09:38 PM

As I expected, Hamburg are beating us quite comfortabley (2-0 at the half). But regardless of todays score I'm going to try and not get all worked up about it, in the last 32 of the UEFA Cup while playing a team of reserves in 3 of the games is a decent acheivment for us, hell, getting into the last 32 of the UEFA Cup playing your best team is an acheivement. Hope some of the youth players get a run out.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 17 2008, 10:39 PM

Spot on.

Though the scoreline, and the game was a bit harsh on us. At 2-0 down, their keeper goes in two-footed on Craig Gardner, should have been sent off and a penalty given. Then at probably 2-1 and againt 10 men we'd have a good chance. But no, the referee decides to play on while half of our team is attending to Gardner on the floor, they break and score to make it 3-0. Nathan Delfouneso get his 2nd goal in 2 starts for the club, great future ahead of him. Then to top of the excellent even the referee has, Steve Sidwell gets esnt off for putting his arm on a player who then throws himself to the ground. I would understand this, but when the referee allows two-footed tackles..

Hamburg are a good side, not a bad result considering our line-up and referee. Bring on the last 32 and I hope Gardner is okay.

Posted by: Habitant Dec 18 2008, 10:41 PM

Sampdoria 1 - 0 Sevilla

samp are through to the next round

Posted by: Tennie Dec 18 2008, 10:44 PM

+1 cookie to Cassano & co. Well done to them.

Posted by: dst Dec 18 2008, 10:46 PM

And I think Sevilla are out!?

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 18 2008, 10:56 PM

Yep.

So the draw for the next round is on Friday. Teams that won their group will be paired off against teams that finished 3rd in the group, teams that finished 2nd will be paired off against Champions League drop-outs. As far as I am aware, teams from the same country CAN NOT play each other in the Ro32. Teams that were in the same group can also not play each other.

Group winners
Man City, Metalist, Standard, Udinese, Wolfsburg, Hamburg, St. Etienne, CSKA Moscow.

Champions League drop-outs
Bordeaux, Bremen, Shakhtar, Marseilles, Aalborg, Fiorentina, Dynamo Kyiv, Zenit St. Petersburg.

Group Runners-Up
FC Twente, Galatasary, Stuttgart, Tottenham, Milan, Ajax, Valencia, Deportivo.

Group 3rd place finishers
PSG, Olympiakos, Sampdoria, NEC, Braga, Aston Villa, Copenhagen, Lech

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Dec 19 2008, 11:50 AM

^^^

Great ... but who do Milan play out of the three catergories ?

Posted by: weeeow Dec 19 2008, 01:34 PM

ROUND OF 32 AC MILAN VS WERDER BREMEN!

ROUND OF 16 WINNER OF (AC MILAN VS WERDER BREMEN) VS WINNER OF (OLYMPIAKOS VS SAINT ETIENNE)

Should be interesting...

Posted by: Zed.D Dec 19 2008, 01:36 PM

At least our players will find some motivation in playing Bremen...

Posted by: Zed.D Dec 19 2008, 01:38 PM

I think Bremen will eliminate us.

Posted by: dst Dec 19 2008, 01:50 PM

We might play Olympiacos... that would be interesting...

Posted by: Zed.D Dec 19 2008, 01:52 PM

Especially for you

Posted by: dst Dec 19 2008, 02:58 PM

Most of my friends support Olympiacos... it's already started!

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 19 2008, 06:24 PM

Milan got it easy.

We have CSKA Moscow (away in the 2nd leg!) then we play the winners of Spurs vs Shakhtar. Villa vs Spurs in the last 16? That would be superb!

Posted by: vahid Dec 19 2008, 06:42 PM

The First leg is in Bremen on February 18/19, second leg at San Siro on February 26

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 19 2008, 08:06 PM

That's a shock! Why?

Posted by: Tennie Dec 19 2008, 08:08 PM

Bremen's defense has been (so far this season) even more porous than Milan's. The attack hasn't compensated for it either. I do generally like Bremen but they've got issues this year. We could've gotten more difficult opponents.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 19 2008, 08:09 PM

Yes indeed Bremen has a dreadfull defense. It all depends on wether Rosenberg, Diego and the others catch a good day.

Posted by: MizNelson Dec 19 2008, 11:59 PM

Is Tim Wiese still in goal for Bremen?

Posted by: Tennie Dec 20 2008, 12:01 AM

Yep.

Posted by: MizNelson Dec 20 2008, 01:01 AM

Is he that bad as so many have made him out to be?

Posted by: Tennie Dec 20 2008, 01:13 AM

The Portuguese term 'Frango' would probably fit for Wiese. He's a decent enough keeper, but is prone to some really shocking lapses. Add to this a really serious 'I am a god' attitude. Probably spends more on hair gel than Cristiano Ronaldo.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 20 2008, 02:54 AM

So he's a mix of Hilarious Gomes and Cristiano Ronaldo!? What did he do to deserve being him!?

Posted by: Tennie Dec 20 2008, 02:56 AM

Kurt, as for Villa's draw, CSKA will be in their off-season. The Russian league breaks for winter. This could be a really good or a really bad thing - there may be fitness issues for their players. Akinfeev is a cracking keeper though. Really quite good. Gonna be really effing cold in Moscow in February though.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 20 2008, 03:16 AM

I was looking at that off-season thing, but CSKA won the competition in '05 and Zenit in '08 so it can't be that much of a factor. Take into consideration that Villa started the season in mid-July, we could start to see the effects of a long season set in. Another downside is the 2nd leg is in Moscow, but this could turn in our favour if we take a lead over there. I'd love to see how they try and cope with our counter attacking pace when they are forced to attack us.

I'd almost rather go out to CSKA than get knocked out to Spurs in the last 16, that'd be horrible. Spurs get the home leg 2nd as well.

I really can't wait for the home leg! European nights are really special, even the group game against Ajax was incredible. I'm so looking forward to it already!

Posted by: Habitant Dec 20 2008, 04:19 AM

i remember this one well, i was quite annoyed....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDzEc0IGuck

Posted by: Kaka Is Brilliant Dec 20 2008, 03:54 PM

I remember this! Remember thinking at the time how is that possible and why did he roll over in the first place?!

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Dec 20 2008, 09:03 PM

Bremen are in trouble .. They were a force to reckon with two or so years down the line, but right now .. There is not much to fear.

I think Milan got it easy too

Posted by: dst Dec 22 2008, 05:41 PM

Diego is alone... and he's almost everything for Werder attacking-wise. We limit him, we limit Werder... and that's not so hard to do judging from the games I've seen.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 22 2008, 07:04 PM

Well I've said that we'll get through Werder but...it isn't just Diego. Pizarro, Rosenberg and Özil. They are too very dangerous. Yes, Diego is a key player. But we should not neglect them.

Posted by: LaPalma Dec 24 2008, 11:51 AM

I agree with Fillipo. This Werder might not be as good as the one of 2004 or 2005 but they shouldn't be underestimated. If they have a good day they can beat any team. And against Inter Özil showed that he's capable of replacing Diego. As well as Pizza he should always be considered a thread. Bremens defense though has HUGE problems.

Posted by: amancik Feb 2 2009, 12:21 AM

UEFA CUP 2008/2009: THE OFFICIAL LIST
2/2/2009
MILAN - The list is of 25 players:
GOALKEEPERS: Dida, Abbiati, Kalac; DEFENDERS: Maldini, Kaladze, Zambrotta, Jankulovski, Favalli, Senderos, Bonera, Darmian, Pasini, Antonini, Nesta; MIDFIELDERS: Gattuso, Pirlo, Ambrosini, Flamini, Beckham; STRIKERS: Pato, Inzaghi, Seedorf, Kakà, Shevchenko, Ronaldinho.

I didn't know we had 6 strikers...

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Feb 2 2009, 01:15 AM

Pasini? Why not Strasser? Or Cardacio?

Why is Gattuso there? What kind of list is this?

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Feb 2 2009, 02:11 AM

Yea but Seedorf certainly isn't one...
WTF happended to Boriello though!?

Posted by: amancik Feb 2 2009, 05:33 AM

FYI, Boriello suffered another setback...sadly
he'll be out for another 1 month if I'm not mistaken

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Feb 2 2009, 04:30 PM

Ah well, you might as well get used to it .. The website will always refer to these players as forwards

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Feb 3 2009, 06:36 AM

They're attackers, not strikers.

Anybody who has no defensive responsibility is considered as an attacker.

Posted by: Tennie Feb 3 2009, 12:29 PM

The changes to the UEFA Cup list were the additions of Beckham and Nesta and the removal of Emerson and Borriello. I really feel bad for Borriello, as he's gone from one injury to another.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Feb 3 2009, 03:05 PM

Yes...I wonder if he's going to put us through an Ambro cycle. Just when we've given up on him and brought in a good replacement, he regains full fitness.

Posted by: acid911 Feb 4 2009, 02:44 PM

Milan wants Gattuso to be in the squad, if somehow we manage to miraculously win the UEFA Cup. This way, he'll add another title to his list of wins in Milan. I see no other reason, even if he gets fit towards the end of the season, we better save him for the last four crucial Serie A matches.


2 months, as a matter of pure fact.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Feb 4 2009, 02:51 PM

Well Gattuso is a key player for Milan .. Hence it is only natural he will be drafted in the UEFA list for Milan.

And about Borriello ... As much as I want him back, and believe Milan would be even more dangerous with him upfront .. I have my reservations about him making an impact this season.

Posted by: Tennie Feb 4 2009, 04:03 PM

They've named the refs for these games early.

English referee Mike Dean is calling Bremen-Milan (to be played on Feb. 18).

Guys who really follow the English league - is this a good thing or a bad thing?

EDIT: We have a Romanian referee named Tudor for the return leg.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Feb 4 2009, 04:16 PM

And english referee for a german team,..

Posted by: kurtsimonw Feb 4 2009, 09:51 PM

Mike Dean is a decent ref, wouldn't worry about him making any bad decisions, one of the better ones in the EPL.

Posted by: dst Feb 16 2009, 12:24 AM

Win the damn thing, I wanna see Paolo lift it!!!

Posted by: Locke Lamora Feb 16 2009, 12:26 AM

That and the european super cup would be a nice finale.

Posted by: Tennie Feb 16 2009, 12:28 AM

Well, on the bright side of things, Bremen isn't playing particularly well this season. They make our defense look....like it was when Tassotti-Baresi-Costacurta-Maldini were our backline. (Bremen's defense is REALLY leaky).

Posted by: dst Feb 16 2009, 12:33 AM

Why the explanation, you think we're so dumb? It cheered me up.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Feb 16 2009, 01:20 AM

Still, Diego is top-fit for that match, and Özil + Pizarro are also in form. Nothing more then a warning, but..

Posted by: MizNelson Feb 16 2009, 03:04 AM

Looks like Carlo will turn his sights toward this now that he's declared the Scudetto out of reach.

Posted by: acid911 Feb 16 2009, 05:38 AM

And this probably means Abbiati will start between posts now, not Dida. I could be wrong, though.

But if we kind of finish 2nd, and reach the UEFA Cup final, suddenly I'm not sure of the Brazilian starting. Whoever does, I hope puts up a good show, we'll need this win now, not the least because it's the last in this format, we haven't won it, and it'll be a gift for Paolo. Suddenly, this doesn't look so bad now. Go win this, boys!

Posted by: kurtsimonw Feb 16 2009, 05:46 AM

The last trophy Paolo ever stands a chance of winning, and I'll be happy if he doesn't win it. The World of football can be mean.

Posted by: acid911 Feb 16 2009, 05:53 AM

Huh? Meaning? I just slept a couple of hours after the match, so maybe that's the reason, but you don't want Maldini winning this, or won't mind if he doesn't? I, personally, feel he has won things other players can only dream about while they sleep. And he's also won what other players can't quite dream about. That and more.

So basically, I'd like us to win, and win it good, but if we don't it won't nearly bother me as much!

Posted by: kurtsimonw Feb 16 2009, 06:01 AM

No, nothing to do with that.

There's a certain other club in the competition, who're facing CSKA Moscow in the next round.

Posted by: MizNelson Feb 16 2009, 06:49 AM

If so, that would be a slap in the face, considering that he's held his own in the competition so far (emphasis on "so far"). Besides, there's still a Champions League spot that Gobbiati and crew have to work for.

Kurt: You're saying you would be happy if Paolo DIDN'T win the UEFA Cup?

Posted by: acid911 Feb 16 2009, 08:29 AM

Why, of course, how could I forget that. That certain other club sure has it's work cut out in these next few weeks. If they play as EPL 3rd placers, then they'll do rather fine. But it's the only other match beside Milan that I'm interested in, once the UEFA Cup circus comes back to town.


Agreed. Still a long way to go, but I hope if Milan has to deliver in the UEFA Cup, go till the end, then players like Dida and Maldini and Ronaldinho stand there in the spotlight, instead of Seedorfs, Abbiatis and Emersons.


No, he means he'll be happy if Paolo didn't win it, but Aston Villa did. Oh, he's a sly little Kurt, huh?

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Feb 16 2009, 08:41 AM

I had a different four letter word in mind..but oh well...

Posted by: acid911 Feb 16 2009, 09:48 AM

Posted by: Zed.D Feb 16 2009, 10:50 AM

From the very beginning it was obvious we're not good enough for the Scudetto. thank we still have a cup to play for

Posted by: MizNelson Feb 16 2009, 10:53 AM

Clod.

Posted by: dst Feb 16 2009, 10:56 AM

Inter were the favorites but in reality if we lose the scudetto it will be because we failed to beat the worst teams, not because we were inferior to the best. We would be more than good enough if Nesta was here... obviously.

Posted by: Zed.D Feb 16 2009, 11:27 AM

Completely agreed. I have always believed in the saying title is won against small sides.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Feb 16 2009, 11:36 AM

I also think, the lack of a genuine physical threat upfront hurt us badly. Especially with teams who clam up, and park the bus. For instance against Reggina, we were putting in aerial balls and crosses, not all of them bad, but we had no one upfront, who could cope against the defenders physically to win it. We lack a monster upfront like Toni or Drogba. Borriello's absence has made us suck in that aspect.

So this is where I'll disagree slightly with you all. I don't think we lost points coz our defence was bad, but because our attack was stifled. Yesterday was one of the handful of matches where our defence lost us the game. Against the big teams, no matter how good your attack is, your defence has to hold up. While against the smaller teams Milan can safely have the score one goal more attitude.

We did in theory address the physical presence issue, with Borriello, but then his injury has completely derailed it.

Posted by: acid911 Feb 16 2009, 11:52 AM

Feel free to crucify me for saying this but Borriello is overrated. Massively, I may add. One good season does not a great player make. You're having trouble unlocking defenses, we should have brought back Ronaldo. Or bought someone else. I know he's a hard worker, and Milan youth players, but take a look at his goal scoring record - that too for an in-and-out strikers:

Milan 16 (1)
Triestina 9 (1)
Treviso 27 (10)
Empoli 12 (1)
Reggina 29 (2)
Sampdoria 11 (2)
Treviso 19 (5)
Geona 35 (19)
Milan 7 (1)

He is not an attacking midfielder like Gourcuff, nor a mix bag like Kaka, nor a forward like Pato or Sheva. He's a hitman, a deep lying goal scorcher, who's only job is to go out and net the goals. And frankly the results are there for all to see. Even in the 7 games he played now, scored 1 goal (with guys like R80, Kaka, Pirlo and Seedorf behind him), that's beyond pathetic. It was all revealed in a game where he messed up four or five clear chances. I must admit I bought into the hype pre-season, and the only reason why I'm not completely ruling him out is because he's injured (which is a funking sad state of affair in of itself, if you ask me), and while he's maybe added something to our game when he played, the guy never got a long run for himself. Yet.

But frankly a guy who loses confidence because his flame (girlfriend) leaves him, and his performances starts suffering is just meh. Just ask Inzaghi and how many intimate relationships he had? Never let your personal life affect your career, and vice versa. For me, he's been the flop of the season in Italian football, along with Quaresma.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Feb 16 2009, 11:53 AM

Well, in our scudetto-winning season I remember us struggle and fight till the last minute. There were matches we won in extra time. But the diffrence was, we didn't conceed, we kept our goal locked. Nowdays that's hard.

But I agree. Borriello out and Shevchenko more then just unfit and off-form, we have a striker issue.
Can we hold on to Borriello is the question?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Feb 16 2009, 11:59 AM

Hold it! Jack didn't say it's Borriello we need, he just said he is the only one who could make us profit from all these crosses and high balls. Of course Drogba would be better, but we had Borriello and I think it was more then just fair and reasonable to give him a shot!


I don't agree that he was beyond pathetic. From what I've seen, he was good, and with Beckham in our team now, he could be even better.


I don't know why you overreact that way! Gee, the guy played a few matches and then went injured!! How can he be a flop??

Posted by: dst Feb 16 2009, 12:16 PM

The thing is it was not so... obvious that we would concede some late goals by the minnows...

Posted by: acid911 Feb 16 2009, 12:28 PM

I got what Jack meant, of course. And no I'm not downgrading him or writing him off. Not until he gets a fair amount of games under his belt, and his performance is better analyzed. I just believe it was not right bringing him back, we could have sold him for close to 20 million, and then bought in two decent (but similar quality) players, or one great and proven one.

He was nearly a nobody before his Genoa run, loaned day in and day out to various clubs. It's there that he got into his stride, had ONE good season, and had his stock price raised. For me, at least up until the displays I've seen from him this season, he came across as overrated. Not crap or useless, but let's say just not Milan quality.


Well, Oli scored 3 goals in 26 matches for us while he was here, and he was labeled way beyond pathetic. We sent him on loan to Zaragoza where he got 18 in 37, and then he was made permanent there, next season 10 in 18 matches. He too is a striker like Bori, and his job is to slot in the balls in the back of the net. So was Gila. From what you've seen Bori was good. And I agree. But he didn't score goals for us like he did for Genoa (when we had a far better and world class midfield than them). Looking good doesn't cut it for forwards/strikers, let's measure all of them with the same yardstick, shall we?

7 matches is too small a sample rate, but then again his performances didn't awe inspire me, and maybe that's the reason I'm getting more skeptic by the day. And now that our season has virtually ended, he is still nowhere to be seen. And it's not like he's 36, a young guy like him should be able to hold himself up. Most other do.


Overreact? Not the right word. Neither is flop, per se. I just meant he had a really bad season, which I'm sure you'll agree with. Maybe he'll turn it around in the last 10 games, maybe he'll come back stronger, who knows? All I know is that we shouldn't jump to conclusions, both you and me. Or anyone else. In a game like football, a lot can happen in a small time frame, so nothing is concrete. Up till now what is concrete is that he utterly and epically failed this year (compared to the highs Bori had last season, and not necessarily because of his game, but also because he suffered from a really serious injury and had to pull himself up from it). Someone we brought back, put faith in to help us land the Scudetto, win us games, score goals: He didn't/couldn't do that.

Remember we also paid 10 million to sign him back. Luckily those didn't come out of your pockets, or mine. So for us, it's very easy to paint a picture we want. Neither does he sell shirts like Kaka, Paolo, Nesta, R80, R99, Seedorf, Sheva, even Pato. He's not an established player. Everything taken into consent, not good Boriello, not good.

And besides there was quite a hoopla over his girlfriend leaving him on national TV, and then he got so depressed that his performance and body-language started dropping. A lot of my friends and even media saw it, the last few matches. It didn't help that he got injured. As far as I'm concerned, frankly, I want him back, if even for the last 10 matches to see how he shapes up after injury, and what he brings to the table.

Posted by: acid911 Feb 16 2009, 12:30 PM

Case in point: Lecce second goal. Two points given away, when we should have expected all three!

Posted by: Zed.D Feb 16 2009, 01:02 PM

Yes it was. every time we parked the bus in front of our goal after going up 1-0, I got this feeling that them minnows might score every moment. it was more than predictable.

Posted by: Zed.D Feb 16 2009, 01:15 PM

Cap, have you even watched these games' goals?

Bologna. Genoa. Lecce. Torino. Juventus. Roma. Genoa again. Reggina. Inter.

We lost points in all of above named games because of awful defending. it amazes me that you say our attack is more of a problem than our defense. just amazes me to no end...

I agree, however, that we need a big guy up there. that's one story, to put the blame on lacking such a striker when in fact suckastic defending almost always ruined everything for us, is another.


EDIT: Statistically we have the second best attack in the league with 41 goals (Inter have 42 goals).
On the other hand, we have the worst defense among the top 4 teams with 25 goals (Inter have conceded only 17 goals)

Even statistics don't back up what you say.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Feb 16 2009, 01:29 PM

Then you also read this...



Hence my point. Yup..we could have held on to a 1 goal lead if we had a super strong defence. But by that theory, you just need a super strong defence and an average offence, since you need just one goal. And vice versa too.

The advantage of having a big man is, you can lay back and defend your lead, while hoofing the ball up for the big guy. Which also means your opponents can't press you at will, without risking something or the other.It's a tactical thing, not directly translated into goals or whatever statistics.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Feb 16 2009, 01:37 PM

I agree we have a bad defensive situation right now, but Zd the technicall term of what you are doing is - "**** facts".

Isn't every conceeded goal automatically a bad mistake by the defenders? Just like in 1996, 1992, 1991 or 2008. That way you can bold out all matches we conceeded, but that's not the point.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I just say these facts and stats lead us into a trap.

However, I don't think we lost the Inter match because of awfull defending. Fact is, we defended awfully, but that didn't directly result our loss. If Adriano scored that one-on-one, if Ambro didn't tackle Stankovic and the game ended 4-1 or 3-1 you may have said it was of because of awfull defending. You read my post in the match postscriptum. I said what I think costed us the derby - fullbacks, tactics and possesion.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Feb 16 2009, 01:42 PM

Brilliant combo Capt'n.

Thing is - Milan, especially Ancelotti Milan, got used to the score-and-then-pull-back tactic. In every match we scored one and then one more, or maintained our offensive game-plan we won the whole package. But, in matches we scored and then locked up, things turned out bad mostly. Ancelotti should have changed or at least modified that? Maybe, but I wouldn't say it's just up to him anyway.

Posted by: Zed.D Feb 16 2009, 01:55 PM

@ JACK

Again, I'm not saying we don't need a big guy! my problem was that you specifically said we lost points because of our attack, not defense. that's totally unacceptable. if our attack hasn't been spectacular, our defense has been dire.

@ FILLIPO

I don't think facts & stats are always useless. the standings are also based on stats? are they useless?!... we have reached a point where the number of our conceded goals is as bad as Siena's for god's sake!

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Feb 16 2009, 01:56 PM

So when is the Bremen game ?±

Posted by: acid911 Feb 16 2009, 02:03 PM

Give or take February 18, I reckon. Dida power!

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Feb 16 2009, 02:06 PM

Haha yeah

Posted by: dst Feb 16 2009, 02:45 PM

I did not mean during the match... I mean at the beginning of the season. You're saying it was obvious that we could not win... then can you explain to me why you got happy when we reached 1st place or why you got angry when Genoa equalized at the very last moment? After all it was obvious that we would lose more points than our rivals that's why we would lose, right?
What I'm saying is, you can't say it was obvious and right it off just like that. Milan would not enter the field if it was so damn obvious and the title would be given to Inter by fax (they've done it before). All of us could see that Inter were the favorites but Milan DID have a chance to win and we did not lack in quality cause the point gap is a result of us stumbling against the bottom-placed teams.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Feb 16 2009, 03:54 PM

Every team has a chance, it's whether they have a realistc chance or not. In my opinion, only 1 team had a realistic chance of winning the title, and unless massive chances are made in the playing and none-playing staff at the club, it looks like there will only be 1 next season too, unless Juve also make changes.

Posted by: dst Feb 16 2009, 03:58 PM

Only in the last few games things could be very different. I don't think our chance was not realistic but anyway, this is subjective I guess.

I don't believe we need major changes either, but we do need a defense!

Posted by: acid911 Feb 16 2009, 04:05 PM

Saved me a whole lot of typing, Kurt. I wasn't too confident at the start of the season, because you know what, the usual suspects were still the same. And the way we funked up the CL spot after landing 4th, didn't help things. Neither did the friendly humiliations. What I mean to say is, there were signs of discomfort in the squad that were evident to the fans - to some less, to others more.

That's not to say I didn't believe. I wanted this team to win, and my eyes sparkled more than once this season, but deep down inside I always feared that whatever we put up, might not be enough. The players we loaned out, the players we signed, the amount we paid, the leaks (GK and CBs) we ignored, everything. I mean Carlo's job was far from secure and he knew it. But still.

Posted by: gal_kenny Feb 17 2009, 02:35 AM

Ten to watch in the UEFA Cup
Monday 16 February 2009e-mailPrintDiggSave

David Beckham (AC Milan)
With the likes of Pato, Ronaldinho, Kaká and Andrea Pirlo in the ranks Milan are the star attraction in the Round of 32, but the firmanent is shining even brighter since the addition of David Beckham. The 33-year-old, who is on loan from LA Galaxy, has surprised many with his impact in Serie A having left the European scene two years ago. A UEFA Champions League winner with Manchester United FC in 1998/99, he will be hoping to add the UEFA Cup to his long list of honours.

Danny (FC Zenit St. Petersburg)
Zenit have a ready-made replacement for Andrei Arshavin in their ranks with Russian record signing Danny looking to emulate his predecessor by leading the club to UEFA Cup glory. A €30m summer signing from FC Dynamo Moskva, he dazzled on his debut by scoring the winner against Manchester United in the UEFA Super Cup in August and, after settling quickly into the side, will be looking to hit the ground running in his first full campaign, starting on Wednesday against VfB Stuttgart.

Diogo Luis Santo (Olympiacos CFP)
After missing out on a place in the UEFA Champions League, Olympiacos are determined to make their mark on the UEFA Cup and with striker Diogo in brilliant form they could do just that. The Greek titleholders beat a host of top clubs to the 21-year-old Brazilian's signature last summer and his reputation has blossomed since. Strong in the air and with excellent technique, Diogo has taken Greek football by storm and impressed in Europe too, notably with a two-goal match-winning performance in a 5-1 rout of SL Benfica in the group stage.

Yoann Gourcuff (FC Girondins de Bordeaux)
Zinédine Zidane took Bordeaux all the way to the final in 1996 and they could go far again thanks to the sparkling form of playmaker Yoann Gourcuff. The 22-year-old has long drawn comparisons to the great Zizou and showed just why with a series of commanding performances during the UEFA Champions League group stage. With Milan set to recall Gourcuff from his loan spell at the end of the season, could he, like Zidane, be set for a final swansong?

Vágner Love (PFC CSKA Moskva)
Vágner Love scored in CSKA's UEFA Cup final win against Sporting Clube de Portugal four years ago and his competition-leading eight goals so far this term have got the club's fans dreaming of silverware again. The first leg against Aston Villa FC will be CSKA's first competitive game under new coach Zico, and with Love eager to force his way back into the Brazilian national side as well, the 24-year-old has plenty of reasons to impress.

Adrian Mutu (ACF Fiorentina)
Mutu scored six times in Fiorentina's run to the semi-finals last season and will be hoping to take his side one stage further this time around. Voted Romanian Player of the Year for the fourth time in December, the 30-year-old only found the net once in the Viola's UEFA Champions League group-stage campaign, but has brought the best out of prolific strike partner Alberto Gilardino.

Ivica Olić (Hamburger SV)
Olić may be on his way to FC Bayern München in the summer, but is intent on signing off on a high as HSV chase a UEFA Cup and Bundesliga double. The 29-year-old Croatian has had an outstanding campaign, with four goals in the UEFA Cup already, and his battling, tenacious style make him a firm favourite with the HSV faithful despite his imminent departure. "HSV is all that matters until the end of the season," Olić said. "I will give 100 per cent until the final whistle of the final game."

David Villa (Valencia CF)
The 27-year-old Spanish international needs no introduction – except in the UEFA Cup this season where he has been restricted to a single appearance as a substitute. With the competition now past the group stage, expect to see Villa unleashed sooner rather than later. With a return of 17 goals in 21 Liga games his inclusion would put Valencia right up among the favourites to reclaim the crown they won in 2004.

Axel Witsel (FC Standard de Liège)
It is no wonder some of Europe's biggest clubs are tracking Witsel, who was voted Belgian Player of the Year in January just a week after his 20th birthday. The dynamic, technically gifted attack-minded midfielder played in every minute as Standard's progressed from a tough Group C and his nonchalant style has fooled more than one opponent.

Ashley Young (Aston Villa FC)
Young was described as no less than a "genius" by his manager Martin O'Neill after scoring twice, including the 90th-minute winner, in victory against Everton FC in December. Even so, the 23-year-old winger is yet to fully deliver on his considerable promise – a frightening prospect for Europe's defences. If Villa are to progress the England international's pace, poise and passing will be key. His crossing sets him apart; only Cesc Fàbregas set up more goals in the Premier League last season.

uefa.com
©uefa.com 1998-2009. All rights reserved.

Posted by: acid911 Feb 17 2009, 11:01 AM

Are we now? Excellent share, though, Ken.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Feb 18 2009, 11:49 PM

Dynamo Kyiv 1-1 Valencia
Zenit 2-1 Stuttgart
Olympiakos 1-3 St. Etienne
Villa 1-1 CSKA Moscow
Brememn 1-1 Milan
Bordaeux 0-0 Galatasary
NEC 0-3 Hamburg
PSG 2-0 Wolfsburg
Sampdoria 0-1 Metalist
Aalborg 3-0 Deportivo
Braga 3-0 Liege

Both disappointed and pleased by the Villa score. I didn't think we'd be good enough against CSKA given the players we're missing, so I'm pleased we avoided defeat against them. But on the performance, we should have won it, they only really hard one attack where a Villa defender slipped at Wagner ove scored, really against the run of play at the time. We pushed forward more in the 2nd half and hit the crossbar amongst other chances, Carew equalised with 20 to go and then it was about even for the last 15 minutes or so. We need to score in Russia and avoid defeat.. don't think we can do it.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Feb 19 2009, 01:12 PM

Have a little faith Kurt

Posted by: Zed.D Feb 19 2009, 02:12 PM

That's the spirit!

You know that it could be a blessing in disguise for Villa... if you go out of the competition this round, you can put all your energy on finishing amongst the top 4... I suspect you'd rather see Villa in the CL next season than further in the UEFA this season, probably drawing a strong team and going out in the last stages. right?

I don't really know much about the EPL and Villa, but when I look at the standings, I don't feel Villa's 7-point gap between with the fifth place is a fluke. and if it hasn't been a fluke, then Villa can continue in this path and beat either Arsenal or Chelsea to a CL spot. god knows I want that to happen! just as much as I'd like to see Genoa do that in Serie A.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Feb 19 2009, 03:00 PM

My usual faith in Milan isn't that solid when it comes to this competition.

Ancelotti's Milan had trouble with small teams in the past, not only the domestic ones, also abroad. We also often underestimated a team, like in CL Deportivo, were we thought we have already qualified for next round. We have to be concentrated in both the first and second leg, and give 100%. Maybe Maldini ending with raising another trophy + the fact UEFA-C trophy is the only missing trophy for us will provide some extra motivation and concentration.

Posted by: acid911 Feb 19 2009, 04:50 PM

And the fact that this will be the last UEFA Cup in this format. Next year, it will be unveiled as the Europa League, and I sometimes think that maybe fate wanted us in this tournament to win it one last time! Who know. I sure as hell will be disappointed if we crash out of it, though.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Feb 19 2009, 11:58 PM

SPurs lost 2-0 in the Ukraine to Donetsk.. another Gomes howler. He is really poor, shocking keeper. I think the "Flops of the Season" team would include 5 or 6 Spurs players!

Posted by: dst Feb 20 2009, 01:37 AM

And their stupid coach.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Feb 20 2009, 02:04 AM

Stupid? Come on.. he's far more than that. I'll keep it to myself though, I don't want to be banned.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Feb 25 2009, 11:16 PM

I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that we won't be going to Istanbul this May..

For those of you that don't really know our players, here's an indicator of just how weak the squad is.
Blue = Never started a Premier League game for us.
Claret = Not started a Premier League game this season.

We're going to get f'ing killed.

Goalkeepers: Brad Guzan, Stuart Taylor, Elliot Parish.
Defenders: Luke Young, Curtis Davies, Zat Knight, Nicky Shorey, Eric Lichaj, Ciaran Clark, Shane Lowry.
Midfielders: Steve Sidwell, Mustapha Salifou, Craig Gardner, Isaiah Osbourne, Barry Bannan, Marc Albrighton.
Strikers: John Carew, Marlon Harewod, Nathan Delfouneso.


Notable absentees: Brad Friedel, Martin Laursen, Carlos Cuellar, James Milner, Ashley Young, Stiliyan Petrov, Nigel Reo-Coker, Emile Heskey & Gabby Agbonlahor.

Posted by: Zed.D Feb 26 2009, 12:31 PM

Where is everybody? They're all injured?

Posted by: Locke Lamora Feb 26 2009, 06:10 PM

Is it just me or does it seems a bit like O'neill is trying to get out the UEFA Cup so he can focus on the league?

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Feb 26 2009, 06:44 PM

^^^

...and boom goes the dynamite!

Posted by: kurtsimonw Feb 26 2009, 07:53 PM

Some are injured, some just ot called up. To make things worse, Carew got injured pre-game, so yet another first-teamer out.


Pretty much. Getting into the top 4 is far more valuable than doing well in the UEFA Cup.

FT CSKA 2-0 Villa.
-Harsh score-line really. They had alot of chances, but most of them were just long range shots that went nowhere near the goal, we had a couple of decent opportunities and should have scored. Their 2nd goal came in the 93rd minute when we were attacking the game.

Very pleased with the performances, Delfouneso, Bannan and Albrighton, the 3 up top for us, had combined ages of about 55.

Posted by: dst Feb 26 2009, 09:45 PM

You can always do both... like Fiorentina did last season.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Feb 26 2009, 10:50 PM

They didn't win the UEFA Cup. So had they got to the final and rested players in the league, they could have ended up with neither. If I were given the choice I'd say top 4. In saying that, I think we'll lose in the qualifiers anyway.

Posted by: dst Feb 26 2009, 10:58 PM

Not because they did not try to... I'm not saying you'd win it but it does not mean that staying in until the semis and going out after 120 minutes and penalties would not necessarily rule you out of a top 4 finish...

Posted by: kurtsimonw Feb 26 2009, 11:01 PM

I think they did, they played pretty much their best team in the game against Rangers and went out.

Anyways, not really disappointed, MONs done the right think in putting 100% focus on the top 4. If we finish 5th or lower, it won't be for the lack of effort.

Posted by: LaPalma Mar 12 2009, 04:42 PM

Anyone's watching the UEFA-Cup tonight? Bremen vs. St. Etienne should be an interesting games as well as Hamburg vs. Gala.

Posted by: Tennie Mar 12 2009, 06:32 PM

OLIC IS NOT PLAYING for Hamburg. Fishdoll is sad.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Mar 12 2009, 07:17 PM

Here's the fixtures..

CSKA - Shakhtar
Dynamo Kyiv - Metalist
Hamburg - Galatasary
PSG - Braga
Bremen - St. Etienne
Man City Aalborg
Marseilles - Ajax
Udinese - Zenit

CSKA and Dynamo currently lead 1-0, Hamburg-Galatasary is 1-1, the others haven't kicked-off.

Posted by: LaPalma Mar 12 2009, 08:07 PM

Gala were lucky in the end not co concede another one. Olic and Trochowski missed two great chances.

Posted by: Tennie Mar 12 2009, 10:54 PM

Well, the lone Italian team left in European competition left it late, but they did actually win.

Udinese 2 - 0 Zenit. Goals by Quagliarella in the 85th and Di Natale in added time.

Posted by: dst Mar 12 2009, 11:19 PM

Well done Udinese!

Posted by: vahid Mar 13 2009, 09:36 AM

Bravo Udinese,alone in Europe!

ps:11 yellow cards and 1 red card

Posted by: Zed.D Mar 13 2009, 11:23 AM

Well-done to Udinese but.. I never thought I'd witness the day when, of all the teams, Udinese are the only representatives of Italy in two major European competitions, as early as mid-March. it was a season to forget...

Posted by: kurtsimonw Mar 13 2009, 06:36 PM

My money is on City. CSKA and Ajax are probably the biggest 2 names that remain in the competition and I saw them both play at Villa Park this season, neither were overly impressive. Though I'd like either of them 2 to win it and I really hope City don't at the moment!

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 13 2009, 08:18 PM

Marseille, PSG and St.Ettienne in game and you say CSKA is with Ajax the biggest name? What's up, you don't recognize the French?

Posted by: kurtsimonw Mar 13 2009, 09:20 PM

PSG aren't a big club in my opinion, not at all. St. Ettiene are very under-rated, but haven't won anything for a while. Marseilles are also a big club, I just think they're edged out by CSKA in, especially how well they do in European competition, while Marseille never seem to acheive anything.

I don't rate the French league highly at all either.