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Posted by: han2503 Sep 13 2017, 05:45 PM

Should be a simple game, but you never know. After the mess we saw against Lazio I'm very apprehensive.

Will also probably miss this as I have a bbq to go to. Will watch the replay if we do well.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 13 2017, 06:24 PM

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 13 2017, 08:45 PM

Now Mediaset has Calhanoglu as AM with Bona instead of Antonelli on the left.

Posted by: Danny Sep 13 2017, 10:51 PM

Think of Milan if you should find a burnt sausage.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Sep 13 2017, 11:55 PM

I like this better.

Posted by: Danny Sep 14 2017, 01:08 AM

Basically our strongest possible team, Suso and Cutrone aside.

Why no Conti, incidentally? Quite happy with Abate, fwiw.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Sep 14 2017, 08:49 AM

Sprained his right ankle when he was on duty with Italy NT.

Posted by: Danny Sep 14 2017, 09:53 AM

Danke.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Sep 14 2017, 10:28 AM

You're welcome.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2017, 01:18 PM

Now they put Antonelli instead of Bona again.

Posted by: Danny Sep 14 2017, 02:44 PM

As much as I like Antonelli for what he gave us in recent years, he's not the standard for moving forward. Good enough squad option but should never be a first choice. Just like Borini.

That said, Jack looked 10 years older than he actually is when he came on. I've never seen him look so downtrodden. Could there be doubts about his attitude/temperament/mood?

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Sep 14 2017, 04:59 PM

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Sep 14 2017, 06:08 PM

HAKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN <3

Posted by: Danny Sep 14 2017, 06:09 PM

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiit got my times wrong. Match has already started, we're one up - Hakan with the goal.

Posted by: Ry4n Sep 14 2017, 06:09 PM

Good goal!

Posted by: Ry4n Sep 14 2017, 06:11 PM

Good stuff.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Sep 14 2017, 06:11 PM

I just love Hakan Calhanoglu !!!

Posted by: Fishdoll Sep 14 2017, 06:20 PM

Aaaand, this fish is still at work. ARGH. Am able to listen to RAI's radio commentary (actually a lot of fun, but good gosh do these guys speak Italian quickly.)

Will be seeing it on replay later tonight, though. Sounds much more encouraging than the game v Lazio.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Sep 14 2017, 06:21 PM

Give Hakan his position, he gives you the win !

Posted by: Fishdoll Sep 14 2017, 06:30 PM

Atalanta is leading Everton 1-0. Goal Masiello off of a corner.

EDIT: make that 2-0. Goal Papu Gomez.

Edit 2: make that 3-0. Cristante

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 14 2017, 07:04 PM

Hakan at his best.

Typical for him. He is a talented guy, but he picks his games. When things go his way, he usually plays well and contributes. But he's got that strange habit of disappearing or playing terrible when things go south. Reminds me of Gourcuff, unquestionable talent, yet lacking effort and mental strength.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Sep 14 2017, 07:15 PM

Silva hat-trick !

Posted by: Fishdoll Sep 14 2017, 07:19 PM

Much better indeed.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Sep 14 2017, 07:22 PM

OMG, what a goal by SUSO !!!

Posted by: Ry4n Sep 14 2017, 07:23 PM

Different class , this game is over time to go to the gym. Next!

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Sep 14 2017, 07:51 PM

FT 1-5 !

Posted by: Danny Sep 14 2017, 08:23 PM

Without meaning to be too grumpy, Vienna are fourth in the Austrian Bundesliga. They are about the same as Crotone.

Atalanta put Everton away with ease as well.

Let's judge on league results, not the Consolation Cup.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2017, 08:25 PM

Seems like it was another EL walkover from the comments here

What did you guys think of the team considering we were playing a back 3? Did they look okay? Saw the highlights, Zapata's defending on the corner was comical but other than that I didn't see any other defensive contributions on our part on the highlight reel

Will try to catch a replay tomorrow.

We'll see what we can do in the league next Sunday, that's the real test imo

Posted by: Danny Sep 14 2017, 09:42 PM

Best we've defended since the last time we played a three.

And that wasn't a corner. As in, it was, but it was wildly outside the quadrant and was completely illegal.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2017, 10:18 PM

Vienna were just poor on every level. We need to up the tempo of our play. More movement, quick passes and mutual understanding from the players is necessary if we wanna excel at higher levels. Because right now we're too static, and that might work against the Vienna's and Crotone's but not against a tougher opponent.

As for individual performances, Calhanoglu was super inspired tonight, especially in the first half. We haven't had a player with his passing and vision since Pirlo. I'm also in love with Silva's overall style of play. He has great technique and movements. If he can be as deadly in front of the goal as he was tonight then we have a champion in the making in our hands here.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Sep 14 2017, 10:21 PM

Vincenzo Montella believes a setback “did us good,” as Milan flattened Austria Vienna 5-1. “The hat-trick will boost Andre Silva’s confidence.”

The Rossoneri have won all five of their Europa League games this season, including the preliminary rounds, but this was their first match since the 4-1 Serie A loss at the Olimpico.

“Sunday’s defeat to Lazio was weighing on us, but today I liked the spirit and interpretation of the game,” Montella told Sky Sport Italia.

“The side played with pace, got the result under lock and key by half-time, then we saw the willingness to suffer and be solid. There was a slight drop in concentration levels after the restart, so we need to work on that, but we are happy with this victory.”

This was the first really successful test for the 3-5-2 formation, though Hakan Calhanoglu had a free role.

“We built this squad thinking of a three-man defence, but had to wait until Alessio Romagnoli was fully recovered.”

While Calhanoglu was inspirational, Andre Silva was the star of the show with a hat-trick.

“Silva is hungry and he scores goals. Today he was able to make the most of his characteristics, attacking the space. He seemed much better than in other games and this will really boost his confidence. He needed that.

“Calhanoglu had a great performance, he played vertical passes and set up goals for his teammates. We worked on the strikers pressing the opposition, and were more determined tonight.

“I think the defeat to Lazio did us good and we’ve got to feed this determination throughout the campaign.

“In other matches this season, we didn’t finish the job and therefore left the door open to our opponents. Tonight we changed that. It’s important to focus on mental strength and concentration throughout a game.”

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2017, 11:15 PM

I sure as hell hope Montella won't play Borini and Cutrone in the next league game.

Posted by: Danny Sep 15 2017, 11:23 AM

Lie.

Posted by: Danny Sep 15 2017, 11:23 AM

Which is why this is yet another comfy win that's ultimately meaningless.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 15 2017, 11:49 AM

Agreed. He just saw his system fall apart against Lazio and had to succumb to the pressure of playing with a 3-man defense.



The win, perhaps, but at least we won't have to witness to that ugly 4-3-3 with Calabria, Borini and Cutrone anymore.

Posted by: Danny Sep 15 2017, 02:47 PM

It was comical - watching Abate cover Bonucci in the way a full back should when a CB is bypassed is the way to do it. Calabria was away in Hawaii when our backline was being attacked v Lazio.



Not sure about that - he could have selected Abate for Lazio but inexplicably went with the younger shiter version. And nothing wrong with Cutrone! Are you really dissing arguably our joint best player this season?! Agreed on Borini - I was more generous with him than the rest but he offers nothing in that position. Or any, really.

But yes, no more 4-3-3. We hope.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 15 2017, 03:22 PM

Cutrone really offers nothing to our game. He's just a poacher who scores the easy goals. Silva and Kalinic are way better all-around strikers who contribute to much more.

Posted by: Fishdoll Sep 15 2017, 03:23 PM

So what was the general opinion on Abate?

It appears we may be seeing quite a lot of him for the next few months.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 15 2017, 04:11 PM

Abate is good, always has been. But for RWB Conti is better. Bummer about his injury.

Posted by: Danny Sep 15 2017, 06:23 PM

I'm the one who gets absolutely panned around here for 'judging' after one game. Seems I'm not the only one guilty of it.

Posted by: Danny Sep 15 2017, 06:23 PM

Fixed that for you

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 15 2017, 08:54 PM

You think Cutrone has an ounce of the technique that Silva or even Kalinic posses?



You don't think Conti is a better RWB than Abate?

Posted by: Danny Sep 15 2017, 09:44 PM

I think your dismissal of him after the start he's made is disappointing.



I think claiming he is after a mere few appearances is insulting to Abate.

You seem eager to destroy anyone we didn't sign this summer.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 15 2017, 11:15 PM

He had a fantastic start, but I'm no stats man. I look at what a player contributes to the overall play. Cutrone's scoring rate has been great given he's just a Primavera kid, but you can't deny that he thrives on service. When there's no service, as it happened against Lazio, he practically becomes a non-player.

Kalinic and Silva have far superior technique, they are better at handling the ball and thus get more involved with the rest of the team. Hence why I prefer them over Cutrone.



Maybe you're not aware of the fact that I'm the biggest Abate fan here. But I know his limitations, especially when it comes to crossing, something Conti is really good at. Hence why I said he's the better RWB. I never said he's the better player overall, because I think Abate is much better defensively.

Posted by: Danny Sep 16 2017, 12:30 PM

If we're going with a 3-5-2 we're looking at any two of Kalinic, Cutrone, Silva and Suso up front. It's not quite MSN but it's not bad and I don't really want to dismiss any of these players for any reason.

I do find it intriguing you don't really want to be positive about his scoring rate; indeed, you're using the same argument against him as many did against Bacca. Are Milan fans against Inzaghi-style players now?



*raises hand*



To be a right wing back requires quality in both attack and defence. In truth it is barely any different to RB nowadays. So if you think one is better at defending and one is better at attacking then I'm a little confused as to why you would have a preference at all. For me I think both rotate nicely and both are fine options to have, game dependent.

And I'm yet to see Conti produce a good cross so I'll bow to your knowledge of him there.

Posted by: amancik Sep 16 2017, 03:13 PM

I don't think Milan fans generally are against Inzaghi-style players. It's just that Inzaghi-style players are icing on the cake type of players. You can't have them as the main man leading the attack for the whole season. Inzaghi excelled because when we were playing with two strikers, Shevchenko was next to him. When we played Inzaghi as a lone striker, Kaka was behind him. My point is that Inzaghi was never the main 'threat' therefore the focus was not on him. These type of strikers, the more they are in the spotlight, the less effective they become and more so if he cannot receive services. But Kalinic and Silva both have something extra that they need not necessarily rely entirely on services from midfield.

So, do not dismiss Cutrone yet. There will be games where he will be exactly what we need. But for the long-haul, Kalinic and Silva should lead the line.

Posted by: Danny Sep 16 2017, 03:16 PM

Bear in mind, neither of them have scored in Serie A for us. I think this sudden waxing lyrical about them is a bit premature tbh.

Neither has proven a thing, while Cutrone's scored plenty already.

I await the next Serie A match where one or both of Kalinic or Silva has a rubbish match and guys are suddenly screaming for Cutrone or saying the two of them suck.

Meh.

Posted by: amancik Sep 16 2017, 03:52 PM

I don't disagree. Kalinic and Silva have yet to do anything in Serie A. But as I said, they have something more than Cutrone in terms of team play. In the long-run, you'd want that.

But again, like I said there will be times where we'll be screaming for Cutrone. So for the most part, I'd like to see Kalinic and Silva pairing with Calhanoglu pulling the strings behind them. Besides, I'd rather we not put too much pressure on Cutrone and let him develop slowly and surely.

I was one of those who wanted Cutrone to keep playing because he was on a hot streak so for me it was fair to give him the chance to continue that streak. But as we saw against Lazio, there are limitations to his game. Let me reiterate, his game. Not his talent.

Posted by: Danny Sep 16 2017, 08:30 PM

As we saw against Lazio, there's limitations to the 4-3-3 used against a half decent team.

It had nothing to do with Cutrone.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 16 2017, 10:40 PM

I'm not dismissing Cutrone, at all. I'm just saying Kalinic, Silva and Suso offer much more than just tap-in goals.

And if we really wanna talk about scoring rates, then Silva has the best of all our players, every 68 minutes on average.



Wingbacks have less defensive duties, I can't see how you say they barely differ from fullbacks. A fullback in principle is still a defender, whereas a wingback is a midfielder. Obviously both have to defend, but a wingback attacks more and defends less than a fullback.

Oh, and if you haven't seen Conti produce a good cross then maybe you haven't paid much attention to our games.

Posted by: Danny Sep 17 2017, 11:11 AM

I'd have to agree of late. I haven't.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 17 2017, 12:38 PM

Inzaghi style players are a luxury that most teams cannot afford nowadays. Not even the most fluid and creative sides out there make use of a poacher. When you have someone like that upfront, you generally feel like you have a numerical disadvantage. We did it in the past with Pippo, nowadays it's just not feasible. I'm not going to go all out and say that Cutrone is simply a Pippo-style player, I haven't seen enough of him to determine that. Bacca in his first season offered much more than just tap-ins while he looked lazy and uninterested last season and that hurt our game a lot.

Point is, when you have players like Kalinic or Sila, you have to play them ahead of the poacher, because they will give you more.


Conti was one of the best RWBs in the league last season, no question. His injury will be a massive headache for us.

Abate has been one of my favourite players for a while now, but he's been in a steady decline over these last 3 seasons , he's not as quick, not as good defensively and is getting error prone. A|dd to that he never impressed me as a RWB for Italy, so that's another issue for me

As for defending vs attacking. Let's put it this way, a FB has more defensive duties than a RWB, the positions are different and they're executed differently as well, Conti plays the RWB position perfectly because he loves attacking and is quick enough to get back, I think Abate will find it hard tbh


Neither have been given a decent chance in Serie A, especially Silva, so how can they score?


Agreed

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 17 2017, 02:56 PM

I have to say that Pippo had more technique than Cutrone. Pippo had a very awkward handling of the ball, so sometimes he looked like he couldn't even dribble. But go look back at some of his goals, the guy was like a snake. What a player!

Posted by: han2503 Sep 17 2017, 04:40 PM

Disagree there.

Cutrone can dribble/pass/hold the ball up. Pippo didn't do any of that. I think there's a difference between having good technique and just being able to score nice/improbable goals. As a player Pippo was just awkward and sometimes even funny to watch when he tried to dribble or do anything really outside of the box. Cutrone looks decent on the ball

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 17 2017, 04:57 PM

And I disagree. I didn't say that Cutrone cannot do any of those things you mentioned, but as far as proper technique goes, Pippo was far superior. I already said he looked awkward but that doesn't mean he wasn't effective.

If you want a simple example of what I'm trying to say here, then check https://youtu.be/-wLRWrxkOgw?t=8m29s against Ajax. The way he controls the ball, dribbles the defender and makes the cross (albeit deflected). That is pure technique. If he didn't have that then he wouldn't have scored so many goals in his careers. Sometimes instinct alone is not sufficient.

Posted by: Danny Sep 17 2017, 09:04 PM

Will you two get a room where you can agree and disagree with each other like a married couple