Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: han2503 Aug 8 2015, 01:01 PM

All talk for next season's Serie A here

This is our fixture list btw

Posted by: han2503 Aug 8 2015, 01:57 PM

Lazio look good against Juve in the Super Coppa, I think they'll do well this season

Posted by: Danny Aug 8 2015, 03:06 PM

This season? They were top three last!

For them that's outstanding. Can't see them failing to last the pace this time either.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 8 2015, 03:43 PM

We'll see.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 8 2015, 04:03 PM

Well actually it's a very common trajectory for teams like Lazio to have a good season like they did last - it was actually more like a few good months rather than a whole season, they just took advantage of the complete lack of consistency from other teams in those months to gain that spot - and then struggle the following season

The reasons vary, but usually it's the fact that they have a lack of depth in their squad especially quality depth and they have to play a demanding competition like the CL (if they even make it through qualifiers)

They looked solid vs Juve (even though they lost in the end) but 1 or 2 injuries and their season would spiral.

We've seen this happen to many teams in Serie A over the years

Plus, I don't think teams like Napoli, Inter and hopefully us as well will have seasons as turbulent as last was for them.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 22 2015, 08:10 AM

This is the new Serie A youtube page https://www.youtube.com/user/legacalcioserieatim

It looks good, and finally something that doesn't isolate the international fans by being in just Italian. The lega needs to be more pro-active in marketing the league as an international brand.

Posted by: acid911 Aug 22 2015, 09:45 AM

Thanks for the share, Han.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 22 2015, 12:21 PM

Yeah, thanks for sharing.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 23 2015, 06:58 PM

Good news, Allegri-mode is back on

Posted by: han2503 Aug 23 2015, 07:32 PM

What happened? Didn't watch

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 23 2015, 08:16 PM

Well, they lost to Udine at home and blew their 2 and a half year record.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 23 2015, 08:51 PM

Not to mention all the injuries...

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 23 2015, 08:54 PM

Yep. Don't get me wrong, Juve played okay and could/should have won. But there I felt that old Allegri feeling again, breezing through the Turin mountain air. Sadly, I don't see much competition for the this season as well.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 23 2015, 09:40 PM

The injury thing simply has to go down on him now. It can't be a coincidence anymore that we probably had a record number of injuries under him, at times having to play even 3rd choice players more regularly than 1st shoice. Now Juve keep having injury troubles when under Conte they basically kept the same 11 for 3 whole seasons running with barely any injury problems.

I think they'll struggle a bit but they'll still win it in the end anyway. Roma are just too mentally fragile to even pose a threat to Juve

Posted by: Danny Aug 24 2015, 11:27 AM

Allegri effect my backside! They totally dominated the match and simply failed to covert their chances. Pure luck which saw Udi win this one.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 27 2015, 10:34 PM

Juve are very close to signing Draxler.

Yes, they lost Vidal, Tevez and Pirlo (who was pretty poor last season anyway), but they've signed Khedira, Cuadrado, Dybala, Mandzukic and now Draxler. Compare that to the names we've gotten.

Posted by: Danny Aug 27 2015, 10:38 PM

Perhaps, but in our defence they can attract better. They're champions, and have UCL.

We have Galliani jerking off in the bathroom.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 27 2015, 10:48 PM

Posted by: han2503 Aug 30 2015, 06:17 PM

How are Roma not winning this??

Posted by: acid911 Aug 30 2015, 06:36 PM

They are now. 1-0 up against the dozers.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 30 2015, 06:40 PM

2-0

If I understood correctly, this could be the first time in Juve's history starting with 2 losses!

Allegri breaking records at Juve as well. So touching...

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 30 2015, 06:59 PM

Juve were absolutely terrible bar the last 10 minutes after they scored. Allegri playing 3-5-2 with Padoin and Sturaro in midfield. Typical.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 30 2015, 07:01 PM

He's got Khedira and Marchisio injured. This scenario is funnily a lot like the one he had with us in the second season

All these injuries and having to try and patch up an 11.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 30 2015, 07:04 PM

That's why I said - Allegri-effect on

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 30 2015, 07:13 PM

That doesn't refrain you from playing a more offensive formation. He had Cuadrado, Pereyra and Alex Sandro on the bench.

Posted by: Danny Aug 30 2015, 07:18 PM

Twitter melting down with this haha.

tbh I don't care what anyone says, I can't fathom them letting their three best players go. Vidal, Tevez and Pirlo.

To this day it still makes no sense.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 30 2015, 07:39 PM

Tevez and Pirlo both wanted to go. It was out of their hands

And I'm guessing Vidal also pushed for the Bayern move

They've also lost out on Draxler today. Gone to Wolfsburg

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 30 2015, 07:55 PM

They sold Vidal because they wanted to keep Pogba. It was one or the other.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Aug 30 2015, 08:05 PM

Juve on regelation zone, what a feeling. We have bigger problems than them, but man this cheered me up.

Posted by: Danny Aug 30 2015, 08:09 PM

I'd have kept Vidal every minute of the day day of the week week of the month etc.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 30 2015, 08:11 PM

Vidal is 28, Pogba is 22. I think they made the right choice.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Aug 30 2015, 08:13 PM

No doubt there.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 30 2015, 08:20 PM

Agreed.

It would have made much more sense to sell Pogba for a huge sum (80m figures being thrown around) and kept Vidal, who didn't go for a lot imo when you consider the transfer fees of today.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Aug 30 2015, 08:26 PM

It would be pretty dumb to sell Vidal this season in order to keep Pogba, just to sell him after a season though. If they dont keep Pogba for at least next 5 years they fooled themselves.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Aug 30 2015, 08:28 PM

Jovetic scored for Inter. If they win, they will have 6 points and more important they will be in better mood for the derby.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 30 2015, 09:31 PM

Milan target Baselli doing very well at the moment for Torino. Two goals and good performances overall.

That's what I've been talking about: you can have a less creative and more working oriented midfield but still produce chances and play well. Milan simply fails at this because of the players mentality.

Posted by: William405 Aug 30 2015, 09:42 PM

So true. Miha knows it, and will work on fixing it.

You just can't convince me that having this one or two players in the lineup will change the whole team! There is a mentality problem more than anything.

Posted by: Danny Aug 30 2015, 10:01 PM

Really?

Whole of last season:

Pogba: 9 goals, 6 assists, 83% passing accuracy.

Vidal: 8, 4, 84%

About the same - sell Pogba like Han said and get far more cash from, and I know few share this view, but the idiotic clubs who overate him.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 30 2015, 11:23 PM

What I meant to say is that Pogba has about 10 years of top football in him, whereas Vidal about 4-5. And Pogba has the potential to become one of the best if not the best box-to-box mid in the world.

Posted by: Danny Aug 30 2015, 11:34 PM

Whatever I think of his abilities, Han's logic makes more sense. No effing way is Pogba staying at Juve for 10 years.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 30 2015, 11:53 PM

Maybe not 10 years, but why not 6-7? Kaká stayed with us for 7 seasons despite many lucrative offers. Same with Sheva.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 31 2015, 12:09 AM

Because things changed. Back then Italy was still the league where all the stuff, all the magic happened. You had great rivalries, you had teams like Milan and Inter spending serious money (for good players), you had the best defenses, the best midfielders, the best coaches. On top of it, Milan always offered a good (if not the best, at that time) shot for CL success. No wonder they stayed.

Now everything changed. Firstly the big money is elsewhere, secondly the big players are elsewhere. What's most important, Juventus reached their maximum last year with a shot to the CL trophy. You think Pogba would be satisfied with playing more "derbies" against the Milans and Inters of our present Serie A? Another "contest" with Roma for the title? Nah, he'll be soon off, off where all players want to be nowadays - Spain or England.

Posted by: Danny Aug 31 2015, 12:23 AM

Bingo to infinity and beyond.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 31 2015, 12:52 PM

He can wish for the moon, but if Juve say no then he can't do anything about it. Unlike Pirlo and Tevez, Pogba is only 22. The fact that Juve sacrificed Vidal and have been rejecting 100M offers pretty much seals it. And how do you know they won't reach another CL final this year or next year? Besides, England right now is no better than Italy. Just because they spend more on average players means nothing.

Posted by: Danny Aug 31 2015, 01:33 PM

*cough* Raheem Sterling *cough*

Posted by: Danny Aug 31 2015, 01:33 PM

PS Chelsea lining up an 80M bid now apparently.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 31 2015, 05:17 PM

You can't compare a big club with a team like Toro, everything is different, the way the team approaches games, the tactics, the system, etc.

Why does a player like Cerci excel at Toro but fails miserably at every top club he's gone to? Why do strikers like Gila, Matri, Di Vaio, Pazzini, Tavano, etc excel at their mid level clubs where service and opportunities are at a premium but are generally lacklustre at bigger clubs with better players behind them where they are given more to play off of?

Toro play a certain way, they are generally a counterattacking side. Meaning when they do attack they have more space to work in. At Milan we're trying to play a possession based system when we don't have the players for it. It's why Bertolacci for example looks seriously terrible, because he's not a good passer or a visionary on the ball. He's great at vertical runs into space and being the extra man in the box, but when it comes to possession football he's more of a liability for us.

Sure you're right, it has to do with mentality as well. But for me the major problem is that Silvio wants the team to play in a certain way when we don't have the players for it. His little mind that's stuck in the 80s still thinks that playing attractive football has all to do with the attack. But that's imo the least important factor in it. This is the guy who admires Pep and his past Barca side. How can you watch that team play and still think that midfield is not the most crucial department for any top side is beyond me.

And btw, we can thank Allegri for this idea of by-passing the midfield to score, because this has been going on since his first season with us, only back then we could punt the ball in the general direction of Ibra and he'd do the rest


I personally don't think it's an issue of overrating him, for me Pogba is one of the best young talents out there and at his age also one of the best in the world at what he does as well.

However, as I said, Juve will lose him anyway, it did not make sense to sell Vidal, one of their most important players, for so little when they could have probably made triple that for Pogba, who they will end up selling next summer anyway


Do you really have to ask that question? Fillipo answered it best. What top player in today's football wants Serie A over England or Spain, or heck even Germany when Bayern come calling

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 31 2015, 05:36 PM

You all make it sound so simple...

Posted by: acid911 Aug 31 2015, 05:41 PM

To be honest, it's not all terribly complicated, either.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 31 2015, 05:44 PM

Juventus are a top club. Who gives a sh*t what offers come from England or Spain! Unlike Tevez, Pogba is a project for them, the kind of talent you build your team around. And it's not like they're in desperate need for money. If offers of +100M come though, who wouldn't accept? You could sign 3-4 top players and rebuild your team from scratch, like they did after they sold Zidane.

It's a win-win situation for them. Hence, why they kept him instead of Vidal.

Posted by: acid911 Aug 31 2015, 05:56 PM

Exactly. The only concern is though that these mega offers might not come, if Pogba has a less than stellar season or two. They had their chance this year, but decided to keep him. And like with Shaarawy, these young players are hyped up quickly and can see their market value falter after an ordinary season.

Be interesting to see which way Pogba goes this season.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 31 2015, 07:31 PM

Inter just signed Ljajic today as well.

Hmm, so Mancini got rid of all their creative mids and seems to want the creativity to come from the attackers. Sort of replicating what he had at City there


@ acid, I wouldn't use Shaaawy and Pogba in the same sentence. They're world aparts in terms of quality. Pogba might struggle a bit more this season since he's suddenly the main man and the other guuys that also helped him look so good are gone, but he's still a top class talent and I don't think anyone comes anywhere close to him right now in football. Maybe Verratti when talking about that age range and level of talent

Posted by: Danny Aug 31 2015, 07:45 PM

The first statement using those two names we've ever agreed on. I might not rate Pogba anything like you guys but he pisses all over SEFS.

Posted by: acid911 Aug 31 2015, 08:44 PM

No comparison between both, but Pogba has it easy, being a midfielder and all. People don't worry about their statistics, goals, assists and things like that. Same goes for Verratti, and while I rate both these as better than what El Shaarawy brought to the table, Pogba is going to find it tough this season.

For the reasons you mentioned, and also because of his hype, which might make teams focus more on him.

Posted by: Danny Aug 31 2015, 09:15 PM

The great players cope with that. He's not a great player. He's a good player thoroughly overrated.

Posted by: acid911 Aug 31 2015, 09:19 PM

My feelings exactly. Thoroughly overrated is the best possible description for him now, and I'm curious when (or if) he makes the jump to the next level and start dominating matches as some expect him to. Maybe this season? Or maybe in another club, with a more solid environment in terms of talent and teammates.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 31 2015, 10:35 PM

I disagree with the statement that he's overrated. I don't think he is, at all

Posted by: han2503 Aug 31 2015, 11:07 PM

Just to lift the spirits a bit

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 1 2015, 12:19 AM

Someone should do the same for us.

Kondogbia -> Witsel -> Kucka

And anyway, Hernanes is still a decent player that we'd kill for.

Posted by: Danny Sep 1 2015, 12:38 AM

Why do I have the feeling Inter might actually be serious title contenders this season?

They've quietly done well in the window, have two wins from two, and just seem like they're well-managed and nicely balanced.

I think, from absolutely nowhere, they might just be the ones to watch out for this season, and not Juve.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 1 2015, 12:44 AM

I think they will fail. They lost the only two sources of creativity they had in midfield. They won against Atalanta at the 93' after a wonder goal from Jovetic, and barely defeated a newly-promoted Carpi who had been destroyed the previous week by Sampdoria with a 90' penalty.

Granted, the championship just started, but I have a feeling they won't achieve much.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 1 2015, 03:45 AM

Oh but he is. No one is worth 100m, and even if the few that are, are the types that have a more direct bearing on match results, instead of the usually passive work Pogba puts in as a midfielder. He is a very good player, though, but the fact that some rate him much higher than what he has delivered so far, on potential that is to say, means that he is overrated.

At least right now. If he keeps on improving and imposing himself, then yes, the hype will be justified. And that's what I'm interested in finding out. Point being, you can be really good and overrated at the same time. Or great and underrated.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 1 2015, 12:21 PM

I think those two are interconnected, more then you know. Because not all players are Gilardinos and Chiesas. You had also players like Batistuta, like Simone, like Bierhoff who knew how to transform and adapt to a bigger and more demanding environment. But if this environment is constantly polluted by an inefficient and plan less management, beginner or poor coaches with small ideas, with mentally problematic players - well then it certainly gives you a knock or two down.


I'm not sure you understand this correctly. You keep giving examples from the past, which is sadly brutally different then the Serie A present.

Firstly, Juventus has a habit of selling their best players for the right prize. They did this countless times in the past, Baggio, Zidane and Inzaghi are names that come to mind quickly. But this was a different time. When they sold Zidane, they already had self-sustainable team - and they invested into 3-4 top players.

Nowadays you cannot just raid Parma or Lazio like Juventus did in the past and snatch up world class players like Buffon, Thuram, Cannavaro, Nedved, etc. Because pretty much none of the Serie A players is world class.

Secondly, I think you underestimate the shining attractiveness of Spain and England. Nowadays everyone wants to prove himself there. It's a set of different components that make these destinations more desirable: competitiveness at the biggest level, big derbies and big opponents (not just clubs, but players as well), media focus, etc. All these components go in favor of England and Spain right now.

That being said, I don't see much options for Juventus this way or the other. Pogba will soon outgrow them, if not by merit then by pure media overrating. He'll end up in England or more probably Spain one way or the other. The same will happen to any player who makes more then just good in Italy nowadays.

Posted by: Ry4n Sep 1 2015, 03:50 PM

Don't have high hopes for the derby but its a derby , so i hope its the anything can happen vibe..

2-1 either way. or draw

Posted by: han2503 Sep 1 2015, 06:09 PM

Nah

Mancini basically wanted all the creative players out and brought in physical players instead. From a midfield I was envious of just a month ago to this... Ours is probably on a par with theirs now. Selling Kovacic and Hernanes (to a direct rival at that) was just stupid.

Sure they have creative forwards, but you can't rely simply on that. Especially when Jovetic doesn't have a great track record with injuries.

And as x-off pointed out, they have been far from convincing in their opening games. Especially when they had a relatively easy start compared to the other contenders for those places

And I still think Juve will win it in the end. I don't really see any solid competition for them


I'm not even thinking of bringing transfer fees into this. Those have been way over inflated years ago and no player is worth that much, not even Messi imo.

I just don't think he's overrated as a player in the most basic sense here. Like I said, only Verratti comes close to him in that age range and level of talent

Posted by: acid911 Sep 1 2015, 06:25 PM

If you put it that way.

Posted by: Danny Sep 1 2015, 10:02 PM

Kondogbia is better than any player in our midfield. Including De Jong. The guy is a colossus. You tried to convince me he was far better than Berto and I thought they were comparable. I was wrong - Kondogbia is on a different planet to anyone in our midfield.

PS they've replaced Hernanes with Ljajic. Couple of MOTMs last season, 90% passing rate (Hernanes with 83%). Not bad.

I think they're in a stronger position than us and have a balance that we just don't have.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 1 2015, 10:18 PM

My God how fast you are in giving these remarks. All I have to say right now...

Posted by: Danny Sep 1 2015, 10:53 PM

Well what I said was factual. With a strong hint of opinion. What the others said was purely opinion.

I'd say we all have entitlement to express whatever we all like though, whenever we like?!

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 1 2015, 11:47 PM

Sure, nobody said anything here to make you think otherwise.

Posted by: Danny Sep 2 2015, 01:01 AM

You just appeared to be condemning those posts?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 2 2015, 08:17 AM

Certainly not. It's just that I tend to wait and evaluate things at a slower rate, and with less defined terms. That's all man

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 2 2015, 05:14 PM

I was skeptical about Inter's sale of Kovacic and Hernanes, but when you think about it, they have about the right players for Mancini's 4-2-3-1/4-4-2:

Same argument about Juve:



Instead, we have f*ck all.

#GallianiLeave

Posted by: acid911 Sep 2 2015, 05:34 PM

Fudger just couldn't fork 11m for Hernanes.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 2 2015, 05:36 PM

But we could fork 20M for Bertolacci.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 2 2015, 06:08 PM

Yup. And to think that Hernanes is someone that can play anywhere in the midfield, has tons of league experience, and is someone that could helped us with our lack of creativity in attack. Him Lamela and Witsel should have been the three signings to alleviate a lot of our concerns.

I don't know but I have not written off Bertolacci totally, though he has been a disappointment. But sometime I think Galliani is riding a vendetta train and actually wants to bring down the club with bad signings and splashing the cash on wrong players.

I'd tire if I started naming them from 2007, our CL win, onwards. One after the other, oh man!

Posted by: acid911 Sep 2 2015, 06:09 PM

By the way, I like how you have Galliani in his trademark "Golden Tie" in your signature. Best one in the forum right now, love it more than the anti Allegri one you had going around a few years back.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 2 2015, 06:11 PM

Haha, I didn't even notice the yellow tie.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 2 2015, 06:13 PM

Trademark Golden Tie®.

Posted by: Danny Sep 2 2015, 07:33 PM

I think Serie A is between Inter, Juve and Roma this season. Juve are favourites but I think the loss of their three best has upset them hugely and they're struggling. Inter have scraped their opening matches but the stats showed complete dominance in EVERYTHING in both except goals. And Roma have signed rather well in the window to re-balance their squad.

"Instead, we have f*ck all."

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 2 2015, 11:49 PM

I'm not sold on Inter, not yet at least.

Posted by: Danny Sep 3 2015, 02:15 AM

Me neither, just pointing out on paper (we love paper so much) they are pretty balanced, have a decent squad, and have managed 2 from 2.

They also have a pretty safe pair of hands in Mancini.

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 3 2015, 02:16 PM

Our net spending was 56.9 M, only PSG and Man City spent more.. Juve was at 36 and inter at -2.7

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 3 2015, 02:26 PM

Which makes it even sadder that we're as bad as we were last season.

#GallianiLeave

Posted by: Danny Sep 3 2015, 03:24 PM

Worse. Last season we had a balance, just a badly managed one. Now we don't even have that.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 3 2015, 05:57 PM

Sure, he's obviously better than Bertolacci, I mean that was pretty obvious from the get-go. And this is not just an argument about one player though. Their midfield has been considerably weakened and Macini seems to want to go in the root of having an all action midfield and the creativity coming from the attack. It might have worked for him in the EPL with City but in Italy it generally doesn't work that way, just like it doesn't in Europe.

Like I said, I was envious of their midfield about a month ago, now not so much. They had a very good balance of creativity and physicality. They just went down the latter route completely now

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 3 2015, 06:08 PM

Their signing of Melo leaves me a bit perplexed. Failed horribly at Juve, spent the last four seasons in the Turkish league. And he's 32. But from what I understand Mancini plans on using him as a starter. Meh...

Anyway, even after the sales of Kovacic and Hernanes they're far better than us in every department, aside from defense maybe.

PS: When you think about it, their starting line-up barely has any Italians. Typical Inter.

Posted by: Danny Sep 3 2015, 10:07 PM

And ours is absolutely full of them. Maybe that's a symbol of why we're so bad. Italian football is not what it was, and the national team is the pits. I gather they scraped a 1-0 over the might of Han's guys.

Point is Italian players are not as good as they used to be. And our first team is:

Antonelli, MDS, Romag, Berto, Monto, Bona. The spine of the team.

Not really a shock we're so bad.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 4 2015, 05:30 PM

I was laughed at for saying this a few months ago. When I said I'd rather pick from the French pool of talent in midfield than Italy's

But fact is, the only shining light for Italy right now is Veratti, when in the past it was littered from front to back with world class talent.

Sure there are even good or great players in the Azzurri set-up nowadays like Marchisio, Chiellini, Darmian, De Rossi and maybe even Buffon still. But no where near in the past where you had top world class talent all round, even on the bench when short sighted coaches couldn't manage to play both Del Piero and Totti at the same time.

The talent in Italy has completely dried up. Sure there are a couple here and there who are shining lights but the majority simply aren't good enough to wear the shirt.

I personally cringe at seeing the likes of Eder, Candreva, Pele, Bertolacci, etc playing for Italy

And btw, Berlu's bright idea was to have an ItalMilan, and we followed that to a T aside from the attack which as usual, under this regime, is always given special treatment

Posted by: acid911 Sep 4 2015, 06:15 PM

Imaging how I feel when I see the hacks that play for Brazil these days. And the fudgers that coach them, that always give preferential treatment to players from big clubs in Europe, instead of of those with talent, effort and local fan following behind them.

Point being, Italy may be in a bad state right now, but Brazil is worse.

Posted by: Danny Sep 4 2015, 08:22 PM

Brazil have some glorious talent in there but it's been painfully badly managed. Last year's world cup (sure there was pressure too, but these guys can handle it) saw world class players like Silva, Alves, Oscar, Neymar - and the truth is Scolari, like he did with Chelsea, disgustingly mismanaged them.

To not take Moura was just a f*ck up of monumental proportions, and hindsight is easy but he should have taken one old-timer like Kaka to inspire them.

Instead it was just a disgrace. Brazil are a much better team than their current status suggests, but something is badly wrong with how they're being managed now.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 6 2015, 08:54 PM

At least Brazil has a huge talent pool to pick from, with new players always emerging. The talent pool in Italy has dried up nowadays, with barely a handful of world class players to pick from


Agreed

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 6 2015, 11:10 PM

An Arab proverb "if it was always with others, you would never have received its benefit'. Somethings are lost in translation, but the idea is; had Madrid always won the European cup Milan and co would not have gotten a chance.

Hence, life is a cycle of ups and downs. same goes for Italy, Brazil and the state of our Milan today. (Or Serie A as a whole)

I like it that way, it gives flavor to the good times. That's my opinion at least

Posted by: acid911 Sep 6 2015, 11:32 PM

In Arabic or it didn't happen. Besides, I read Arabic much better than I speak it, so if it is possible for you, then write the proverb here, and I'll see if something is lost in translation or not.


You're right in that sense, but I always want the National Team coaches to put out the best possible players they can in all matches. I don't know about others, but these matches are a matter of prestige, maybe even more than club football. Partly because it's yearly, and major tournaments are few and far between.

But when I see politics, and NT coaches playing favorites, that's just bad man. I don't quite see that happening in Italy to that extent, as to what's going on in Brazil right now. Win or lose is another matter entirely, but fielding players that have not earned the call, ahead of those that deserve it, that's just painful. For me, it is.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 6 2015, 11:49 PM

لو دامت لغيرك ما اتصلت إليك

I didn't know you read Arabic

Posted by: acid911 Sep 7 2015, 12:08 AM

Neat proverb! Got it nice and fine. Thanks for the share!


Oh, but I do. Lots and lots of it. In fact, I'm good with a number of languages, in varying quality (some in reading comprehension, others I can converse in, and a couple that I just barely find my way through). Arabic and Farsi (Persion) I'm pretty decent in, partly because both make up the majority of Urdu.

And plus, I've spent two decades and regularly visit the Middle East.

Posted by: William405 Sep 12 2015, 08:19 PM

Juve are losing 1-0 against Chievo..knew these massive changes will have a bad effect on the team. Didn't think it would be that bad though.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 12 2015, 09:21 PM

Just tuned in, watch them score now that I'm watching...

Btw, the power of Allegri is strong here!

Posted by: han2503 Sep 12 2015, 09:22 PM

lol, penalty for them

Knew it

Posted by: han2503 Sep 12 2015, 09:35 PM

1-1

Can this now be the time for Juve to panic? 3 matchdays in with only Roma being the biggest obstacle and they just have one point...

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 12 2015, 09:37 PM

Cuadrado is a cheating tw@t. No way that was a penalty. He threw himself.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 12 2015, 09:37 PM

Should have had none.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 12 2015, 10:13 PM

Well technically speaking I think it was because the Chievo player got all man, no ball.

But Cuadrado obviously played for it and going for the dive was the only thing on his mind as he really had no where to go there.

I mostly blame the Chievo player for lunging, should have just ushered him out of play or blocked the eventual hopeful cross Cuadrado would have tried to play across goal

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 13 2015, 02:10 AM

Wow. Three matches played, Juventus with 1 point. Couldn't get any better.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 13 2015, 12:55 PM

I think they'll struggle these first 2 months. Allegri doesn't have the Conte core to rely on anymore so it will be difficult for them when things are not working out.

And I was reading a bit of comments from other forums from Juve fans and even they are worried now since they don't have Tevez to bail them out as they freely admit that there were games last season where they were terrible and Tevez got them the points from a moment of brilliance (basically same thing we had with Ibra)

The problem is that I don't think there'll be any team who's consistent enough throughout the season who will be able to de-throne Juve. Roma usually start really well but then falter after Christmas. Napoli are just inconsistent - period. And us and Inter imo are not good enough to make a proper challenge

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 13 2015, 01:19 PM

Agreed. But maybe if we or someone else holds up until Christmas and invests more during the winter transfer period...

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 13 2015, 01:42 PM

We'd need to invest another 90M to be title contenders.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 13 2015, 02:07 PM

You think? I'm not that sure. One or two midfielders would do the trick for starters.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 13 2015, 02:37 PM

I don't believe that can be us. Sadly I think we just have too many weaknesses in our squad, not to mention a terrible mind-set that has been set in our players since Allegri. I just don't think we're strong enough to even get a CL spot.

If we had properly invested all the money we spent then sure, but we didn't even get one great mid who can be an orchestrator, I just don't see us being able to win enough games to do that.


True


With the way Galliani works, I think x-off is right

We need one top CB to replace Mexes who's not getting any younger and has had issues with coaches so he always seems to be starting from scratch each season so we never have any consistency at the back

We need at least 2 creative mids, one a regista the other a trequartista.

Without these 3 additions I can't see us doing anything of note this season

On paper Inter and Roma look the most likely candidates, but as I said before Roma are just fragile mentally, I can't see them pushing Juve all the way and Inter will solely rely on Jovetic for creativity now that Mancini pushed all his creative mids out the door. And let's face it, he's not a player you can rely on considering his injury history

Posted by: han2503 Sep 20 2015, 02:26 PM

Inter won again today...

Roma currently losing

Posted by: William405 Sep 20 2015, 03:54 PM

But as it seems..they are barely winning..I saw the goal..and it was a big mistake from Chievo. Oh well..

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 20 2015, 04:07 PM

Another 1-0 from them, meh. Well, 1 goal conceded in 4 games so far. At least they know how to defend.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 20 2015, 05:16 PM

Yeah, again, the bounce of the ball is going their way atm. They're on a streak and it's not so much about how they're playing (which isn't all that good) but having luck on their side and scraping the wins

Posted by: William405 Sep 23 2015, 09:37 PM

Man...Inter are winning again..most of the other big teams flopped including Juventus, Napoli and Roma.

Posted by: William405 Sep 23 2015, 09:42 PM

Inter win. Roma lose. Juventus draw. Napoli draw. Lazio win.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 24 2015, 09:50 AM

I think Inter is getting more and more serious.

But good God, Allegri did it again. Unbelievable.

Posted by: Ry4n Sep 24 2015, 11:44 AM

Juve draw at home is really interesting i thought they would win this won clearly.


Frosinone Calcio have not won or drawn a single game since they came to Serie A and yet draw away to Juve last years winners..

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 24 2015, 11:47 AM

They're doing terrible, but there's still a long way to go. Either way though, Allegri's choices are just incredible. Leaves Hernanes and Dybala on the bench and plays frigging Sturaro and Pereyra.

Posted by: Ry4n Sep 24 2015, 01:15 PM

i think he just was very naive in thinking why put on Hernanes and Dybala surely my juventus team can beat these guys at home since they have not won a league or draw a game...and it backfired.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 24 2015, 01:26 PM

He's repeating the same stuff he did with Milan.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 24 2015, 02:24 PM

Urby anyone?

Typical Allegri really, the core that Conte built is no longer there to rely on, this is HIS team, unlike last season and he's showing us that we were right to think he's mediocre.

As for Inter, I'm not worried (yet). They'll mess up soon and it will crumble from there. They're mostly scraping each game, their luck will soon run out.

Posted by: Ry4n Sep 24 2015, 04:51 PM

he did'nt get us to a CL but i think if he did we would have 8 by now..

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 26 2015, 09:52 AM

Tonight's game is going to be decisive, I think. If Juve don't win this one either, then I don't think they have what it takes to win the league.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 26 2015, 01:46 PM

We'll see. I think it's too early to tell

I can't see Inter keeping up their current run for much longer, and Roma are too inconsistent.

Still think Juve have the best squad in the league and should (at least on paper) be able to win it

Posted by: William405 Sep 26 2015, 08:20 PM

Napoli scored vs Juve, a goal by Insigne.


If Juve keeps on going like this, then the title race is basically open to everyone.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 26 2015, 08:52 PM

True. But I still think that they'll win it in the end. Sure the race will be a lot more open than in the last few years considering they usually win the title by December. But with most teams in the league being so inconsistent I think once Juve settle into a rhythm they'll see things out as usual.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 26 2015, 09:07 PM

Allegri's constipated face is always too funny

Posted by: han2503 Sep 26 2015, 09:09 PM

2-0

My my, Juve self-destructing here!

Posted by: William405 Sep 26 2015, 09:13 PM

then juve answered quickly!

Posted by: William405 Sep 26 2015, 09:13 PM

YES

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 26 2015, 09:22 PM

I don't understand Allegri. Leaves Cuadrado on the bench. Plays Hernanes as anchor albeit he's never played that position before. Removes Dyabala who's arguably their most dangerous threat in attack, and replaces him with Morata, a CF, on the wing. And sticks to his favorites like Padoin and Pereyra. But then again, it's fucking Allegri. One shouldn't be surprised.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 26 2015, 09:41 PM

I will always answer these types of bewildered musings about Allegri with 2 words. Urby Emanuelson!

FT

Juve lose again.

Their only win being a game where the opposition scored an own goal, they were awarded a penalty and Genoa were playing with 10 for long periods of the game and then 9 men as well.

This is probably worse than his 3rd season with us

Too bad we're not playing them now

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 27 2015, 08:20 PM

Inter getting royally trashed by Fiorentina.

It's these things that make me angry why we didn't win today.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 27 2015, 09:42 PM

Well, as I predicted, Inter not only come crashing down from their high but they do it beautifully. Expecting a meltdown from them in the coming weeks

Posted by: han2503 Sep 27 2015, 09:44 PM

Well, what can you do. It's not like we're going to be competing for top 3 anyway. It's still very early in the season and although this would have been a huge opportunity for us, there will be others, and hopefully by then we'll have improved and Miha will maybe have beaten some of the bad mental issues we suffer from out of the team

Posted by: han2503 Oct 4 2015, 02:40 PM

Anyone watching Inter-Samp?

Correa with an incredible miss!! Was harder to actually miss rather than score

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 4 2015, 03:11 PM

How's Inter playing?

Posted by: han2503 Oct 4 2015, 03:11 PM

Inter losing.

I love when I'm right

Posted by: han2503 Oct 4 2015, 03:12 PM

Samp have been the better team, should be winning by more

Posted by: Ry4n Oct 7 2015, 08:12 PM

Kevin-Prince Boateng has been called up for Milan’s friendly against Monza tomorrow, but Mario Balotelli is out.

It kicks off on Thursday at the Stadio Brianteo in Monza at 17.00 UK time (16.00 GMT).

Boateng arrived last week and will train with the Rossoneri until December 31 after being frozen out by Schalke 04.

Coach Sinisa Mihajlovic will also take this time to evaluate the Ghana international for a possible contract in January.

Boateng is included in the squad to face Monza and will wear shirt number 72.

Balotelli is still unavailable after a muscular problem ruled him out of the 4-0 defeat to Napoli.

Goalkeeper Diego Lopez is also out of action.

Milan squad for Monza: Abbiati, Donnarumma; Alex, Mexes, Turano (51), De Santis (52), El Hilali (53), Zucchetti (54); De Jong, Josè Mauri, Nocerino, Poli, Suso, Boateng (72), Crociata (56), Zanellato (57); Cerci, Luiz Adriano, Hamadi (55), Vassallo (58), Agnero (59)*

http://www.football-italia.net/74024/boateng-milan-squad

I for one did not know it was that bad a situation down in Schalke 04.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 8 2015, 11:16 AM

Sure. Be behaved completely unprofessional, just remember the photos.

Posted by: Ry4n Oct 8 2015, 03:25 PM

which photos?

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 8 2015, 05:41 PM

The ones where he was smoking, I think?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 8 2015, 05:45 PM

Tells you everything:

Posted by: Ry4n Oct 8 2015, 08:43 PM

oh damn i didnt know about this.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 9 2015, 08:27 AM

Watch us give him a contract in January, he apparently played 45 minutes of our friendly against Monza the other day

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 9 2015, 10:09 AM

Great. Just great.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 9 2015, 02:54 PM

And with shirt #72 nonetheless. What a time to be a Milan fan!

Posted by: han2503 Oct 9 2015, 04:59 PM

#72 or #27?

Because the latter used to be his, don't know what the former's significance is...

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 9 2015, 06:48 PM

27 is occupied by Kucka, so he chose the opposite.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 9 2015, 07:58 PM

aah... Okay, he's a smart cookie that one.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 31 2015, 08:04 PM

Damn, Juve score the winner in the last minute of stoppage!

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 31 2015, 10:45 PM

Inter 1-0 Roma

Good match. Inter are very solid defensively, albeit tonight they got lucky in a few occasions.

Posted by: X-Offender Jan 18 2016, 10:34 PM

Spezia 1-2 Alessandria

I just realized, Alessandria play in the frigging Lega Pro, not even Serie B.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jan 19 2016, 10:04 AM

Yeah. What a golden ticket this is to get a trophy.

Posted by: han2503 Jan 19 2016, 05:19 PM

We'll still have a difficult side in the final, good thing is that the sides in the other potential semi are all in European places if I'm not mistaken, so win or lose in the final, we get into the EL at the very least if we can't make it through the league

Posted by: X-Offender Jan 19 2016, 09:02 PM

A final is a final, a one-time game that anything that can happen. Even if we get Juve, we'd still have a chance to win.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jan 19 2016, 09:11 PM

It's a golden ticket, playing against Serie B and lower teams, then facing a stronger side in a one-match final. It's not a gifted trophy or a sure thing, but it's the best next thing.

Posted by: han2503 Jan 20 2016, 04:24 PM

Well I agree with both of you there

But I'm mostly looking at our track record this season against difficult opposition, which has been really poor. So basically saying that even if that continues, being in that final will still benefit us a lot

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jan 26 2016, 05:22 PM

Anyone reading about this new investigation called "Offside"? One of the prime suspects should be Galliani.

Posted by: han2503 Jan 27 2016, 04:21 PM

What's going on?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jan 27 2016, 04:41 PM

Not sure. De Laurentiis, Lotito, Galliani and a few others under tax-payment investigation. Gonna make a better research.

Posted by: Nova Jan 31 2016, 02:00 PM

Juve totally trashing Chievo now. 0-4 and SO clear what individual talent & class does to a team.

Posted by: han2503 Jan 31 2016, 03:18 PM

It's been clear for over 4 years now that Juve have by far the best team in this league with no one anywhere close to catching them, even after losing crucial players last summer, there's still a huge gap between them and the rest. Their stuttering start was expected and unexpected at the same time to a lot of people, but I never doubted for a second that they would still win it by the end, even when they were behind us in the standings

Posted by: William405 Jan 31 2016, 05:32 PM

Yep. And once again, Allegri proving that he's a really good coach.

Posted by: han2503 Jan 31 2016, 06:23 PM

How does steam rolling a weak league with a team that is undoubtedly superior to the rest proving anything?

Allegri proved with Milan that he's all fine and good as long as he has the individual talent to bail him out, he proved that this season as well when he lost Tevez, Pirlo and Vidal and some of the top players on his team like Pogba, Morata, etc were not playing up to their usual standards.

It's basically similar to what happened at Milan when we sold Silva and Ibra, only we didn't have any top talent left to fall back on like Juve still do.

Posted by: William405 Jan 31 2016, 06:49 PM

First, last year, he was able to reach the champions leauge final which I consider a great feat.


But, the most impressive thing is that he was able to rebuild a team in a relatively short period! No one can argue that Juve lost its key players this season. Pirlo and Vidal were the engine driving the team, and Tevez was there go to guy. Even if he had loads of talent, it's just not enough. He formed a good unit, and it's based around young players..So Juventus can look ahead for a bright future. Yes, the Serie A isn't the strongest leauge around, but it isn't that weak either. Their are lots of teams with great players on paper, but their isn't such a good management. That's what Allegri was able to build. (That's what Napoli have too) Of-course, it also helps when they have a very strong defensive core to begin with.

Posted by: X-Offender Jan 31 2016, 06:50 PM

Juve have a top side, by far the best in the league. They're winning games, so Allegri is a mastermind? Let's not kid ourselves here. Like Han said, Allegri proved all his worth in the seasons following the Scudetto win. There's nothing more left to add that's not already been said.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jan 31 2016, 07:27 PM

Indeed. It proves nothing regarding Allegri. We already knew that he's capable of managing a star-filled team if the opposition is weak enough.

Posted by: han2503 Jan 31 2016, 07:34 PM

So have coaches like Di Matteo for example, where is he now?

Rebuild? I don't think so, the team was already built by Conte and was a solid enough foundation that he really didn't have much of anything to do aside from not screwing up, which he was about to do this season as soon as he lost his match winners.

Lucky for him he still has a good few of them left in his squad, so he didn't really suffer like he did at Milan where he had no one of that calibre to rely on.

Posted by: William405 Feb 1 2016, 09:07 AM

I never said he was a mastermind.

Just a good coach who is getting it done!

I don't think he's relying on anyone, but he got the team to play like a unit. Something that is just show for us.

Posted by: han2503 Feb 1 2016, 04:16 PM

I think Conte was the man who did that, Allegri was just smart enough to not mess with an already good thing

Posted by: Nova Feb 1 2016, 05:50 PM

I think you are making it too easy and simple. He is still the coach and no matter how we look at it , it's him who lead Juve to the title. Don't get me wrong , I'm not saying he is a great coach , but to say it's just conte's work and he is like freeloading off his success , that I dont agree with considering Juve also lost some players.

Posted by: han2503 Feb 1 2016, 08:26 PM

Some players sure, but they replaced them smartly (that's Moratta's job not Allegri's). And they still have the majority of the backbone players in midfield and defence, the foundation that Conte built his side on is still there and it's still being utilised by Allegri now. The defence, Marchiso, Pogba. They're all still there. Sure he lost 3 important players, but the solid foundation still remained there.

Unlike at Milan where Ibra, Silva and Nesta were sold/left and there was no one of that calibre to step in, and basically after being a one man show under Allegri with Ibra consistently bailing us out throughout his time with us, Allegri simply had no tactical answers to counter the loss of those players.

I still think that shortcoming very obviously still exists with Juve, where we saw this season how he slipped on dry ground (as we Maltese like to say) when he couldn't come up with a solution to losing Tevez who was usually the one coming up with the goals when they were struggling to find a way through, lucky for him he still has a lot of quality in the team now with basically the rest of the league being miles apart in quality so he's able to recovered from that terribly stuttering start and being within touching distance now of taking the top spot back, which realistically speaking, should have never even slipped from his grasp to begin with

Posted by: X-Offender Feb 2 2016, 10:35 PM

Maybe he learned from his mistakes? Look, you know very well I was one of Allegri's fiercest critics, but like Nova said, reducing Allegri's job to simply freeloading on Conte's work is an over-exaggeration. If that's the case, why have a coach at all? Allegri is doing well, we should give him credit. Has he become a top coach? Absolutely not, and he never will be in my honest opinion. But the guy has certainly improved since his disastrous times with us.

Posted by: William405 Feb 2 2016, 10:49 PM

Yep, exactly my point here.

BTW, I watched Roma today..for some reason.

Well, I have to say, I feel they're very thin. Given, they have a few injuries, but they just don't impress me at all as a team.

BTW, Sharaawy scored again..but actually the game was almost over. I felt he was a ghost most of the game. Salah did well, but really he had much space which is what a player like him strives on. Not too impressed by him.

Now, Pijanic is the one I'd want. So good.

Posted by: William405 Feb 7 2016, 01:30 PM

Inter losing against Verona. Half time.

Time to see whether we have what it takes to climb up the table.

Posted by: han2503 Feb 7 2016, 01:46 PM

Losing 3-1 atm

This could be a pretty big turning point for us if we take advantage

Posted by: William405 Feb 7 2016, 02:38 PM

They tie 3-3. Still a good result for us.

Posted by: han2503 Feb 7 2016, 02:56 PM

Yep

Posted by: William405 Feb 12 2016, 10:07 PM

Capri equalize 1-1!

I have to say Roma are really underwhelming! 😎

Posted by: William405 Feb 12 2016, 10:42 PM

Roma win 3-1.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Feb 28 2016, 04:47 PM

Juventus beating inter tonight while Fiorentina drawing/lossing against Napoli would be ideal!

Milan need not dwell on the table at this juncture, rather keep the momentum going. Milan have a UEFA cup spot all but locked in. Pushing ahead in the final stretch for a team without any midweek commitments gives further emphasis for the team to set the CL as an objective; very much attainable with ten rounds to go.

Posted by: X-Offender Feb 29 2016, 11:45 PM

Roma 53
Fiorentina 53
Inter 48
Milan 47

Roma and Fiorentina play each other on Friday. Hopefully they draw. But we're playing Sassuolo away (who won in Lazio's home tonight) and I can see us losing or drawing.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 1 2016, 12:20 AM

We'll see. Sassuolo is a must win. Hopefully we'll have Monto.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 6 2016, 03:54 PM

Roma seems to be in good shape. Sadly, it wasn't a draw and the third spot could elude us definitively very soon.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 6 2016, 05:02 PM

I think that door just closed today.

Anyway, the EL is a sure thing now that we're in the Coppa final, so really, there sin't much left to play for in terms of the league at this point

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 6 2016, 05:30 PM

Actually, no. We should win the final to get the EL spot.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 6 2016, 06:21 PM

Indeed. The rules really changed.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 8 2016, 12:12 AM

Seems like Miha will leave Milan in June [Sky]. Any thoughts? Apparently Berlu tried to bring back Capello, but don Fabio refused.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 8 2016, 09:06 PM

I read the other day that we should get it... Is there anything official on this?


Way to show how stale and totally void of ideas you truly are Berlu, you senile old fool

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 9 2016, 09:30 AM

Well, in his defense, what idea would you bring? I think what Milan really needs is a seasoned coach, not a debutante, not an experiment.

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Mar 9 2016, 07:11 PM

+1

Posted by: han2503 Mar 9 2016, 07:36 PM

Certainly one better than Fabio Capello who is a dinosaur that is no longer able to be effective in today's football.

There are many talented and modern coaches around to choose from, restricting ourselves to past players, past coaches and Serie A mid-level coaches is part of the problem, and that's not going to be solves by Capello imo

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 9 2016, 08:24 PM

Agreed.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 10 2016, 01:11 AM

For example?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 12 2016, 12:51 PM

Anyway.


Gee, I wasn't aware I'd live to see the day someone will lift Sebo Rossi's record without conceding a goal in Serie A. Well, Buffon has only 3 minutes left and another Milan record goes down the drain.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 12 2016, 02:24 PM

There are many, I personally would have preferred to see us sign someone like Spalletti last summer when he was available and clearly willing.

He wouldn't be the innovative signing that we terribly need but he would have been a good stepping stone to finding that coach.

It's clear that we cannot sign a top coach, most likely not because of the wages but because we cannot promise him a top team, but in these situations you simply have to think outside the box. Miha certainly wasn't thinking outside the box, certainly neither was it with Pippo and Seedorf and with Cappello we'd be so far INSIDE the box we might as well just get buried in it.

I think first and foremost we need to look outside of the league for our next coach.

Then there are coaches like Van Gaal and Hiddink who could become available and I think could be willing to come on board. I still don't think they're what we need but they could make a turn around within the team because of their experience. I know you're going to say then why not Fabio? He's just as experienced if not more so.

You'd be right there but I think our past history with him is also an issue, not to mention that he's the type of coach that is fully set in his ways and imo hasn't really adapted all that much to the modern era of the game. Just my opinion


Well, Juve are breaking all our records in a Serie A that's barely a fraction of what it used to be when we set those records. I think we can take a bit of comfort in the fact that when we set those records we were one of the best sides in Europe playing in the absolute best league in Europe

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 12 2016, 02:57 PM

Did Juve break any other Milan record recently? Anyway, agreed on that part Han, nicely put.

What I don't agree with you is your ageism thing and the answer you gave me.
Yes, Spalletti was a viable option. A loser coach who has nevertheless experience enough to master us through. Agreed. Yet the very fact that you came up with one name shows it all. Then you mention Hiddink and LvG out of no where, what gives you the idea they'd consider Milan or Italy? Hiddink came back to Chelsea because he could easily link up with the environment there he already knew. That's the same we tried with Capello. Now you say trying to bring don Fabio on board is a clueless/idealess try, but at the same time you propose another old coach who's never even coached in Italy?

I fail to see the logic in that, but I know, you're probably gonna say Hiddink is more vital the don Fabio and coached clubs more recently. Well, to me it's hardly enough.

The way I see this is that we have limited option:

A. We sign someone completely unknown who has links with Milan - we've done this twice and it didn't come out good.

B. We sign an more or less ambitious coach who'd consider Milan a next (good) step in his career (like Allegri)

C. We play the emotions card an sign someone respectable, like Rijkaard or Ancelotti (who went unavailable) just based on past ties.

I don't see much space for Hiddink's and van Gaal's landing at Milan in the future. What I would propose is we sign Lippi or Capello on board for a advisory or supervisory role, and bring someone fresh and talented in as head coach. I think Milan needs some reassurance and something of the old charm back. Discarding Capello simply because he hasn't been in club football for a while and is old IMO isn't wise.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 12 2016, 04:27 PM

Not sure, did they break our unbeaten record or not?

It's not about ageism, not like VG or Hiddink are spring chickens, but it's the type of coach Cappello is, he's too rigid and set in his ways, I don't think it would be a good idea at all to have him on as head coach, and I don't think Lippi is either.

Hiddink accepted the Chelsea bench knowing that he'll most likely be out come summer, so I don't think it would be much of a stretch to think that he'd take on the challenge at Milan. He's a coach with an endless amount of experience in terms of working with more limited teams, I personally think he'd be the perfect kind of coach to lead us out of this rough patch.

Also, I said Spelletti would be a good stepping stone solution, not the solution in and of itself.

And the proposal you're making here about having Fabio and Lippi on in advisory roles is a total different concept to having them as the actual head coach of the side, which I think would be a big mistake.

Also, you're forgetting that there have been other really good coaches available at times when we were looking and we passed them over for the cheaper and easier solutions (like Klopp for example)

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 12 2016, 05:15 PM

Capello hasn't coached a club since 2007. He'd be a terrible choice. Not to mention he's way past his prime. The guy should just retire.

What we need is a visionary coach who understands modern football, but that's also accomplished something in his career. In other words, guys like Klopp or Emery, just to name a couple.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 12 2016, 06:31 PM

Man, I can't follow your logic.

Yes, I agree, Capello hasn't been in the game lately. But as a interim solution he'd do fine.

You say don Fabio is too rigid, but suggest LvG who's probably the epitome of rigidity. How is that logical?

And Klopp, Emery? Emery rejected Milan. Klopp wanted a real challenging club, with money and ambition. Are we really that kind of club? You really think we can offer them something?

Posted by: kurtsimonw Mar 16 2016, 11:20 PM

Let's not forget LvG is doing an awful job after spending £300m, why would we want him anywhere near our club?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 16 2016, 11:23 PM

This is Han going over the top again

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Mar 17 2016, 07:31 AM

Hey guys.

I think Capello is a very innovative coach. I just think he's not the kind of person who can drop in and coach once a month as is expected in a national team. For that you need a person like Ancelotti who will be open to a few tactical flaws in his plan and hope his team's strong points are enough to cover it. Madrid was horribly imbalanced in his second season and the proof is in how much worse they look now he's gone.

Emery, in Serie A, I'm not sure. Serie A teams are very pragmatic these days and we need some instant success. So not sure how it will work out for him in a new league. Sousa has been impressive but now his tactics have been figured out and Fiorentina are struggling a bit ore.

If we needed new coaches, I'd go with the usual suspects - EDF and Donadoni. Both are different personalities with chips on their shoulders. But expectations would have to be kept very low.

But I'd keep Mihaijlovic for now. He has shown progress in play and in the team's mentality. I'd like him to get a couple of more transfer windows to iron out the pending flaws.

For me :

1. One Centre Back :Alex is running out of legs, Zapata is good as second tier refuses to make a jump in quality. Maybe Marquinhos?

2. A midfielder: We need a replacement/backup for Montolivo. The Bertolacci experiment is a flop. He is clearly a different kind of midfielder. Perhaps more adept in an X-Mas Tree. Basically to see Bertolacci play well, Bonaventura needs to be on the bench and you need a striker who will open up space for you. We haven't had one since Zlatan.

3. A connecting player: I can't define this role exactly. But our transitions are too slow . From defence to midfield, Montolivo and Kucka does a good role. From midfield to attack, Niang and sometimes Honda put in a hard shift. But we essentially are down to need two players to do one job. So if anyone of them is out we struggle.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Mar 17 2016, 04:41 PM

I'm still hoping for Pastore. Only played 900 minutes this season.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 19 2016, 08:47 PM

LvG might not be doing anything special at Man U but I think he's a good tactician, I just don't think him and Man U are the right partnership.

Also, how is bring forth an idea (a name of a coach) going over the top Fillipo? I think he's definitely a better option to Capello who at this point in time in his career is just a name nothing more.

Also, I think it would be a mistake to go back to someone who already has a history with us, both a great one and a disappointing one

How many times are we going to repeat this cycle with both players and coaches?

Posted by: Nova Mar 19 2016, 09:27 PM

Isn't he a bit overrated? I remember him playing at Palermo and I didn't understand what the fuss was all about.

Posted by: kurtsimonw May 17 2016, 03:21 AM

Yaya Toure to Inter? That's such an Inter transfer. So overrated.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow May 17 2016, 07:28 AM

Wouldn't say that just yet kurt. It's not about just Toure. Toure with Kondgobia and Jovetic in there is quite a difficult proposition. When you consider that our response to this is going to be Honda, Bertlocacci and Montolivo.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone May 17 2016, 08:58 AM

If the three you mentioned will be our response, I'm gonna shoot someone. No, please. Let's rebuild properly this time.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow May 17 2016, 12:58 PM

We've been at Year 0 for the past 3 years now. I too hope something will be different.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 May 17 2016, 02:49 PM

When the club is sold, that is when we should start to have expectations or ambitions.

These are the players going to that cup Roma and inter used to scramble over. The Roma that trumped us not two days ago.

If the sale does not happen (unlikely at this point), Milan will have to scramble through another season of aiming high and shooting low. With that said, I'm not taking anything away from the team's effort, as I admire their courage and showed glimpses of genius throughout the season.

Posted by: han2503 May 17 2016, 08:13 PM

Meh, it's typical Mancini really, he wants the all muscle, powerful midfield and relies heavily on the attack to create. I don't think that will work as well as it did in England (just for one season that is)

Plus, I think Toure was really good for a couple of seasons but no where near that now

Posted by: milanbuf88 May 17 2016, 11:41 PM

We must have watched different seasons. Bonaventura had a couple of great free kicks early in the season but other than that I can't think of anything that comes close to a "glimpse of genius."

Posted by: Fillipo Simone May 18 2016, 10:34 AM

Why unlikely?

Posted by: Rossoneri7 May 18 2016, 07:19 PM

The sale is inevitable, seems only the coppa final is delaying the deal.

It's a hunch more than anything else.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 May 18 2016, 07:24 PM

I meant the team showed glimpses of genius. I say that because I have seen games where we did very well. That said I've missed probably 85% of this season.

But I do share your displeasure in the season; but in all honesty, what's new

Posted by: Jack Sparrow May 19 2016, 07:38 AM

We finished higher than earlier. But the only takeaways from this season has been Gigio and Romagnoli. We've had no solid improvements. No signs that we can challenge for the top. Nothing basically.

Posted by: han2503 May 19 2016, 08:22 PM

I hope you're right there, we can't start from zero again with Galliani at the helm. The AC Milan brand name simply cannot take anymoe of this. We're at a precipice right now. This sale not going through will be a huge blow for us. I'm just sceptical atm because it's seemingly going in the way that the Bee deal did. Constant rumours and almost official announcements with nothing really coming to fruition


I agree that there were moments where the team did well. I thought Miha was doing very well at one point, especially when we were in 4th and were within grasp of 3rd. But then we had some injuries and our squad (and the lack of decent depth) completely halted that run. The Brocchi appointment simply continued to make things worse

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 27 2016, 01:56 PM

No comments on Higuain's passing to Juve?

They are serious CL contenders now. Buffon, Bonucci, Alves, Marchisio, Khedira, Pjanic, Pogba, Dybala, Higuain. Only Madrid, Barça and Bayern are stronger.

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 27 2016, 01:57 PM

DP

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 27 2016, 02:41 PM

Hmh. That is, if Pogba stays. I'm also a bit skeptical about how much they splashed for Higuain. IMO he's not worth that kind of money.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 28 2016, 01:12 PM

Yeah, potentially Pogba and Bonucci leaving, but if they stay they have a good chance.

I think Juve winning the title somewhat overshadowed what Higuain did though. Yes, it's overpriced. But he had the greatest single scoring season in the history of Italian football. It's seems almost a sentimental move. Yes, Dybala is going to be great and Berardi will probably be there next summer - but these guys will need time. They want to win the CL and they want to do it with Buffon in goal.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 28 2016, 07:20 PM

He's not worth that kind of money, plus he's never managed to prove himself on the big stage.

I think we'll win another CL before Juve do tbh, they've always been great in the domestic league, but have always managed to shoot themselves in the foot in Europe, can't see that changing by bring in Higuain and Pjanic tbh.

Pogba will leave as well imo

They'll obviously sweep aside the league without much trouble. Which is sad, they're doing what Bayern do to the Bundesliga and it will only continue to hurt an already weak league

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 30 2016, 01:14 PM

Ditto. Agree on everything. They signed two strikers for big money, while they already have good or great attackers in the roster. So from my viewpoint, and especially if they lose out on Pogba, they did a poor job, overpaying for a department that's covered good.

As for Higuain. Yes, the record is there. Needless to say, at the lowpoint of Serie A football.

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 31 2016, 11:32 AM

Nah, it's a fantastic move, especially if they sell Pogba as the cost will be entirely covered. Higuain is a scoring machine, the sole reason why Napoli finished 2nd last season. He's the kind of striker they needed, someone who's capable of scoring +25 goals in the league, which all of Morata, Mandzukic and Zaza have failed to achieve.

Bonucci is staying.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 31 2016, 03:25 PM

Higuain scored 4 in 5 CL games with Napoli in a group with Dortmund and Arsenal. I don't think it's a stretch to say he'll do just fine at Juve. His Madrid record wasn't particularly good in the CL, but then it's never going to be when you're rotated all the time, something he likely won't be with Juve.

It makes sense. They budget each year. They obviously don't have other big plans, so why not use the budget bringing in the striker of your nearest rival?

Unfotunately, until we have our own stadium, we can't even dream of things like this again.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 31 2016, 05:09 PM

All I'm saying is, nowadays you win CL titles with either individuals like Messi or Robben or with a killer midfield that is set for creativity and destruction. By signing Higuain Juventus didn't get either so I don't think this particular transfer will bring them any more closer.

Sure, Higuain could potentially score a ton of goals. Will they secure the scudetto? Most probably. But they did so even without him. So signing star player from the rival team for such a excessively big sum doesn't make much sense to me, because in terms of CL pretenders they're still pretty much right where they were last season.

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 31 2016, 06:54 PM

Juventus are a well-oiled machine with quality players all around but which has lacked a true goalscorer all these years, a man that can secure +40 goals in all competitions and that can score from any position or manner. This is what Higuain gives them. He might not be Messi or Ibrahimovic, but along with the likes of Suarez, Lewandowski etc. right now he's one of the most prolific goalscorers in the world. 94 million might be a bit excessive considering his age as well, but in my opinion he's exactly the kind of player Juventus needed.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 31 2016, 06:55 PM

So we disagree. Especially if they sell Pogba in the end.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 2 2016, 06:05 PM

For us it simply goes far beyond just that.

Juve have the financial structure to be able to do this.

They're also going to be selling Pogba for a World record fee so I think their thinking is more along the lines of, we will be bringing in the big money so why not spend it? Plus they needed big signings to appease the fans. They did the same thing when they sold Zidane back in the day and built a top class team from that sale, this time they already had a great team so they could afford to splurge on what imo is fancy purchase.

Like Fillipo though, I think it was an unnecessary move because they'll still run over the league without much effort but I don't think they'll make much strides forward in Europe which is what they truly want. Losing Pogba is a massive blow in regards to that particular goal imo

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Aug 2 2016, 06:49 PM

Agreed. As things stand, with Fininvest (100% owner of AC Milan Group), whom have improved significantly from four years ago and have-been/are maneuvering in turbulent times through the media industry. For the past ten years the world has changed as we have all become accustomed to the new media outlets, namely social media and its subs. We get our news live on the spot from twitter, we share our pics live on the spot on snapchat and instagram, we watch/stream games by any means than pay an actual subscription with Sky, amongst other outlets i'm not savvy on.

Why have a box, when we could just get the apple tv or the amazon thingy? Heck when netflix first came to my attention, a week later i cancelled by subscription with my cable tv and handed over their box. Why not, its cheaper and at times free

Let us just say, Fininvest have done well for the past four years to reduce debt and revenue starting to pick an increasing trend.

Fininvest 31 December 2015 Financial Results:



I hope a sale will happen, and that the issue is purely bureaucratic in nature. Fininvest see this as a God-send when China comes knocking with 750M to buy a club that is in debt, in a relatively shaky shape and in a league that is in threat of loosing further group in European standing.

China will come in with BIG money, dream BIG

P.S. It took over five years of your frustration, a couple of weeks wont harm

Posted by: han2503 Aug 2 2016, 08:30 PM

Agreed. But didn't Fininvest sell the Mediaset shares as well?

At this point one has to understand why a company would want to offload the ball and chain that is Milan which is dragging it to the bottom of the ocean.

We can analyse for days about the mismanagement carried out by Galliani and his shady deal with his agent pals and Preziosi. But the problem runs deeper than that and simply put, Milan was never built to last under Silvio. Now we're suffering the consequences of that

I just worry with all these delays that this could turn into another Bee deal. So far all the companies and people which have been linked as being part of the consortium have denied involvement, just seems fishy at this point

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 3 2016, 04:34 PM

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Aug 3 2016, 08:13 PM

They still own Mediaset.

The media will create a new story for you everyday, just to keep you on their site, buy their paper, watch their program, etc. Fininvest themselves benefit both directly and indirectly from rumors. Since we have known each other on this forum how many times did a deal go through vs rumors on FI, goal, twitter, instagram, etc? The point I'm making is that there could be negotiations going on and 80% of the time it turns out to be different to what was being rumored through news outlets. We have known Milan to operate this way since we were introduced to the club, what changed?

As fishy as it may sound we still are operating under the same management that won't give info away, with any info leaked at all mostly being misleading. Rarely has there been firm backing from the club unless the deal is part and parcel and ready for delivery. Which is the case today. But in this case with a twist; you are dealing with China which has restrictions about exporting capital, not sure of details here, nonetheless the Chinese didn't come here to monkey around. Fininvest has already agreed to the new terms and are awaiting the Chinese government to clear the transfer.

I feel we are caught in limbo, but that does not mean the club hasn't been proactive and already agreed with new players but as noted above we are not party to that till it is part and parcel, and maybe even then we won't come to know. Just that when the sale goes through, there will be players of calibre at Milan by 31 August. If for some unforseen circumstance a sale does not go through, Galliani will just tell us that we have a team capable of meeting CL qualification.

But you know what really keeps me thinking? That if it was still in Berlusconi's hands we would still have Cristian as coach. Hence why I am comforted that the new coach has come with directions from new owners. I mean if you were to sell your house and the new buyers like the color white while your house is blue, wouldn't you paint it to ensure they buy your house and not the white one around the corner? Kinda thing.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 4 2016, 03:41 PM

That being said, Montella imo, is not the big name coach I would have expected to lead us through this new era, if the supposed ambitions are so high.

Either he's the transitional pick that satisfied both parties or the new owners' ambitions aren't as lofty as we're wishing and praying for

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Aug 5 2016, 07:03 AM

I don't know of a single big name coach with the exception of Simeone and Klopp (both unavailable) who doesn't work with huge budgets. That's the thing.

Similar to our players we will have to follow the same model we did with Sacchi. Find a promising coach and hope he is able to impress a philosophy that will work well in our environment.

FWIW, Montella would definitely have been been my choice above the other name - Marco Giampaolo.

1. I feel Montella has a very rich breadth of experience. Admittedly he hasn't worked under a great coach, but he's played at a very high level. He's coached some good teams and built his reputation with them. Was one of the most in-demand coaches till last season with Sampdoria which was an impossible mess to fix.

2. Is a product of the modern era and probably is more attuned to the psychology of today's players

3. Plays a brand of football that both the management and the players seem to approve of.

4. Is a very ambitious coach with high standards.

5. Walks in to his first day of work looking like this




I have to be honest - game-wise I think this is one of the best pre-seasons I have seen with Milan in recent memory. We held our own (more or less) against teams well head of us in class and in fitness. 3-4 good signings and a top 3 finish wouldn't be impossible.

But even without, assuming we can keep our current players fit, we should be able to land a top 6 position with this team for sure.

In other words, the same targets as last season.

Posted by: Ry4n Aug 6 2016, 09:12 AM

Good words.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 6 2016, 09:40 AM

At top 6 position isn't a sure thing for EL even.

Anyway, let's see what happens in these last 3 weeks or so of the transfer window.

We still have a lot of baggage we need to offload and key positions that need to be strengthened. If the squad remains relatively the same, I'd say we're in trouble

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 6 2016, 10:03 AM

Lot of baggage? Who?

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 6 2016, 01:24 PM

Vergara, Matri, possibly Ely and Luiz Adriano. Not a lot, though.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 6 2016, 01:36 PM

Yeah. And for the first time we don't have a superbig squad. So even if all the baggage leaves, we'll be needing additional rotation players. I know Han is obsessed with details, but if you ask me, it's completely irrelevant if our 4th striker is Matri, Adriano, Lucarelli or some other guy. Surely we won't have the resources to bring in Costa as 4th fiddle, so...

Posted by: han2503 Aug 6 2016, 03:43 PM

I would add Honda, Mauri, Poli and even Berto to that list.

Our current squad has 28 players, that's too much for having to play a single competition and a couple of Coppa games.

Our entire midfield is made up of useless players who bring nothing to the team.

That's basically 8 players we should be working on loaning/selling ASAP. And some of those guys are getting paid well to do nothing as well, let's not forget that (Thanks again Galliani)


I'd say a 28 player roster is still pretty big. Sure it's a minor detail, but when nearly your entire roster is filled with players who don't contribute much to the team than that small detail becomes a bigger one.

We need to sign 3 to 4 new players to compete for the European spots next season.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 6 2016, 04:09 PM

But you don't have to be concerned by sheer numbers and names. Look at it this way: at the moment, Milan has 9 midfielders on paycheck. One is still half a kid (Locatelli). If we sign new midfielders, we should think about offloading one or two. But otherwise, what would be the point in downsizing bench players like Poli and Mauri? We still need that kind of quantity available to cover for various suspensions and injuries. I don't think that at the moment we can afford nor even think about more luxurious/better bench players. So what's the point with all that counting and offloading baggage? I won't bring us far, I fail to see the relevance?

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Aug 6 2016, 04:25 PM

Same here, bring us one star player and two good ones and see what needs changing in the winter.

Each player we have will have to put in 120% to ensure the club don't replace him with a Messi.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 6 2016, 06:00 PM

You're dreaming if you think guys like Honda and Bertolacci are considered excess baggage in this club. For you, yes, but not for Montella or the management. Mauri and Poli, too, are decent rotational players.

The point is that you want a complete overhaul in midfield, but that's not gonna happen, at least not this summer. So, for the time being think minimal, e.g. Kovacic on loan, and hope that Montella's tactics will bring some fresh ideas within our game.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 6 2016, 08:27 PM

Read that Real want to keep Kovacic

We're being linked to Fiorentina's Badelj now...

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 8 2016, 10:20 AM

Should we open fresh season threads?

Posted by: han2503 Aug 8 2016, 03:33 PM

Sure, or we can maybe emend the titles of the current threads since they're so small?

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 8 2016, 04:57 PM

I think you should open one Serie A topic and another one for all the other leagues combined. That should be more than enough.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 8 2016, 05:10 PM

Really? I think that could end up with a mess. I'd rather refresh the old one, like Han suggested.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 8 2016, 05:39 PM

I find you two are bickering a lot lately... I hope it doesn't end in divorce

I'll refresh the old ones, not like the Serie A thread has much posts anyway

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 8 2016, 10:23 PM

La Liga, Bindesliga and Ligue 1 have barely 20 posts altogether. But do as you wish.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 8 2016, 10:50 PM

Perhaps. But then they'll just got messed up with all the EPL talk.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 9 2016, 01:37 PM

ManU have spent 105+5 million for Pogba, but Juventus have earned only 72,6 million from that amount. The difference is divided between the clubs that formed Pogba as a football player (Torcy and Le Havre) and his agent Mino Raiola, who's earned around 23-25 million euro in commissions from the deal!!!

http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/mercato/calcio/le-cifre-di-pogba-perche-la-juve-guadagna-solo-72-6-milioni_1112768-201602a.shtml

Posted by: han2503 Aug 9 2016, 06:34 PM

That Raiola...

Apparently he earned 8m off of us from the Ely deal... Galliani really does take care of his friends.


Also, I keep getting an error when I try to edit the title of the threads. Fillipo can you try, see if the same thing happens to you?

If not we can do what x-off said. But let's all be sure to mention what game we're talking about when posting or there could be confusion

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 9 2016, 07:22 PM

Say what? How much did we even pay for Ely in the first place?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 10 2016, 11:06 PM

Same with me. An error appears.

I'm still rooting for a more tidy system. At least separating Serie A from the rest of Europe leagues.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 12 2016, 03:57 PM

So we should just make a 2016/2017 Serie A thread and a 2016/2017 European leagues thread?

I think that's as tidy as we could get considering that not many are posting all that much nowadays and it would be pretty useless to open a thread for each league

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 12 2016, 03:58 PM

That's what I was thinking.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 12 2016, 03:59 PM

Have no clue, but I read that Milan paid more in agent fees last season than Bayern and Juve combined... That's where the Ely bit came from

But I guess that's par for the course with Galliani. We do have one of the highest wage bills in the league while consistently underachieving in terms of results when you consider what we're paying our players vs what Roma/Napoli/Fiorentina pay theirs

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 12 2016, 09:57 PM

Agreed.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 13 2016, 09:02 AM

Done

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Dec 31 2016, 04:47 PM

Wishing you all and Milan the best for the year to come!

Milan has truly defied expectations, wish to see this bunch try CL in 2017.