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Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 08:59 AM

This is the July Schedule



The Audi Cup will be played in August along with Real, Bayern and a 4th team that has not been announced as of yet

Plus, there will probably be other Italian friendly tournaments we'll be playing in August. The Tim trophy for sure, maybe the Birra Moretti trophy and the Berlusconi trophy, although it didn't happen last season IIRC

Can't wait to get trashed by Real again this summer, it's becoming an annual festivity for us in the pre-season.

Probable line-up for today's game

(4-3-1-2): Abbiati; Abate, Ely, Paletta, Albertazzi; Poli, De Jong, Nocerino; Suso; Cerci, Cutrone.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 10 2015, 11:04 AM

Good, for the first time I'll be able to know in advance when are boys play.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 12:32 PM

We probably won't get to see these first 2 games live. I think only Mediaset Premium has them live so it will be difficult to even find a stream, let alone one that works

Posted by: Ry4n Jul 10 2015, 01:06 PM

First ones tonight but doubt it will be on tv over here

Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 04:11 PM

Official line-up vs. Alcione (4-3-1-2): Abbiati; Abate, Zaccardo, Albertazzi, Calabria; Poli, De Jong, Pessina; Locatelli; Cerci, Mastour.

Good few of these players will most likely be given time for Mija to assess before giving any clear indication on whether we should keep or let go.

Looking at Zaccardo, Albertazzi, and Poli mostly here

Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 04:14 PM

http://www.calcion.md/live30.htm

Check that link for a possible stream

Posted by: nuh Jul 10 2015, 04:19 PM

Thank you so much!!

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 10 2015, 04:29 PM

Kinda disappointed that Suso isn't starting.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 04:55 PM

And Ely as well, what was the point of bringing him back if he's not even going to play a pointless friendly ahead of someone like Zaccardo?

Hopefully it's as I said previously and Miha is using this so he can tell Galliani he has no use for certain players after seeing them in a match

Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 04:58 PM

Apparently this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0tnyUUGZWA will also stream the game.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 05:00 PM

The first one works for me though, the youtube one is blank, so go with the first

Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 05:06 PM

Lol, we're already losing

Things are still very consistent at Milan

Nice one Zaccardo! What an ace!

Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 05:09 PM

Lol, Zaccardo making an awesome case for himself here

Posted by: William405 Jul 10 2015, 05:18 PM

Thanks for the link Han.

I just tuned in. :/

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 10 2015, 05:21 PM

Why is NdJ taking penalties? And is it me or did he throw in a fee extra pounds?

Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 05:23 PM

Not all bad. De Jong is basically pushing these players around, it's clear who was our best player last season in this bunch and why.

Locatelli is a very interesting player, I can only assume he's being given time to see if he should be loaned out to gain experience elsewhere. If I was watching this game without any pre-conceived notions about who Mastour was, and I was just looking at 2 Primavera kids, Locatelli would be the one that's caught my eye so far. Mastour did a roulette under zero pressure and touched the ball about 4 times overall. Nothing to get me off my seat as of yet

Cerci still just as clueless as ever. Poli huffing and puffing as usual without much to show for it

Zaccardo is just embarrassing himself out there, don't know what this guy is still doing playing pro-football. He wouldn't even be fit to start for a Serie B side imo

Posted by: William405 Jul 10 2015, 05:29 PM

Ahh thanks for the updates, internet is really acting up..not working at all.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 05:34 PM

Currently at 2-1

De Jong with a penalty and Poli after a well worked move between Locatelli and Cerci

Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 05:35 PM

This Locatelli kid.... Very smart!

Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 05:37 PM

Calabria also looks solid in that LB position although there hasn't been much to do on the defensive front. Gets forward well though

Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 05:45 PM

3-1 Cerci

Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 05:47 PM

HT

Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 05:48 PM

Anyone know what division Alcione play in?

Posted by: William405 Jul 10 2015, 05:48 PM

It's halftime? They're airing Tennis ATM.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 10 2015, 05:49 PM

Patience Han, patience.

Both Mastour and Locatelli showed some good moments. Both have talent. Locatelli seemed to me more focused and in this game with his head. But both will need to evolve more. Still raw talents IMO.

Cerci was solid, but we have to ship him off as well. He's just not needed. I think Poli and NdJ did good.

But in all honesty, this team is a amateur side, so no real test there.

Btw. is Donnarumma the praised young goalie we have? And wasn't there another Donnarumma at Milan some years ago?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 10 2015, 06:11 PM

Zaccardo is a joke really. Painful to watch.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 06:13 PM

Yep, probably switched over during the break


Where do you see me not being patient?

Just saying, that if I were to be watching this game without any pre-conceived notion about Mastour, Locatelli would have been the one to have caught my eye. But because we know so much about Mastour, I constantly have my eye on him to watch his movements and how he handles himself under pressure and how his decision making is.

I think Mastour is talented, but not to the level we all hope he will be.

Meh, Cerci for me being half decent against this side just shows how terrible average (being generous by not saying mediocre here) he is. Poli is a good team player, but really, when you watch him, do you constantly wonder what he's adding to the team and the dynamic of that midfield? Because that's what I do every time I watch him

Yes, and I don't know about any other Bonnarumma but yes, it does seem familiar to me

Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 06:17 PM

Btw, there's been a total change in the line-up from what I can see

Alex, Nocerino, Mauri, Niang, Suso and I think Mastalli and striker came in

Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 06:19 PM

Current line-up from what I can tell

Niang just scored the 5th, don't know who scored the 4th though

Posted by: William405 Jul 10 2015, 06:22 PM

He scored the 4th too.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 06:26 PM

Hadn't turned my stream back on for that one

My God, I can't believe how actually bad Zaccardo is, just incomprehensible

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 10 2015, 06:33 PM

Patient with the youngsters. Yes, Locatelli had a better showing. Will be interesting to see where they end up.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 10 2015, 06:34 PM

Nocerino giving his best to impress.

Posted by: William405 Jul 10 2015, 06:46 PM

Wouldn't mind keeping him as a squad player. It's just that we have too many of such players..they virtually add nothing to the play. Noce's still got a good shot in him though.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 10 2015, 06:51 PM

Agreed, yes. Poli, Nocerino, Bonaventura, NdJ, Mastalli (?) all seem to be quite similar. Then we have also Mauri and Bertolacci who still should be evaluated.

Posted by: acid911 Jul 10 2015, 07:02 PM

Always liked the guy, to be honest. Nothing special, but played within himself and gave it his all. Not a bad player to have on the team in crisis situations, wonder what the future holds for him.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 07:41 PM

Mihajlovic said after the match that the squad will be reduced to 25 players.

That means more than 11 players will be sold/loaned/let go considering we'll most likely bring in 3 more (CB, CM and Ibra)

I think at this point it's pretty obvious who those players should be. Hopefully Galliani works fast to remove them from the squad and we still don't have close to 30 players by the end of August

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 10 2015, 08:28 PM

The roster has to be reduced to 25 players because new Serie A rules require so.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 10 2015, 08:31 PM

So that will come into effect next season for sure?

Posted by: Ry4n Jul 10 2015, 08:37 PM

We can only hope mate.

Posted by: Ry4n Jul 10 2015, 08:38 PM

Cant wait to see who left out..

Anyone have any highlights couldnt watch the game over here!

http://www.football-italia.net/68997/niang-shines-milan-test

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 10 2015, 08:46 PM

Yes.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 14 2015, 03:52 PM

Official line-up for today's friendly

(4-3-1-2): Diego Lopez; Abate, Alex, Rodrigo Ely, Albertazzi; Poli, Jose Mauri, Bonaventura; Suso; Niang, Mastour

Will be interesting to see how that midfield works

Posted by: rip Jul 14 2015, 07:11 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjOgPCJjKxQ

hilights. nice goal by Mastour

Posted by: acid911 Jul 14 2015, 08:18 PM

Quick! Sell him! Thanks for the highlights, by the way.

Posted by: rip Jul 14 2015, 08:32 PM

welcome

Posted by: Ry4n Jul 14 2015, 08:38 PM

thanks for the highlights!

Posted by: acid911 Jul 14 2015, 10:14 PM

Posted by: William405 Jul 18 2015, 07:21 AM

We're playing OL tonight at the usual CL time.(2:45 EST time)

Posted by: Danny Jul 18 2015, 06:57 PM

Team:

Diego Lopez; De Sciglio Alex Ely Calabria; De Jong (CAP), Nocerino, Bertolacci; Bonaventura Suso Niang

4:3:3

Most eyes will be on Bertolacci I assume.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 18 2015, 08:20 PM

anyone watching?

Posted by: Danny Jul 18 2015, 08:44 PM

If you can call it that. Stream is very very blurry.

It was energetic for the first 30 then got bogged down, and that back four has been diabolical throughout.

Hard to identify players though.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 18 2015, 08:55 PM

use this one Danny

http://livetv.sx/de/eventinfo/326077_lyon_milan/#webplayer_youtube|4Z2EbYiWW_4|326077|311985|5|1|de

Posted by: William405 Jul 18 2015, 08:58 PM

i'm watching it too

Posted by: han2503 Jul 18 2015, 08:59 PM

Just tuned in

Have there been a lot of subs?

Posted by: han2503 Jul 18 2015, 09:00 PM

Our midfield is diabolical, all they've done since I started watching is foul and lose the ball

Posted by: han2503 Jul 18 2015, 09:04 PM

My god!! We don't even know how to hit a simple pass. Either they're too strong or too weak or completely off target.

10 minutes and I already feel like I've seen enough of this

The same BS as last season

Posted by: han2503 Jul 18 2015, 09:10 PM

The defensive stylings of lord Zaccardo are about to commence, brace yourselves

Posted by: han2503 Jul 18 2015, 09:11 PM

Lopez has better vision/creativity than most of our so called mids...

Posted by: Danny Jul 18 2015, 09:53 PM

Too late, never saw this till now!

Ultimately the midfield didn't function and there was simply no defence.

But given we only started literally about three or four players we'd consider first team material (Berto, Lopez, De Jong maybe MDS) that's not that shocking.

That out there was the squad being used.

It's also a friendly.

Posted by: William405 Jul 18 2015, 10:14 PM

Yeah, agreed with Danny. Though, I would have liked to see some legit build up play. It was a mess in midfield as usual. We have too many attack minded/individual players...well let's see what happens anyway.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 19 2015, 10:38 AM

It is just a friendly.

But I would like to hope that we've learned from past mistakes and we'll use these summer warm-up games more wisely. Instead of just throwing in a random 11 half made up of players who won't be starting or will most likely be sold, I would like to see Miha actually trying to use the team (or at least the closest he can come to it) he envisions starting in the league.

So when we do play that first league game it's not once again a total mess of un-coordinated guys out there who look like they've never passed a ball to each other in their entire lives.

Posted by: Danny Jul 19 2015, 11:49 AM

Don't know if you heard, but he sees Bacca, Adriano, Menez and, notably, Zapata, as important players to the team.

I am wondering if he rates Zaps higher than many around here do, and sees a defence of him as the foil to a Mexes/Alex/AN Other alpha partner.

As for this match, we simply don't know what our defence is right now, given we haven't made any signings, and Abate (and Zapata) wasn't available last night so the defence was a hodpotch. Midfield, well, we started two of the three we envisage as first-picks but it was their first match together.

And we can discount the entire attack.

What I'd say is cut a little slack for now. If it's still this messy in October then we can be a little concerned.

Posted by: acid911 Jul 19 2015, 01:20 PM

Very concerned, actually.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 19 2015, 01:53 PM

I wouldn't believe anything atm about what he feels about player A or player B

Zapata hasn't even gotten back from his vacation, I doubt Mihajlovic has any concrete opinions about him when he hasn't even seen him training once

There have been a lot of these reports about Miha wanting this or that player to stay or wanting so and so to leave.

But in truth this is all just speculation from papers as they don't have much to go on atm, especially with Galliani issuing a code of silence after the Kondogbia and Martinez embarrassments.

Just a few days ago I read that he had declared Cerci and someone else as un-transferrable. Simply had to laugh at that one. Cerci has been garbage for an entire year now, he was barely even noticeable against the barely pro sides we just played in the first 2 friendlies.

The only reason Cerci will most likely stay is because we can't resolve the loan issue there is since it's already pretty complicated with Torres and A. Madrid involved. Doubt that we can just as easily loan him somewhere else, like they probably want to do

Posted by: Danny Jul 19 2015, 02:45 PM

See above.



He was actually one of our decent players yesterday. Did well up front, and set up Poli.



He's also not our player?

Posted by: han2503 Jul 19 2015, 03:11 PM

That's not exactly saying that he sees him as an important cog either

I think if an offer comes in for him, he'll be out as fast as Rami was


Just because he set up a goal doesn't mean his overall game was good imo.

He was mostly fumbling about out there, bad passes, bad decision making, bad end product, just overall pretty mediocre.


Nope, we swapped him and Torres on a 2 year loan deal.

So we can't just terminate the loan and send him back because it would most likely impact the Torres end of the agreement and we can't loan him to another club because he's ultimately not ours to do with as we please.

Posted by: Danny Jul 19 2015, 03:30 PM

Um, yes it is. That's what he just called him.



Rami stunk. Zapata is a better stopper. Needs a good partner, but if he sells Zapata he has Mexes, Alex and THAT'S IT!



I disagree. Thought he was ok. Not wonderful, but ok.



Sarcasm doesn't travel in text at times. I know he's a loan player, my statement was trying to point out that you were implying he WAS our player.

PS it wouldn't impact Torres - Torres is our actual property. We can terminate the loan for Cerci and just leave Torres in Madrid.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 19 2015, 05:16 PM

"The players who have yet to arrive, like Carlos Bacca, Luiz Adriano, Jeremy Menez and Cristian Zapata, can make the difference.”
That's hardly saying that he'll be a crucial element in the side imo. But we all interpret things how we want to, so you could be right or wrong on this. I personally don't think Zapata will be a sure starter. And if he is at the start of te season, he himself will make sure to play himself out of the starting 11 right quick


If Rami stunk, so did Zapata. They both had approximately the same amount of games where they truly played well. And they both showed that they could produce down right terrible performances in their own ways.

And I'm 100% sure we will at least buy 1 CB if nothing else. We also have Ely and something tells me that he won't be made into the peripheral figure we're all hoping he'll be


Meh, for me he wasn't. There's just something very simple/average about him.


Sarcasm isn't the only thing that sometimes gets lost in translation when you're just writing things out. Didn't mean to imply that about him

And I think it would effect the deal. Atletico don't want Cerci back. So I don't think they'll accept the termination that lightly, or else I feel like we'd have already done that by now considering our squad size and how desperate we are to reduce it

Posted by: Danny Jul 19 2015, 08:44 PM

Like he did a few seasons ago alongside Mexes, you mean?



Zapata's only failings are some questionable positional sense and misplaced passes. He could at least put in tackles, get back in time, and 'defend'. Rami just couldn't, for us. He was better on the ball, much better, but as a defender, he stunk. End of discussion for me.



He's a counter-winger. Exploits space and counters to expose defences. Worked wonderfully at Torino, not so at Atleti or us. He's a mid-table player, not because of his ability, but because of his style.




We've shed like 400 players. The urgency to streamline is nowhere near what it was.

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 20 2015, 10:31 AM

Suso, Niang and Cerci won't leave, according to MilanNews.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 20 2015, 11:22 AM

Yes, that's why we signed Zapata on a permanent deal after all. But he is a player that absolutely requires a "hand holder" playing next to him or else he'll just fall apart.

And that's why I just don't think he's a viable option for a definite starter moving forward.

Maybe for just next season he'll be okay since it is a transition one, just like it was a good idea to keep Mexes. But should we get back into the CL the following season, we absolutely do need to eliminate defenders like Zapata who always have a mistake in them

If you think those failings are just minor, which is the sense that I'm getting from this post, then fine. But imo, they're big issues and shortcomings for him as a player. His mistakes have directly lead to us conceding goals. And I'm not even going into the Rami vs Zapata debate here, that's pointless now that he's not even our player anymore. I'm just talking about Zapata as the defender


Agreed, this is the very same reason why I didn't want him to join us to begin with and why I don't think he'll ever be useful in our team and why we should be looking to offload him is it is at all possible.


No actually we haven't

We've only sold 2 players actually. The other 5 or so players had their contracts run out

We still have a bunch of players that we absolutely need to offload considering we also had a bunch that came back after loan spells and we need to get the squad size down to 25 by requirement.

Atm, we need to offload at least 10 players, also considering that we will most likely make 2 or 3 more signings


Too bad. Our attack is already overloaded.

I already foresaw the Cerci thing but I really do think that Niang should definitely be sent back to Genoa for another year. I till do him well plus it will be another name removed from the squad list

I think Suso would also benefit more from a loan than staying on

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 20 2015, 11:37 AM

I would keep Suso.

Supposing we sign Romagnoli and Ibra but no mid, how far do you guys think we can compete?

Posted by: Danny Jul 20 2015, 12:06 PM

Theoretical team then:

Lopez, Abate, Alex/Mexes, Romagnoli, Antonelli/MDS; De Jong, Bertolacci, Monto.; Ibra; Bacca, Adriano

That for me is a top five team. It's a vast improvement on last season, but I think UCL is just a little bit off. I stand by that.

After all, a very strong Sevilla featuring Bacca's 20+ goals also could only manage fifth, and they were managed by Emery.

Maybe not the most 'like for like' there is but gives a vague indication.

(really disappointing that the Witsel story appears to be fading so dramatically. I'd have him in instead of Monto.

Posted by: Danny Jul 20 2015, 12:08 PM

Confirmed. Mihajlovic took them off the market, whatever that means. Cerci wasn't technically on it given he isn't our bloody player!

Niang has potential and improved at Genoa, to add to his improvement at Milan earlier, but he may suffer from 'small club syndrome' where he just can't do it at a massive club like Milan, but can at a mid table one. And yes, I know I know, we are technically midtable ourselves but you know what I mean.

Posted by: Danny Jul 20 2015, 12:15 PM

Nonsensical argument. I've just pointed out next to an alpha partner he's fine. Which you agree with. Then say he's not viable. Completely ignoring the part where you accept he is.



Ah yes, and Mexes is Mr Perfect



Which is why I cannot fathom why you trust Mexes so implictly when he too has commited more than his fair share of basic calamities.



Utter semantics. Whether by sale or contract expiry we've shed lots of players. You can't dispute that.



We get rid of 10 players and you're still not happy!

Posted by: han2503 Jul 20 2015, 01:35 PM

That team you posted is depressing more than anything else. Especially the midfield.

Also important to acknowledge that there is no way Ibra will be used as an AM unless there's a situation where Miha has no other choices for that position

He will be the starting striker just a bit behind Bacca. Adriano won't be a starter


Next to a leader he's generally fine, I agree. But he still makes passing mistakes even when next to someone who's leading the defensive line next to him. Which is unacceptable imo for a defender who's starting for us to commit such an elementary level mistake. This is not simply just someone who doesn't have positional sense, but someone who will commit mistakes which are 100% avoidable!


Where have you ever seen me say that he was even close to that?


Because Mexes' problems imo are not related to his quality, but more to his temperament which can let the entire team down every now and again.

When it comes to basic defensive errors you rarely see Mexes committing one. Sure he has it in him, but then again, even some of the best defenders around right now have that in them, and I don't consider Mexes anywhere near their level


Saying we've gotten rid of 400 players was pointless also. We've gotten rid of 12 players in total IIRC, counting the ones sent on loan as well. Yet we still have a roster that exceeds the required number by over 10, and that's not even counting the potential 3 more signings we reportedly want to make

There's still a lot of work to do in this regard and not all players will be that easy to get rid of


If we got rid of the 10 deadweights we still have left consider me ecstatic

@ x-off, I'd personally prefer if Suso was loaned tbh. Can't see him getting significant time tbh and it would be a waste to leave him on the bench for another season. Same with Niang, there really nothing all that special about him, but if he goes to Genoa and manages a 10+ goal season we can get decent cash for him the following summer

Posted by: Danny Jul 22 2015, 11:18 AM

The squad on the plane:



Notably unhappy looking are Monto, Honda, Bona, Poli, Suso.

It's just a moment in time, and right after this they could all have looked wildly pleased, but if this photo is an indication of who's in favour and who isn't, then the above five may not play an especially big role this season.

Curiously, Cerci looks overjoyed. And Adriano looks like the cat who got the cream.

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 22 2015, 12:18 PM

There's no Suso in that picture. Did you mistake Matri for him?

Posted by: milanbuf88 Jul 22 2015, 12:19 PM

You're reading way too much into one photo. It's very evident from half of the team's gaze, including half of the guys you mentioned, that they are looking at something to the right of our field of view. They probably don't even realize a picture is being taken.

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 22 2015, 12:28 PM

Agreed.

Posted by: Danny Jul 22 2015, 01:28 PM

Apparently so, but the logic would still apply.

Posted by: Danny Jul 22 2015, 01:36 PM

Maybe I am, but Monto sure knows a photo is being taken, as does Poli, and they look stoic.

Honda, Matri and Bona I could probably give you, but who is the one in front of Bona, smiling while looking in that direction?

Posted by: Danny Jul 22 2015, 01:37 PM

PS Suso looks a lot like Matri from a distance - especially if he was to get a haircut.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 22 2015, 02:12 PM

I think the only way we'll know who's in favour with Miha is over these next few friendlies. Especially when we're playing Real and Inter. August friendlies will tell us even more. And even from that you can't be a 100% sure as some of these guys will be sold

Posted by: milanbuf88 Jul 22 2015, 05:42 PM

Honestly I think you're being a bit ridiculous. Maybe it's just because I'm on my phone but the resolution on that picture is awful. I can't even make out Monto's face well enough remark on his facial expression definitely. Poli looks like he just glanced to the side moments before the photo was taken. That's all besides the point though. This is one moment of travel on what will be a long trip for the team. Even if Miha promised Poli he was going to be an automatic starter until he was 50 would you expect him to be beaming 24/7? We'll find out soon enough when competitive matches start up.

Posted by: Danny Jul 22 2015, 06:41 PM

That half the group look delighted and the other half look despondent is telling.

I don't think I'm being ridiculous, and I've admitted this might not be completely accurate.

PS, Monto's face is clear enough, it is because you're on your phone.

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 22 2015, 07:08 PM

Monto, Honda, Bona, Poli and Matri look unhappy because they had lost a poker match the other night. There you go.

Posted by: Danny Jul 22 2015, 08:24 PM

Did you just make that up?

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 22 2015, 10:26 PM

Who knows. But it sounds more believable than them not smiling because they're not part of Sinisa's plans.

Posted by: Danny Jul 23 2015, 12:30 AM

I didn't say they deliberately didn't smile. I am suggesting their rather grim faces are reflective of the fact they were in no mood to smile, and my conjecture is that could be due to their futures being uncertain at Milan.

I might be miles off.

It barely matters.

Just a bit of observational fun.

Posted by: milanbuf88 Jul 23 2015, 03:47 AM

Posted by: William405 Jul 25 2015, 06:14 AM

There's the Milan derby today, if anyone cares..It's at 12:00 gmt+0

Forza Milan!

Posted by: han2503 Jul 25 2015, 08:58 AM

Yep. One in the afternoon CET

Posted by: Danny Jul 25 2015, 10:17 AM

Everything, and I mean everything is on at the same time today. I might have to miss this one - which is no big deal as the projected lineup is really crap.

Posted by: William405 Jul 25 2015, 12:43 PM

Milan: Diego Lopez; Calabria, Alex, Ely, De Sciglio; De Jong, Poli, Bertolacci; Honda; Matri, Niang

Milan bench: Abbiati, Antonelli, Bacca, Bonaventura, Cerci, Gori, Suso, Jose Mauri, Mexes, Montolivo, Nocerino, Paletta

Inter: Carrizo; Santon, Andreolli, Popa, Nagatomo; Gnoukouri, Taider; Baldini, Delgado, Dimarco; Longo

Inter bench: Handanovic, Berni, Juan Jesus, Kondogbia, Palacio, Icardi, Kovacic, Guarin, Montoya, Ranocchia, D'Ambrosio, Brozovic, Hernanes

Posted by: William405 Jul 25 2015, 12:43 PM

Inter's lineup is terrible.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 25 2015, 01:31 PM

Why is Ely starting all these pre-season games? Seems strange...

Posted by: han2503 Jul 25 2015, 01:38 PM

Niang's finishing still as terrible as ever I see. Matri is just a waste of space. What's he doing even starting these friendlies? Need to offload him ASAP

Consdiering this is Inter's Primavera plus a few backups, we really should be doing much better

Posted by: maldini03 Jul 25 2015, 01:55 PM

HT 0-0. DeSciglio and Calabria both look pretty good, and yes Matri is a complete waste of space. Niang and Hnda liking up pretty well though midfield.

Posted by: William405 Jul 25 2015, 02:01 PM

He's doing good...maybe Mihajlovic sees something in him.

Posted by: maldini03 Jul 25 2015, 02:24 PM

Mexes scores an incredible goal, Milan up 1-0.

Posted by: acid911 Jul 25 2015, 02:32 PM

Someone please write up a contract, quick!

Posted by: han2503 Jul 25 2015, 02:37 PM

Already has a new one

Posted by: han2503 Jul 25 2015, 02:47 PM

Nocerino really stinking up the place...

Posted by: han2503 Jul 25 2015, 02:48 PM

Now gets sent off

Posted by: han2503 Jul 25 2015, 02:49 PM

What an idiot. Took out both the Inter player and Monto with a 2 footed challenge from behind

Posted by: William405 Jul 25 2015, 02:54 PM

Yeah, he's been terrible..stupid passes all around.

Posted by: maldini03 Jul 25 2015, 02:56 PM

Yeah Nocerino has truly regressed, he didn't complete one pass then gets sent off. If he wasn't before he should now definitely be on Han's out list.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 25 2015, 02:56 PM

Really can't wait to see the back of him and Matri for good. Hopefully both are out this summer

Posted by: acid911 Jul 25 2015, 03:00 PM

He has? Didn't know. Any specifics, o wise one? Duration, wages, and all that good stuff?


Aye, channeled Flamini with this move. Good thing we got rid of him, but we really should make it a point for players not to dive in two footed. The risk of injuries and red cards really amplifies with challenges like these. Actually the coach should drive home this point, stay away from these wild and messy moves.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 25 2015, 03:23 PM

1 year for 1.5m

Well all the players were getting stuck in, even though it was a friendly. But still that doesn't excuse his stupidity

Posted by: han2503 Jul 25 2015, 03:24 PM

Posted by: acid911 Jul 25 2015, 03:29 PM

Works, I guess.


Agreed. More so when considering this was the chance for him to prove his worth to the coach ahead of the new season. Right now he looks so far away from the player that he was when we last won the league.

Posted by: acid911 Jul 25 2015, 03:31 PM

Holy moly, that's a 37.15 MB GIF image right there, Han. Nice share, though.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 25 2015, 03:35 PM

Just found it while browsing around. Didn't want to go through the hassle of making it smaller or finding one that is.

The goal deserves it though

Posted by: han2503 Jul 25 2015, 03:36 PM

Btw, who hit the corner? Is that Bona or Monto?

And anyone thinks that he didn't mean to hit the ball that way?

Posted by: acid911 Jul 25 2015, 04:03 PM

Indeed it does.

Posted by: Danny Jul 25 2015, 09:52 PM

Mexes grew on me a lot after this goal!

Absolutely astounding strike, even better than the corker v Anderlecht.

Zapata, miscontrol aside, also looked pretty good - I feel like, Romagnoli acquisition aside, those two might be viewed as Mihajlovic's pairing to start the season. Don't ask me why, I just have a suspicion. It's not exactly Maldini and Nesta but it's acceptable.

If it works as well this season as it did two seasons ago, it's not the worst outcome.

Posted by: acid911 Jul 25 2015, 11:08 PM

He's a talent, Danny, and I always have more space in my heart for players like him. Yes, he has problems, lots of it, and I'll be the first to admit that. But when it comes to defenders, we certainly could do a lot worse than him. Nowhere near my favorite players, however, I see value in him.

Glad that he is staying for another year, would be absolutely tremendous if we win the league this season. Mexès is yet to win Serie A, and well, for someone that gives his all, that's the least he deserves for all these years.

Posted by: acid911 Jul 25 2015, 11:10 PM

PS. He's 33. Could theoretically be fit for a couple more campaigns.

Posted by: Danny Jul 26 2015, 12:53 AM

Han misunderstands my opinion on him a lot, I think a lot of people do.

I never felt he was a bad defender, but he is what I'd call a good one who can put in very good displays every so often and then lets himself down with moments of lunacy. If he was as good as some people rate him he would have had a much better international career than he has and would have done better than a merely decent Roma for the majority of his career. I think Alex is a better defender overall though, but he gets injured too much.

As for doing worse than him, we only have four viable CBs right now - Mexes, Alex, Zapata and Paletta. It's weak, very weak.

PS absolutely zero chance of us being in UCL position never mind winning Scudetto.

Posted by: William405 Jul 26 2015, 05:23 AM

I think we all agree with that. Despite what you stated, he's still our best CB.(sadly, of course)

Posted by: han2503 Jul 26 2015, 01:50 PM

Better than the Anderlecht goal? Not so sure, I mean that one was just incredible, the level of skill that took imo exceeds this one.

I think Mexes/Alex and Romagnoli is what Mihajlovic is looking at for the season. Yeah, maybe Zapata would be first choice next to one of them if the Romagnoli deal doesn't go through (I think it will).

As for our defence, I think I've said this about a million times, but I'll repeat once again. For Serie A and the level of opposition we face each week barring Juve and maybe Roma (not even them as we handled them pretty well last season in both games), we have a group of CBs that are good enough and shouldn't be allowing in the amount of goals that we did in these last 3 years, especially last season which was atrocious.

It might not be a great defence but it should be enough. Once we get back into the CL we hve to make some serious changes, but for now we're imo okay with the guys we have plus maybe adding Romagnoli.

I also want to remind you guys that Mexes and Zapata when they had a good run of games next to each other for the second half of the season 2 years ago produced numbers that were better than Juve's and had one of the best clean sheets record as a duo in the league.

Mexes might have a lot of flaws that have ruined his chances of ever being considered a World Class player, but he's a very good defender, and a leader at the back as well who always gives his all. that's why I've always supported him and wanted him to be a starter. Simply because he is the best we have in that position, flaws and all.


Isn't this what I've always described Mexes with? You usually disagree though and do make it seem like he's a bad defender. If it were up to you, he wouldn't even be considered for the starting 11. Even though he is our best defender, and overall one of our best and most skilful players (not even exaggerating on this. He could probably step into our midfield and do a better job than most of our mids)

Mexes back in the day was one of the most coveted young defenders in Serie A. Him and Chivu were the names to have back then and Roma wanted big money for them (which is why we waited until we could get him for free and offered him the ridiculous wages that we did).

As for our squad as is, no. It's not good enough for a CL spot.

Add Romagnoli and a new mid and we could be in with a shot for 3rd place.

Add Ibra as well and we're a sure thing for 2nd place imo. Maybe give Juve a bit of a run around as well if they have a bit of trouble adjusting to all their changes

Posted by: Danny Jul 26 2015, 03:31 PM

Alex is our best defender in my view. I stand by that. But his injury issues are to him what Mexes' liability & temperament are to him.

Their respective achilles heels.

Neither can be relied on long-term. This leaves our defence simply threadbare.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 26 2015, 03:45 PM

I think based on pure skill alone Mexes is better than Alex.

Alex has some better physical qualities. But if it came down to choosing one between the 2, I'd go for Mexes.

Anyway, we'll see how Alex fairs this season in terms of injuries. Was he this injuy prone at PSG? Or is this something that developed under our stellar medical staff and Pippo's elite training regime?

Posted by: milanbuf88 Jul 26 2015, 04:51 PM

Alex is much more disciplined than Mexes which tips the scales in his favor. They are very close overall though.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 26 2015, 05:48 PM

In terms od temperament?

Sure.

But as a defender Mexes is better, not by much but better. In terms of positioning, awareness, challenges, I'd pick Mexes. Alex is probably better in the air

Posted by: Danny Jul 26 2015, 11:09 PM

Alex is far better for challenges IMO. He is braver and willing to get hurt in a way I can only compare John Terry with. Mexes is better positionally, but not by a huge amount. I'd say he reads the game slightly better.

Alex is, when on form, aerially among the best defenders I've actually seen play for Milan - including the greats. He doesn't compare in other ways but in the air he's collosal. A titan.

Mexes offers more as an attacking threat and probably does a better job of organising the defence. He's a better leader.

My preference is Alex as I don't fear him getting himself sent off. And I just like him more. Sue me

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 27 2015, 10:25 AM

Agreed.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 27 2015, 03:54 PM

Well we're all entitled to our own preferences. I agree with your assessment about each player's attributes Danny. And they're probably why I still prefer Mexes overall as both a defender and player.

Agreed about the red card risk though. Hopefully we finally get to see more maturity from Mexes this season after that fiasco last season against Lazio

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 27 2015, 05:15 PM

Mihajlovic said he demands a change of attitude from Mexes, so I expect him to oblige.

Posted by: milanbuf88 Jul 27 2015, 05:15 PM

I disagree with your assessment that Mexes is better positionally. Mexes can get caught out, in part because of his bravery and courage in the tackle. Again I don't think there is much distance between him and Alex but I think Alex is bit more reliable which I value highly in a CB.

Posted by: William405 Jul 30 2015, 08:28 AM

Game with Real Madrid is today, 8am EDT 20 CEST

3pm for me

Posted by: Ry4n Jul 30 2015, 10:22 AM

prepare the lube

hope we can beat them again i was present at the winters rumble when we beat them they prolly want a bit of revenge for that...hope we can win !

Posted by: Danny Jul 30 2015, 11:05 AM

I'll be watching.

Team is supposedly:

Lopez, MDS, Alex, Ely, Antonelli, De Jong, Bertolacci, Poli, Suso, Niang, Cerci

Dunno why Miha's insisted on this XI for most pre-season matches. It's a weird one.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 30 2015, 12:30 PM

Maybe because that's how he'll determine who's to go and who's to stay?

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 30 2015, 01:32 PM

Niang and Cerci are as useless as ever. Suso has been disappointing as well.

Posted by: William405 Jul 30 2015, 01:32 PM

I don't understand why we were so pushing to get Bertolacci..he's been nothing short of terrible!

I love Ely. Honestly, I think he has quite some potential!

Posted by: William405 Jul 30 2015, 01:42 PM

Nice dribble from Niang! Almost got himself injured by Pepe there!

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 30 2015, 02:34 PM

Montolivo is vomit-inducing. What a sh*t player. The new Muntari.

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 30 2015, 02:52 PM

Terrible second half. Adriano and Bacca are completely isolated upfront, Honda and Montolivo are beyond sh*t, and Mauri has been AWOL.

Posted by: William405 Jul 30 2015, 03:20 PM

Yep..we were much better in that first half!

Posted by: William405 Jul 30 2015, 03:20 PM

He was..yes exactly that.

Posted by: Danny Jul 30 2015, 03:31 PM

Monto's been a waste of time for over two seasons now.

However there were a lot of positives in that match for me.

Defence was tight and well organised in the first half; every single player looked good. Even MDS looked neat and composed.

Midfield worked hard and we did well tactically to shut off Modric especially. Madrid basically had no midfield and relied on counters. None of which did anything because our defence snuffed everything out.

Attack was ok - Cerci did absolutely nothing, but came deeper in a weird link role. Suso was shite, but Niang was great. He showed no fear and caused real danger.

Second half it did fade a bit - Bacca was wasteful with one good chance and brought out a brilliant save with a half chance. Adriano had no impact. Real stepped it up and did force Lopez into one easyish save but truthfully they weren't great even after the interval.

Mexes was destroyed by Isco in one move but didn't have much else to do, while one cross was well cleared by Zapata saving a sure goal.

In the end it was a good workout - Miha showed tactical awareness, we looked more organised, and the team unit is clicking into life. It just needs a touch of quality overall and that's hopefully what we'll get if Ibra and Witsel join.

I'm pretty pleased that over 180 minutes of the 'way better and signing much better stuff than our shite in this window' that are the colossal Inter and Real, we conceded no goals and scored one.

But don't forget, we're cr*p and it's only friendlies. And Real started with p*sh like Ronaldo, Modric, Bale and Benzema. While we started with our first team like Ely, Poli, Niang...

Posted by: han2503 Jul 30 2015, 04:16 PM

Don't be petty Danny, Inter played their Primavera against us and we still could barely create anything against them. We scored off a wonder goal from Mexes, again, still relying on the individual rather than team play. Same problems we had these past few seasons are still there.

Haven't watched today's game but based on the in-game comments on both this board and another one I've read, the midfield is still a very problematic area that in turn creates problems for both attacking and defending departments.

Posted by: Danny Jul 30 2015, 09:19 PM

Watch it then.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 31 2015, 08:43 AM

I shall.

But please, don't bring up the Inter game as a valid argument as to why we're doing so great. We played their Primavera, and tbh they were far more impressive than us as they not only held on against a lot of pressure in the first half but really came at us in the second and looked very decent. All while playing with a majority of youth kids in the line-up.

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 31 2015, 04:06 PM

We're playing Bayern for the Audi Cup on the 4th of August. The next day we'll be playing one between Real and Tottenham. On the 12th we'll play the TIM Cup with Inter and Sassuolo. Then on the 15th we have the Coppa Italia preliminary.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 31 2015, 04:46 PM

I hope we see a clear indication of what Miha has planned for this season in the August friendlies.

Also, why are we playing Coppa preliminaries? Because we came in 10th last season? I can't recall us playing them, at least not in recent past.



Currently watching the Real game (2nd half about to start), and while Danny I do agree with your assessment with regards to our defence, there are still very obvious issues in midfield and attack.

There has been a very noticeable improvement in how we defend. And this imo justifies my argument about our defending problems being tactical rather than personnel related. Watching this, I'm even more positive that our defence should in theory be okay for next season, even as is. Which makes the 25m we could potentially spend on Romagnoli even more baffling.

And while I also think that our midfield has very much improved in terms of the defending aspect. They're working hard/pressing to win the ball early thus limiting the pressure put on our defence and dropping back as a unit with our defenders when the opposition advance on us to help out and win the ball back quickly or clear it away.

It's very obvious that the attacking side of our midfield game is still very much as lacking as it was last season. There's still very little link-up, still very little cutting edge that makes it hard for us to not only create chances but to even get our strikers involved. Most of Niang's opportunities came about because he pushed his way through on his own or shot from distance, and this limitation in our play was even ore evident when 2 pure CFs came on instead of the more versatile Cerci/Niang duo.

Either a regista or a proper creative midfielder is desperately needed in our midfield. Witsel (if he even comes) will gives more dynamism, but we still need a proper creator in there who will help to build up play, control the tempo of our game and give us more cutting edge when it comes to passing in tight spaces to put our strikers though. I've noticed Bacca's movement in these last 2 games. He's really smart in that respect and constantly tries to move into space. If he has someone who can see those runs and feed him those passes he'll be incredible for us. Ibra can do that, but I feel like we're pinning all our hope on him and he could just as easily not come and then we'll be seriously caught in a terrible situation

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 31 2015, 06:46 PM

A couple of players will definitely come. Hopefully they're quality.

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 31 2015, 06:49 PM

I wish we hadn't spent those 20 million on Bertolacci, and instead added 10 more and signed Witsel right away.

Bertolacci didn't impress me at all yesterday. He didn't do anything remarkable or to take not of.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 31 2015, 07:46 PM

Agreed, so far he's done nothing to dither my opinion of him that he's another Bonaventura. An in-betweener who's a good player but nothing special. Reliable but won't really make a huge difference to our overall gameplay

Posted by: Danny Jul 31 2015, 10:10 PM

From what I've seen of him he's a Makelele type. Clean, simple passes, reliable in possession and the kind of midfielder who's always available. He's a deeper version of Bona but more efficient. And clearly that fits Miha's vision for the team so I'm happy to go with it.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 1 2015, 08:31 AM

Wasn't Makelele a pure anchor DM?

I see nothing that indicates Bertolacci is anywhere near that type of player.

I think he's mostly a 2-way player. He's good on both sides of the ball, just like Bonaventura, but still, the problem is that he doesn't really add all that much to our midfield. Had we spent what he was actually worth, I'd say he'd have been a smart purchase that gives us added depth in our midfield and more quality than Muntari or Essien ever did. But we spent 20m on him, and for that kind of money I'd expect more from a player

Makelele was one of the best in his positions and few did it better than him. Bertolacci is a regular run of the mill midfielder

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 1 2015, 10:42 AM

De Jong is much more similar to Makelele.

Posted by: Danny Aug 1 2015, 10:44 AM

Actually I'd argue if he's another Bonaventura it's exactly what our midfield needs, aside a creative spark. Monto's absolute rot, De Jong's a destroyer, but we don't have a clean and efficient space player who can be relied on for neatness and tidiness.

But Bona has massive limitations and I don't see those with Berto.

As for 'that kind of money' - you forget the bit about young players costing way more than they once did.

I mean this with respect but you seem to be stuck in 2005 where players costing 20M were basically world class. That doesn't happen now.

An ordinary player of quality costs that, and world class is now 50M upwards.

This is a big issue - we're now dabbling in the transfer market seriously for the first time in what feels like years, but some fans haven't adjusted to, effectively, inflation. What once would cost us 5M now costs four times that.

And it makes you think we're signing rubbish at over inflated prices, when the truth is a decent quality player costs a ludicrous amount.

What I am saying is stop using the 'value for money' card - it doesn't exist for players under about 25. You pay over the odds and that's the only way to get the players you want.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 1 2015, 11:40 AM

For 25m Barca bought Rakitic and Real bought Kroos.

I'm not saying we could get that kind of quality player in because Barca and Real are what they are and we cannot compete with that, but you can make smarter purchases with that kind of money

And sorry, but inflation or not, at best Bertolacci is worth 10 to 13m, because even in today's market that's what he's worth because he can't even be considered a great player, let alone top quality.

You're seriously overestimating Berto's qualities. When I say he's Bonaventura level, I don't just mean in terms of the type of player he is, but also quality level. And seriously, how can you make an assessment on Bona's shortcomings vs, Bertolacci's when we've only really seen him play for 90 minutes over 2 friendly games? He was decent vs Inter and very quiet vs Real.

Actually based on those 2 games, I can easily make a case that he is an average to good player, but they're not enough to make an assessment either way. We're not saying he's not good, but so far he hasn't shown us anything to make us think differently than we did when we signed him. Who knows, he could turn into the next Marchisio, but so far nothing indicates that, and as of right now, 20m is just too much for him

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 1 2015, 11:46 AM

I agree with Han. If Bonaventura cost us €6 million, Bertolacci is worth €12 million, max. Roma completely played us for fools and we fell for it. And looks like we're being played again with Romagnoli.

Also, no wonder Zenit are asking €35 million for Witsel, when they think these guys (us) paid €20 million for a nobody like Bertolacci.

Galliani just loves digging his own grave.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 1 2015, 11:47 AM

Yep

Same thing with paying out the 8m for Adriano

Posted by: Danny Aug 1 2015, 12:59 PM

Napoli offered 28M for Romagnoli. It was rejected.

Guess we're not the only fools then?

Posted by: Danny Aug 1 2015, 01:01 PM

Berto has an equivalent career to Kondogbia, including number of caps.

Yet you're ready to regale Geoff as the next Makelele while discarding Berto as a piece of filth even though the latter outplayed the former in the ICC.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 1 2015, 01:16 PM

Yep, apparently we're not.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 1 2015, 01:17 PM

Italy's options in midfield are threadbare at best, France on the other hand have an abundance of riches. Pogba will always come in ahead of him there anyway.

I never regaled Kondogbia as anything just that he's a very good player with high potential to be a great one in the future. And certainly one who has a higher threshold than Bertolacci.

And OMG, please stop mentioning the ICC game as a basis for this argument. It was 2 friendly games that had no meaning, Bertolacci was far from great in either appearance. I'm not basing my opinion of him on that as it's simply not enough. I'm prepared to give him a chance but so far he's shown that he's not the type of player we were really desperate for, which was a creator. However, this in no way means that I think he's rubbish, just not what we really needed

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Aug 1 2015, 01:46 PM

I'm baffled. Can you please explain how such a figure is reached? Or is it based on your assumptions?

Posted by: Danny Aug 1 2015, 01:58 PM

France...have an embarrassment of riches?! Anywhere?!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Too deadpan, please, no more, my sides can't take it

Wait. You're being serious?



Then OMG stop rolling your eyes



Were we dismissing last year's ICC too? Yes, I think you said the same thing then. 3-0 to Olympiakos, 5-1 to City and 2-0 to Liverpool.

Sure friendlies have no meaning?

Posted by: han2503 Aug 1 2015, 01:58 PM

The 10 to 13m?

Um based on the fact that he only had one decent season at Genoa, and is just a decent player who won't make a huge impact on our midfield?

Strootman was bought for 15m, Vidal for 19m, Pjanic for 10m, Hernanes for 21m, Kovacic for 10m.

All these happened just 2 or 3 years ago, not a decade like Danny said where I was still stuck in. And they're all better than Bertolacci, by a good distance!

Posted by: Danny Aug 1 2015, 01:58 PM

I swear if he goes onto become an Italy legend and we didn't sign him I'll be pointing the finger angrily at those whining about the price.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 1 2015, 02:06 PM

Pogba, Matuidi, Cabaye, Gonolans, Kondogbia, Valbuena

vs Italy's Veratti, Marchisio, Parolo, Bertolacci, Soriano, Bonaventura


Yeah... I can see how competition for places is exactly the same...


Can't


We also won the TIM trophy and won against Juve in some other friendly in August...

I think they're all ultimately warm up games, and when you're playing against the opposing club's Primavera you can't really make a proper assessment

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 1 2015, 03:36 PM

You forgot Florenzi, Candreva and De Rossi. I really don't think France have a better midfield.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 1 2015, 03:53 PM

Candreva is usually used in the attack, but that's not saying much, I think he's an average player at best. Looks good with Lazio but usually bad for Italy

Yeah, forgot Florenzi because he wasn't picked in the last few games, De Rossi either (has he been injured?)

Also think De Rossi has majorly regressed in these last few years or so.

Pogba, Matuidi, Cabaye vs De Rossi, Verratti, Marchisio

Picking the best trio of both lots

Both have obvious weaknesses and both have a young ultra talented player. Still think the France on is better overall. I think Pogba is simply ahead of Verratti atm and Matuidi is simply ahead of the De Rossi of today

And this coming from a major Azzurri fan, but even I have to admit that the quality of the nazionale has plummeted in recent years

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 1 2015, 06:40 PM

I disagree. I think Italy's trio you put is better.

Posted by: milanbuf88 Aug 1 2015, 11:57 PM

Valbuena is as much a midfielder as Insigne haha. I think Italy most definitely has the edge in midfield, especially when it comes to depth. If you consider Pirlo a part of that group as well, at least through all of the most recent big tournaments, the Italian case is even stronger. That's before we get into the shortcomings of Kondogbia's rivals like Cabaye who has been poor since leaving Newcastle.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 2 2015, 07:11 AM

So now you discard the players you forgot to mention? Han, I really think you're wrong on this one. France might have in Pogba what Italy lacks of, but if you look at the options and selection overall, Italy has the edge. It's just that you know these players in and out, while the French look to you better because you're not so familiar with them. Or do you think only Candreva and DDR have been sleepwalkers for some time now, while Cabaye and Gonalons only do marvelous things?

Posted by: han2503 Aug 2 2015, 10:28 AM

You might be right there about the French. I know the Italian players much better and I watch Serie A regularly and every Azzurri game that's played, whether that's a qualifier or just a friendly. So that might construe how I view things given how utterly sh!t they've been playing for a while now

Marchisio and Verratti are awesome players, no doubt about that. But De Rossi just hasn't been anywhere near as good as he was a few years ago. Still I think the French NT has more quality when you look at the entire midfield as a whole and not just the most likely starting trio. I mean once you remove Verratti from Italy's mid, it looks very average. You could do the same with France and remove Pogba and I don't think the drop would be as severe.

And Candreva? What can one say about him? The most one dimensional player I've ever seen, Cerci has even more natural talent than this guy. I admit tha for Lazio he looks good, but for Italy, he's always really average and doesn't add much of anything to their game.

Also, if we're going to count Candreva, then we might as well count Greizman, Ribery and Fekir who all can be listed as mids being that they are wingers/AMs but they all play in attack.

@milanbuf, I don't think Pirlo will be involved much from here on out. He's not playing in Italy anymore which already effects Conte's decision making. He hasn't officially retired but I think he's gone to the US to relax and still get to play these last few years. He certainly won't be involved in the next Euros.

Posted by: milanbuf88 Aug 2 2015, 03:09 PM

Yes, I know. My point was that he has been an integral part of the Azzuri midfield up until very recently and as a result his presence has had a direct effect on the number of midfield places in the squad. This in turn effects the number of caps Bertolacci has earned to this point.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 2 2015, 04:29 PM

I really don't think Pirlo effected Bertolacci's place in the NT squad. It's just that he's only just last season had his break out where he got noticed. Also there have been plenty of other Italian mids taking up spots who are far from great, like Parolo for example, Aquilani, Diamanti etc. So Pirlo being there or not doesn't change the fact that up until last season he wasn't putting in the performances that made either Conte or Prandelli before him pick Bertolacci over those less than stellar names

Posted by: milanbuf88 Aug 2 2015, 04:38 PM

It's simply a matter of numbers. Pirlo was an automatic selection. That leaves one less midfield squad place. The fact that there are a number of decent but not great Italian midfielders in his way further strengthens the point that he's had more competition to deal with. Yes, he should be able to outshine the aforementioned players but he's young, wasn't on the biggest stage in Genoa, and all of those players have better name recognition and previous relationships with the NT coaching staff. Now that he's on a bigger stage at Milan it's up to him to make an impact and make sure Conte can't justify leaving him off the squad.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 2 2015, 05:57 PM

First off, he can no longer be considered a young player by footballing standards. He's 24, which means that by this time you're either established or you're not. All of the really good players for the Azzurri who've had long careers with the NT were already established NT players by then. Sure there are cases for late bloomers but it's not like Bertolacci has been fighting for a spot in the NT for a while now.

Also, every country has a good amount of mid-level range players like the ones I mentioned. So that's not really a good excuse for Bertolacci not getting in yet, vs why Kondogbia hasn't. France has guys like Rabiot for example who is a good player but isn't even considered for the NT

Also important to note that Kondogbia is younger.

Posted by: milanbuf88 Aug 2 2015, 06:26 PM

I don't buy that first statement at all. There are plenty of players that establish themselves at the national level past age 24. Especially for a nation like Italy. You're moving the goal post. Where does the requirement he have a long NT career come into this? It's not unusual for a player to make a jump in quality or form in his early twenties. If he doesn't make the Euro or World Cup rosters then we'll know he's not living up to expectations. Until then you can't really argue that he's not part of the national team set up.

Maybe its just because I'm more knowledgeable on Italian players from watching Serie A but I definitely think that there are more of those midrange, decent but not great, and often flawed but still useful types of midfielders available for selection for Italy than France. That simply leaves more bodies for Bertolacci to compete with and he has to play to a higher level for attention. Perhaps some one else who watches more Ligue 1 can weigh in on that point.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 2 2015, 07:08 PM

He's 24 and has 2 caps for Italy, how can you argue that he is part of the set-up? I agree that it's all conjecture on our part, he could have a great season with us and be an automatic choice for Conte, but until now he simply hasn't been able to do that, even if there are a slew of average players in Italy to compete against for the other spots.

Toulalan, Cabella, Gourcuff, Mavuba, N'Zonzi, Grenier, Imbula, Sissoko, Coquelin, Flamini, Rabiot, Schneiderlin are all imo viable options that come in after those first choices. These are all off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more but since like you I'm not that familiar with Ligue 1 I can't name anymore

Maybe not all of them play the same role as Kondogbia, but they could just as easily take his place.

Posted by: milanbuf88 Aug 2 2015, 08:29 PM

He's had three caps actually. In Italy's last 5 games he started three and was on the bench once. If we only look at the six euro qualifiers played so far he has started one and was on the bench twice. It is worth noting that his involvement was weighted toward the recent games and since he has been getting more time Aquilani hasn't even gotten to the bench. He's clearly in the set up now but he's not a critical component and he needs to impress over the next year to guarantee a spot on the final squad.

I'll concede that it looks like the midfields are fairly even talent wise but by no means does France have an embarrassment of riches and they aren't clearly superior to Italy in that department.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 3 2015, 09:51 PM

This is gone too far. You guys noticed how arbitrary your statements are?

Han, you made a selection of all kinds of players, from completely finished to completely green/not assessed ones. Comparing France and Italy is valid. The WC aside, Italy is doing considerably better in the past 10 years then France. I think up until now Italy had a better overall team and a better midfield.

Now, what will happen in the future is not so certain, because both sides have too many fresh faces that still need to be assessed properly. We really should cool off and let time take us into a certain direction here.

Other then that, football is no science. Han, you're constantly trying to take variables, trends, common occurrences and so on and turn them into hard facts. But it isn't working that way. Sure, it can give you a positive insight. But you tend to hold onto it like it's the one and only direction.

Take what you said about 24 being a margin for established NT players for example. You said all good players, but you forgot the best: Andrea Pirlo, started being a first XI pick in 2004 or 2005, with about 25 years of age.

So, let's wait and see, I think it's the best direction we can take.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 3 2015, 09:56 PM

Btw when do we play Bayern?

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 3 2015, 11:42 PM

Well said.



Tomorrow, i.e. 4 August.

Posted by: Danny Aug 4 2015, 12:12 AM

7:45UK I believe

Posted by: William405 Aug 4 2015, 04:22 PM

Yeah..just the normal night time CL games. It's 9:45 for me usually.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 4 2015, 06:19 PM

How does my opinion of players' quality have much to do with trends, variables, etc, etc?

It is my opinion that it is harder for Kondogbia to break into the French NT first 11 than it is for Bertolacci. Why? Because Pogba is the guy standing in his way. That's not a trend or a prediction, it is a fact.

I also said that there are exceptions when it comes to when players break through a NT set-up. Pirlo's case is very unique as well as before Carlo really found him the position he's now known for he was struggling at Inter

Like I said before, this is all conjecture never denied that. But seriously, do you see anywhere near that talent in Bertolacci?

Posted by: han2503 Aug 4 2015, 06:39 PM

Anyway, back on topic.

Line-up for the Bayern game

(4-3-1-2): Lopez; De Sciglio, Zapata, Ely, Antonelli; Bonaventura, De Jong, Bertolacci; Honda; Bacca, Adriano.

Have to say that looks pretty good

Also, interesting to see Miha using Berto so much in these friendlies

Personally can't see him starting him in Serie A, but I get the impression that he's studying him seriously and is using all these friendlies to do just that

Posted by: William405 Aug 4 2015, 08:23 PM

****, forgot about it!

Posted by: han2503 Aug 4 2015, 08:23 PM

This is what I have been talking about all summer. Not having someone in the midfield who can keep a cool head, calm things down and help the rest by helping to keep possession for longer than a few seconds.

The players already looking wiped out from chasing shadows throughout this half. And when we do get the ball we can't make a string of 3 successful passes because we have no outlet in our mid

Posted by: han2503 Aug 4 2015, 08:31 PM

Lol, Zapata... Never learns

Posted by: Ry4n Aug 4 2015, 08:35 PM

wow what a direr game...do we have a midfield

lump it forward to our small guys in attack rinse reverse...

pass between the defence back to goalkeper lump it foward...

At 30 minutes if i had'nt seen the lines up i would not have known bertolacci was even on the pitch like Marchiso for Juve he turns up and goes missing..

Posted by: Ry4n Aug 4 2015, 08:38 PM

In his defence he has no one to pass to at all for how ever hard our midfield is working they just can't get three or four passes together..

Posted by: Ry4n Aug 4 2015, 08:39 PM

This being all said the Bundesliga does start in 10 days time but meh we should be in there frame of mind and playing as well at this point..

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 4 2015, 08:43 PM

Well, this is very worrisome. Milan look exactly like the team last season. Zero initiative, zero adaptability, no tactical plan, no offensive.

What's there to say. I knew from moment one Inzaghi wasn't our only problem. Dare I say he wasn't our main problem. And Mihajlovic most probably isn't our solution, but I'll give him time.

But seriously, we need to get rid of some awful players here and replace them with more capable ones. Bonaventura, Montolivo and Honda are all mediocre or sub-par level players we don't need all together. One of them is enough. I'm starting to fear that Bertolacci will soon be in the same group.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 4 2015, 09:16 PM

If you're in a situation like that just lump it forward! Don't just run straight into a cul de sac like an idiot or try some elaborate fancy pass that will get you into an even sh!ttier situation than the one you were in!


This game has heavily underlined what our biggest issue is imo. No creative quality in midfield. The players you listed imo are all Jack of all Trades type players. Decently good at many things but not great at one, the only player who is in our midfield is De Jong. This is what I've meant about Bertolacci, I beleive he's a fairly good player, but certainly not what we desperately have needed. And that's why I'm so highly critical of the fee we paid

Also, I disagree about Pippo, he was absolutely terrible, probably one of the most clueless coaches that I have watched in my football watching lifetime. I think there are obvious improvements that Miha has made, and this coming from someone who has been very critical of his appointment

One other major thing, I'm makibg a point about our midfield with this game, but we also have to note that this is Bayern, who are not only miles ahead of us quality wise but are also ahead of us in their pre-season prep. We're not going to be facing anyone near their level in the league not even Juve. So even though it's a game where our biggest weakness (midfield) is hughlighted and it's important to not ignore this huge shortcoming in our squad, most Serie A side won't push us to the extreme that Bayern are

Posted by: Ry4n Aug 4 2015, 09:24 PM

true that!

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 4 2015, 09:40 PM

What obvious improvement did you notice? I see the same mentality, the same concept-less team, the same lack of idea.

Yes, Pippo wasn't the right man, sure. But thing is, I see squat of improvement here. Did we even make a single shot on goal? Did we have a single correct flow of attack? Naah man, I know this is Bayern here (even if they played maybe 50% of their potential) but anyway, I don't see a step forward here.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 4 2015, 09:40 PM

And Alex demonstrates this footballing basic for Bayern's third

Posted by: Danny Aug 4 2015, 09:46 PM

You've been preaching that from day one, but I still disagree.

This game tonight was a passionless couldn't give a rat's *ss Milan with no system, no tactic, and the worrying inability to string more than 3 passes together anywhere on the pitch.

The defence was pathetic - I have no idea why two beta defenders started rather than an alpha and a beta together, and sure, Zaps' passing was painful, but he was our best player overall and actually stopped about 3 goals. Ely was non-existent as a partner and I just cannot fathom Miha's thinking in selecting that pair.

The midfield could have been dummies they moved so little, and the forwards couldn't link with each other at all. As in couldn't find each other with a single pass.

This was actually worse than anything I ever saw under Pippo - the absence of a single redeeming feature was truly pitiful - I take nothing from that match to work with. It was worse than all last summer ICC matches because we basically didn't touch the ball the whole night. Even though City and Olympiakos routed us, we managed more possession than we did tonight. It literally must have been 75/25.

To go from a very solid display v Real to that absolute shite is really worrying. Miha's bad-tempered volley was also concerning - were the players just not doing it for him? Were they failing to understand his instructions? Was he annoyed at their poor displays?

Friendly it may be, but that was deeply troubling. Yes, it was Bayern who are absolutely brilliant, but we just looked something below pathetic.

How can we go forward v Real then backwards like that?

Posted by: Ry4n Aug 4 2015, 09:52 PM

switched it off when they scored the 2nd , its so one sided i don't even want to know how many shots on target we had.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 4 2015, 10:00 PM

I don't agree that they played at 50%, they were running their asses off, especially in that first half. The first thought I had after watching the first ten minutes is that they were taking this seriously. Certainly didn't look like they were treating it as a simple warm up. Even if they didn't play all their first 11 players, they still have a lot more quality than us. Whuch is the point here. Last season we looked this ragged in games against Samp and Genoa, two teams that pressed us and got a little physical with us, teams that are inferior to us not Bayern Munichs. I think given the serious limitatioms we have in midfield we did what we could againt a Bayern that played a high energy pressing game.

Of course we still have major shortcomings in our squad, that was the first post I made after the match started. We need a proper regista desperately in our midfield and also a proper AM.

I think the point abiut Pippo is that he was the biggest problem because he simply had no clue about any sort of tactical game plan, however now with Miha I personally think that it is very obvious that he has one and it shiws in the way we play. Sure at times we're going to face teams that are so far ahead of us quality wise that that is still going to be glaringly obvious no matter who's coaching us. But I think it's important that Miha is working so hard on installing a tactical ideology in the players and getting them to follow it. I personally think that's already a mojor step forward compared to what was going on under Pippo.

One other major improvent I've seen is in how we defend. Today I don't think that was as apparent because Bona and Berto looked completely lost, but against Real and Inter we really defended well, and not just with the 4 defenders but the mids also made sure to help out and were doing a very good job at defending with the guys at the back as a whole unit. Also the defending on set pieces is a million times better compared to what it has neen for the last 4 or 5 years

Posted by: Ry4n Aug 4 2015, 10:05 PM

so apperently this happened

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3185403/Pep-Guardiola-Nigel-Jong-row-Bayern-Munich-s-Audi-Cup-win-AC-Milan-tempers-flare-half-tackle.html

Posted by: han2503 Aug 4 2015, 10:08 PM

All your point about our link up, possession and passing have all to do with not having a proper creative outlet in midfield imo

Also I think it is easy to understand how we can go from the Real game to the Bayern one. Bayern were a lot more agressive, and while Real probably had even more top quality players against us on the pitch they were playing a slow paced game which we were confortable with, they weren't pressing us like Bayern were, so our limited players in midfield had more time on the ball to pick their passes, think, touch the bal 2 or 3 times before moving it. Today however they were pushed to think, react and act quicker, and they simply do not have the quality to do that

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 4 2015, 10:36 PM

It's wonderful that you're optimistic, maybe I'm wrong. But say, one more time, other then defending with midfielders as well, what improvement did you see?

Because today I saw the Milan I hope I'll never see again. The same old story, no idea, no intention of showing up or playing. With that posture, Bayern or Bayer or a Regionalliga team, Milan would have been defeated with no effort. I really don't see much progress and that makes me very pessimistic at the moment.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 4 2015, 10:40 PM

Are people really surprised that we played like crap? I'm not. This summer has been a complete let down so far. We started big, with huge ambitions and money to spend. Ancelotti, Kondogbia, Jackson, Ibra etc. All that ended up being a pipe dream. Our only good signing has been Bacca, who's really a poacher and won't produce anything in this team full of clueless dimwits. Luiz Adriano is average, and Bertolacci is proving to be just exactly what he is, i.e. another Bonaventura.

Unless we sign Romagonoli, Witsel and Ibra, I predict another 10th placement next season. Just changing coach ain't gonna improve jackshit if you don't strengthen the team with the adequate players.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 5 2015, 07:41 AM

Come on Filippo! I'm usually the pessimistic one!

On a serious note, I get what you're saying, but Bayern didn't really let us play at all. We just weren't in it, at all. And I don't agree that we could have played against any other team and the outcome would have been the same. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone close to Bayern's quality in the league, even Juve are no where near that, and no one in Serie plays that kind of high energy pressing game which we simply couldn't cope with.

Like I said, do I think that we still have some major shortcomings in our squad? Yes. Do I think that it's a major problem and is it worrying? Yes, of course. But do I think that it will be exposed to the level that it did against Bayern yesterday? No, not even anywhere close to that.

Just an example of this. I've been saying that I think personnel wise our defence is decent enough for Serie A. We're okay in the FB department for now because the competition in the league is what it is. I think that's it's okay for until we want to mount a serious title challenge/play CL football. But look at how Antonelli for example was getting creamed throughout the first half. The LB who has looked good in Serie A just couldn't cope with the Bayern players running at him. But this is what I mean when I say that we're not going to be facing Bayern each week in the league. And I think the tactical improvements Miha has and will implement over the nothing Pippo provided will already be a major step forward in how we perform in the league. At least this season I'm more confident that we will win against the team we should easily be winning against.

I think the game tonight against Spurs will be a better indicator. If we play anywhere close to like we did yesterday, then I think we can all start pressing the panic buttons

Posted by: Danny Aug 5 2015, 09:48 AM

A meaningless third place playoff v Spurs in a friendly?

Odd one to judge with. Especially as you refuse to judge against Inter in a match which had arguably infinitely more meaning.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 5 2015, 12:14 PM

Gazzetta has Zapata as MOM for us and Honda as flop.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 5 2015, 12:44 PM

I'm not saying it's enough to make a final judgement, and it is a meaningless game at the end of it, just like the Bayern, Real and Inter games also were.

Also, how many times can I say that we were playing the Inter Primavera in the ICC...

But if we struggle as much as we did yesterday against Spurs, then sure, we can start to worry a bit more, still ultimately a meaningless friendly as they've all been. But I'm expecting a reaction considering how Miha reacted during the match, even if it really ultimately means nothing to us


Did they actually watch? Zapata was pretty awful if you ask me. A couple of good blocks and tackles but the fact that he repeatedly puts himself and team mates under pressure due to some awful decision making is why I don't rate him.

De Jong was our MoM for me. Honda was bad, but I guess he caught the eye more because he was working hard to try to get on the ball (even if he failed every time he did get it). Bona and Bertolacci were worse imo as they MIA throughout their time on the pitch

Posted by: Danny Aug 5 2015, 12:55 PM

If I'm biased against Mexes but can at least credit him with good play, your bias against Zapata is actually blinding you and stopping you seeing what he's actually doing.

He was widely regarded as our best player last night, and not just by Gazzetta.

Posted by: Danny Aug 5 2015, 12:56 PM

He did nothing. Like everyone else spent more time giving away the ball and making some awful fouls than doing anything productive.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 5 2015, 01:11 PM

Don't get were you get my bias towards Zapata, as I said, I simply do not rate him because of his recklessness and stupid/questionable decision making which simply negates all the other good things he's capable of doing

I'm personally lenient about many things when I'm trying to give a player a chance, but being a liability is something I personally think is the end of my limits tbh. I can understand a player being limited and not being particularly good in one area or another. But being the guy who puts his team mates under pressure because of poor decision making in what is supposed to be elementary level basics of football is a major pet peeve for me. If he's not capable of playing out just keep things simple. No need to try and dribble through 3 or 4 players (like he actually did yesterday for some reason which I cannot understand), or try to make a more complicated pass forward when your CB partner is open right next to you.

Like I said, I think he had good moments, but his idiotic ones for me erase most of the good he does as just those instances could easily end up costing us a lot. Look at Alex yesterday, passing right into the opposing player. Bayern get possession back, Lewandowski gets it and bang, they score.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 5 2015, 01:13 PM

Diasgree, he was the only mid who actually showed up. Defenders all did the best they could, Bayern had loads of chances and those came at times because our back 4 was continually caught in no man's land.

Posted by: Danny Aug 5 2015, 01:21 PM

So you forgive Mexes for getting 400 red cards but you won't forgive Zaps for his 'moments'?

And I find it slightly odd that you won't forgive liabilities yet will forgive Mexes when he's one.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 5 2015, 02:09 PM

I don't think that Mexes even has 10 red cards during his entire Milan career so far. I know you're exaggerating to make a point, but there is a difference here. Zapata does this in almost each game he plays. Just because his blunder doesn't get punished so it is forgotten quickly, doesn't make this very big flaw in his game disappear. Yesterday his 2 mistakes weren't punished, so it's all sunshine and rainbows for you and maybe even to some journalists, but it isn't for me. Does that make me biased towards him? I don't think so, I just don't tolerate certain types of mistakes which I think pro players shouldn't even make on rare occasions let alone with the consistency that Zapata does.

Mexes is different, sure he loses his cool once or twice in a season. But his issues are simply not related to the way he plays. Do I get p!ssed off when he's sent off? Sure, and do I want him to eliminate that aspect from his game? Of course! But as a player Mexes is simply superior to Zapata in each way and this does counter the fact that he can be a loose canon at times.

There are many players who have the same problem as Mexes as well, even great ones (we experienced this most recently with Zlatan, Balo, heck even Menez has a red card in him considering all the diving and petulance, and others in the past as well like Rino with his temper and Ambro with his rash tackles).

My point is, it's not the same thing. Zapata could easily eliminate this major flaw from his game and he simply never learns

Posted by: Danny Aug 5 2015, 02:30 PM

So the fact that Zapata was MOTM yesterday for us doesn't counter the fact he made some passing errors, but Mexes' qualities DO counter his tendency to strangle opponents.

In other words, you look at Mexes' positives and use them to negate the negatives, and you look at Zaps' negatives and use them to negate the positives.

Simple.

Posted by: Danny Aug 5 2015, 02:31 PM

PS at least we've moved on from f*ckin' SES

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 5 2015, 02:54 PM

I think you're biased towards Zapata, Han. Sure, he's not reliable and I totally agree with you about that, but when he has a decent showing it's good to acknowledge it. Being unreliable doesn't make him automatically bad in every match. Now, I didn't watch last night's game, but if Zapata was as bad you make him out to be, then he wouldn't have been awarded MOM from anyone.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 5 2015, 04:32 PM

Well, Zapata was his usual if you ask me. Some good, some bad moments. But tipping him as MOM is too far for me. He scored and owngoal and also another owngoal that has been disallowed. He had numerous small good interceptions but his positioning was also off. All in all, no, he wasn't our best player. Neither was De Jong, that's for sure.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 5 2015, 04:34 PM

Hopefully.

I'm unable to watch the game myself, but I'll rely on what you guys see and comment. You speak of tactical improvements but again, I say - Milan should never ever play like we did under Allegri and Inzaghi. And last night it was the exact same Milan. The team that has no intention of attacking, no intention of playing or doing anything other then mindless defending and running around the pitch.

Posted by: acid911 Aug 5 2015, 04:49 PM

+∞

Posted by: han2503 Aug 5 2015, 06:07 PM

Being awarded MoM by a Gazzetta journalist doesn't make it so. It's an opinion of one person, just like it's mine that he wasn't

Like I said, there are some things that for me are a big pet peeve. And Zapata majorly ticks that box, just like Bonera and Muntari used to.

I'm not really as against Zapata as I was with those 2, I don't mind him playing all that much as long as he's next to either Mexes or Alex who can be a guide for him and his questionable positioning. And as you might remember I was 100% against either Muntari or Bonera ever starting. But, his issues are something that really annoys me, and for someone to commit the mistakes that he did, should never be given a MoM award.

I acknowledged first and foremost that he did have some good moments with tackles and interceptions. I like the fact that he's quick and can get back to make the challenge for example. I just don't agree that he's MoM, simply because his mistakes could have just as easily led to another 2 goals conceded for us

Also, you say I'm biased towards Mexes, but I explained why I don't feel his particular issues are the same here. I certainly don't think he's half the liability Zapata is that's for sure.


Scored another pretty great goal for Monaco in the CL qualifier


I can assure you I'm not, I won't repeat what I said to Danny here as well. I acknowledged that he did have good moments. But for me, when you make the kind of blunders he did yesterday you simply cannot be MoM

I never said that he was overall bad, but his moments of idiocy take a lot away from what are essentially decent to good performances, at least for me. If he has an overall good game but is the player who passed right to the opposition and cost us a goal everyone would label him the flop. Thing is, he has these moments in nearly each game, and when it doesn't get punished for most it's okay to sweep it under the rug, but for me it mares the overall performance as he's continually showing himself to be a goal hazard for us, who we simply cannot rely on


Agreed

De Jong for me was the only one who I could really make positive points about without all that much negative. That's why he's MoM for me, more by default.

If De Jong is a big no for you guys then the only guy left for me would be Lopez, who was great as usual and could do nothing about the goals

It actually always makes me laugh when I see Mexes or him passing out of defence, they both have more range than all our mids combined, which is actually pretty sad


I think there have been obvious tactical improvements and we showed these in the ICC. For me those games were both basically worthless considering we played Inter's Primavera and a barely interested Real. But it was interesting to see the movements of the players, and I do think that there is an obvious system that Miha is adapting.

Will it always work> Of course not, especially at such an early stage and while we still have very obvious issues in midfield.

Also, I don't think it had anything to do with intentions or lack-there-of. Bayern simply didn't let our players play. They didn't allow them time and space, and when you don't have smart, technical players in midfield and they get that type of high energy pressing, they simply lose the ball and don't know how to play out of tight situations, which is why we spent most of the game chasing shadows. It had nothing to do with intentions imo. Just facing an opponent who is miles ahead of us in terms of quality and also ahead of us in terms of fitness

Like I said, if we struggle to the same degree against Spurs as we did yesterday against Bayern, then that should be a more real cause for concern

Posted by: acid911 Aug 5 2015, 06:10 PM

Hey, me too! Can't stand mediocrity, when it's coupled with regular mistakes. And regular chances.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 5 2015, 06:13 PM

Good to know I'm not alone on this


Anyway, here's the line-up for the game vs Spurs

(4-3-1-2): Abbiati; Abate, Alex, Mexes, Calabria; Poli, Montolivo, Mauri; Suso; Matri, Cerci.


Looks... Interesting...

Posted by: acid911 Aug 5 2015, 06:34 PM

Aye, nothing to add (or subtract) from your post above, from me. In a perfect world, we'd have better defenders playing for us than what we have now. But having observed both Mexès and Zapata for years now in the league, I know who I would choose for us, and it will not be the one whose name begins with the letter Z.

Been burned far too many times with is misplaced passes, judgmental errors and basic defensive mistakes.

Posted by: Ry4n Aug 5 2015, 06:40 PM

Turned it off , can't watch any more of these pre season games...roll on the real games with meaning..

Btw what type of football does Siniša Mihajlović usually employ because from watching the last few games we have mainly been using the flanks , if not lobbing it forward and playing less on the floor.

would be useful to know what he played at his former clubs..plz anyone i want to know what we are in for , for the rest of the season.

Counter attacking ?

Posted by: Danny Aug 5 2015, 07:04 PM

New system

New signings

New captain

New manager

Same old Milan.

Sincerely hope we play better than this when the serious stuff starts otherwise this is absolutely no different a season in prospect to last.

Posted by: Ry4n Aug 5 2015, 07:18 PM

why do we play these tournaments against teams that are just about to star there season what a morale demoraliser.

Posted by: Ry4n Aug 5 2015, 07:28 PM

sad but true...and we have fiorentina to bed in with first game

Posted by: han2503 Aug 5 2015, 07:48 PM

Thought it was at 8:45...

Will have to catch the replay.

Posted by: Lawbaba Aug 5 2015, 08:44 PM

Goin by d pre-season soo far,all we have r bunch of crab....diz is an eye opener 4d management 2knw dat wit diz team,CL or EL is not achievable 4us.....we need a creative and talented midfielder n an established CB to start with.

Posted by: Danny Aug 5 2015, 08:45 PM

Prepare for a fantastic 90 minutes of flair and invention.

From Spurs' B team.

Posted by: William405 Aug 5 2015, 09:42 PM

Yeah me too.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 6 2015, 07:22 AM

Should I just not watch?


Seems like it was a good move on our part to forget this one

Btw, Monto was taken to hospital yesterday, I guess he got injured during the match? Don't know what the injury is though

Niang out for 3 months with broken bones in his foot...

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 6 2015, 09:44 AM

So, is it now that we can push the panic button Han?

Posted by: Danny Aug 6 2015, 11:25 AM

I think this is what Mr Pippo was referring to...

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 6 2015, 11:33 AM

It's alarming, there's no getting around it. What has really changed from last season? New manager, a few so-so signings and that's it. In the beginning I was thinking we'd spend big time and get important names, but nothing of the sort has happened. The start of the season is 16 days away, and we're in a dire situation.

Posted by: Danny Aug 6 2015, 12:10 PM

Defence = shite. I was dreadfully worried about the state of it, and 5 goals conceded in two games backs that up. We don't have a single CB I completely trust. Mexes = always getting sent off. Alex = always getting injured. Zaps = needs an alpha partner. All our faith is going in some kid from Roma FFS.

Midfield = shite. I am going to concede to Han on this - while I don't fully think a regista is the solution to EVERYTHING, we are in dire need of one. We simply do not have one single player we trust to put his foot on the ball and make a pass. We have no Pirlo, Gerrard, Modric, Turan type player in there. Witsel would be that man but we seem miles away from getting him. We just have no control in the middle.

Attack = it has potential but without supply it's not going to score.

Management = worrying. We looked great first half v Real, but since then it's fallen to pieces. The Audi Cup was utterly embarrassing - every inch the ICC from last summer. It's one thing losing to Greek champions, or a strong Liverpool, or Man City - but f*cking SPURS?!

Posted by: han2503 Aug 6 2015, 02:07 PM

Didn't watch but going by the comments, I guess it is time to start worrying.

There's obviously sill time to make the 2 or 3 signings we still desperately need imo, but I'm just not confident Galliani will get the job done. He's spent too much money already on signings that haven't really improved the squad imo and this has been my fear from the very start. Galliani is simply not good enough to handle transfer business anymore


I think the fact that we actually have a proper coach this season will be an important factor over last. But will it be enough to get us into 3rd place on it's own? Obviously not


Thing is, Witsel is not a regista either. He's box-to-box. That's why I'm still so sceptical about the entire thing because we already flushed major money on Bertolacci who's also a box-to-box guy. Witsel imo will bring much needed added quality to the side but he's still not exactly what we need.

If Ibra comes the issue of creativity will be solved. But the fact that we have no orchestrator in our midfield is seriously worrying for me. When we're playing against a side that backs off us it won't be as glaringly problematic, but if we play a team that presses us and gets physical with us we simply have no answer and continually concede possession because our midfielders are all very limited, both creatively and technically

Re the defence. I think Mexes and Zapata is our best bet tbh or Mexes and Romagnoli if we sign him

Posted by: Danny Aug 6 2015, 02:13 PM

Berto isn't box to box. Not from his displays this pre-season. He's a sitter. He doesn't move around a hell of a lot. He's a less mobile version of Poli but with more ability to pass simple. He cleans stuff up - not really what we needed but what he does he does fairly well. Did have one absolute zorker of a shot though. Should have been a goal.

Stop relying on Ibra.

I'm going with Alex and Zaps

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 6 2015, 02:50 PM

Witsel might not be Verratti or Modric, but he will still bring much needed quality in midfield. He's like Van Ginkel in a way, only a much better and experienced version of him.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 6 2015, 02:52 PM

By the way, since we're playing 4-3-1-2 this season, has anyone else wondered that we don't even have a proper trequartista to begin with? Honda is crap, Bonaventura is average, Bertolacci will most definitely be played as CM. That leaves only Suso, who's still a big question mark, and Menez, who's way too much indisciplined to be relied on.

We keep talking about CBs and CMs, but the trequartista role is very important too, especially if Ibra won't come.

Posted by: Danny Aug 6 2015, 03:22 PM

Weirdly I'm not overly sure the 1 in the 1-2 IS meant to be a trequartista.

I feel like that position is somewhat redundant - it's evolved into the super forward - the Suarez, Ronaldo, Messi who is as goal-providing as they are creative.

I have a suspicion we're looking less for a treq and more for that all-round super forward. And that's where an Ibra type comes in.

We're just not being linked to ANYONE who fits the bill of treq the way we understand.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 6 2015, 04:05 PM

Ronaldo is a pure winger, you rarely see him playing in the traditional "hole". Messi can play there because he's a natural number 10, whereas Suarez is a typical striker.

No team plays 4-3-1-2 anymore, at least not the big ones. Juve and Inter re-intoduced it last season after a long time, and Juve had to play Vidal there because they had no proper trequartista, which they are looking for now with names like Draxler and Götze being linked with. Inter already have Hernanes and Kovacic who can play there. We used to play Boateng and Robinho under Allegri because we had no better options.

The point is that if we wanna go for 4-3-1-2, we need someone behind the strikers who can be that creative asset whilst at the same time being a dangerous goal man. Suso is the only one that fits the bills perfectly from the players we have, but he's a big question mark at this point. Honda is crap, as I already said, and Bonaventura can barely be defined a "creative asset". Menez is too indisciplined, just like Ibra will be.

If you remember under Ancelotti, Rui Costa and Kaká spent a huge chunk of their time in midfield, collecting balls and helping the mids. That's what a trequartista entails, and it's the only way a 4-3-1-2 can properly work. I don't buy it for a minute that if you put someone like Menez, Suarez, Ibra etc. behind the strikers it will work, especially Ibra who's 34 and doesn't have it in him to be running at full pace for the whole 90 minutes.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 7 2015, 12:30 PM

I don't know about Bertolacci. He has certain traits of a box-to-box player like his runs into the box is something that he did a lot at Genoa. But he's not really a great passer and doesn't really track back all that much.

Can't stop, Ibra is the last hope I have for us having a semi-successful season

I think Mexes and Zapata work better together, plus Alex hasn't been all that encouraging this pre-season. His injury issues will also disrupt any continuity we want to get going this season in defence which is something we never had last season and was one of the many factors for our sh!t defence.


Yeah, I agree. That's why I said he will bring much needed quality into our midfield, but he's still not exactly what we need

If you give me a choice of Witsel or Gundogan, I'd take the latter without any hesitation. Because I feel we need a regista more than a box-to-box guy. Even if quality wise they're at about the same level


If Ibra comes we can do without getting someone really good in there, as he'll make whoever plays behind him great because he does bring others into the game. I think Bonaventura for example would excel with Ibra just like Prince and even Noverino did before. But if Ibra is a no-go, this issue is very worrying. Menez doesn't really provide that link and all our potential mids for that spot are average at best without someone like Ibra to really get the best out of them

I still think a CM is still more important than an AM at this point though. We can make do with the guys you've listed for just this season, but the die situation in central midfield for me is the most pressing issue, one that doesn't seem to be anywhere near at the top of Galliani's list. We've had a sh!t midfield for 4 years now, doesn't look like that's about to change anytime soon


Ronaldo either plays on the wing or as a CF, Suarez is a proper striker, I don't think I've ever seen him being played in the hole behind a front 2, Messi as x-off said is a pure 10, but even he doesn't really play the trequartista position either as Barca play a wide 3 upfront.

Like I've been saying already, if Ibra comes he's the main man in attack, not the guy behind the front 2. And really I don't think Adriano and Bacca should be playing next to each other whether Ibra comes or not. 2 pure CFs like those 2 rarely ever work well together.

If Ibra doesn't come then I think it will be Menez and Bacca

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 7 2015, 03:56 PM

You guys give yourself so much effort in analyzing all possible aspects, I gotta say I envy you. But as it looks to me, not much has changed. Milan still does not have the quality or the plan to bring us back in the CL or to the top.

Signing Ibra is a last hope, but it's also a easy way out, a shortcut. It's like Allegri's tactic, just pass the ball to Ibra and hope he'll do something. Now it's, just sing Ibra and a couple of nobody's, then hope something will happen.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 7 2015, 04:05 PM

I agree. By now, we should have laid the basis for the so-hoped restructuring. But the only players we've signed so far have been Mauri, Bertolacci, Adriano and Bacca. Very, very disappointing.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 7 2015, 06:04 PM

I've been weary of Galliani's moves and plan from the start. I was called negative and pessimistic. And I understand why you guys labelled me as that as at the start things looked promising. But the 70m he was about to spend on Jackson and Kondogbia were already insane and imo stupid. I don't think either player is worth what we were about to pay.

In the end we managed to get out of both, but it was an overall embarrassing exercise in showing an amateurish way of conducting business from someone who's been at this for nearly 3 decades.

Silvio and Galliani's relentless fetish with strikers still went on though and we spent 38m on 2 forwards who rely on service we cannot provide to be productive.

Overpaying by around 10m for a Roma player who also has only had one decent season at Genoa and we're about to do the same with Romagnoli. Neither player would have had a sniff in at being a starter at Roma btw.

Witsel would be the only real signing that will get me excited, and still I think that money could have gone into getting us a proper creative CM who's a natural orchestrator in the centre of midfield, something that Witsel simply isn't

Like I said in the other thread, Ibra could be the only redeeming factor of this mercato and even that is looking like a major longshot atm. But without him I can only see us getting a EL spot, even if we sign Witsel and Romagnoli

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 7 2015, 06:57 PM

Supposing we sign Romagnoli and Witsel but not Ibra.

Romagnoli (25)
Ely (0)
Jose Mauri (0)
Bertolacci (20)
Witsel (35)
Luiz Adriano (8)
Bacca (30)

Amount spent: €118 million, more or less. Good or bad?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 7 2015, 07:51 PM

Mihajlović was also a mistake, I'm sure. By getting Ancelotti or any big-name coach we could have attracted better caliber players. Now the only players who've been appealed by Milan are either former players like Ibra or Miha's former players like Romagnoli.

Posted by: Danny Aug 7 2015, 09:50 PM

Those players ended up costing Atletico and Inter 70M in total.

And you've done nothing but whine about the fact we got Berto and not Kondogbia.

You are SO contradictory!

Posted by: Danny Aug 7 2015, 09:51 PM

And La Liga's fifth top scorer and Colombian 20 cap 7 goal international Carlos Bacca.

We'll see come the start of the season if Miha was a mistake. I'll give him a few months for final judgement but will form an opinion after a few matches.

Audi Cup was diabolical.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 8 2015, 08:32 AM

Please point me to one post where I specifically said we should have gotten Kondogbia instead of Berto?

I was sceptical about Kondogbia from the start, didn't think he was worth what we were going to pay or what Inter ended up paying

Our argument was, and sorry for rehashing this but you're calling my contradictory now and you've also called me someone who doesn't ever change his views, it was about who is the better transfer. And looking at Inter's squad and what they needed for their midfield and then looking at our and what we needed for our midfield, I'd day Inter made the better move, because they signed a player that in theory should be the last piece to complete their midfield, while we on the other hand signed a player who we could still do without as we already have the likes of Bona and Monto to complete our run of the mill average quota.

I never said that Kondogbia would have been the better signing for US. Just that he's the better player with bigger potential and a better fit for Inter's needs than Berto is for ours.

Also, both teams overpaid for both players if you ask me. Kondogbia will only cost Inter 70m when you also add up the wages they'll pay him over the course of his contract

btw, the only thing that p!ssed me off about the Kondogbia deal is that we were made to look like idiots, just like with the Jackson deal

Posted by: William405 Aug 17 2015, 07:54 PM

I missed you guys!!!!! <3


There is the Perugia game in 5 minutes!!

Milan: Lopez; De Sciglio, Ely, Romagnoli, Antonelli; Bonaventura, De Jong, Bertolacci; Honda; Bacca, Adriano.

Milan bench: Abbiati, Donnarumma, Abate, Alex, Paletta, Jose Mauri, Montolivo, Nocerino, Poli, Suso, Cerci, Matri, Menez

Posted by: William405 Aug 17 2015, 08:15 PM

Goal Honda!!

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Aug 17 2015, 08:31 PM

Felt so dry over the last few days.. Good that we back on the forum..

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Aug 17 2015, 08:35 PM

it is 2-0 as well luiz adriano

Posted by: William405 Aug 17 2015, 08:43 PM

bacca 3-0

EDIT: did not count!

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 17 2015, 09:13 PM

Feels good to be back!

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 17 2015, 09:59 PM

You can say that again! I was worried the forums were down for good. Thank you Mike or whoever fixed the problem.

Anyway, 2-0 FT. Good match, I saw a lot of improvements in our game despite the opponent was only Perugia.

Bacca is impressive. He stroke me as a poacher kind of player from the YouTube videos, but the guy has actually a very nice dribbling. The other one that has thoroughly impressed me is Ely. Wow! This kid will become great, mark my words. At such a young age playing with incredible security and authority. I think with him and Romagnoli we have assured a very good and young defensive pairing for the next years to come.

Posted by: William405 Aug 17 2015, 10:07 PM

Awesome! Was really impressed with Ely in the previous friendlies. IMO this kid has got it!

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 17 2015, 10:08 PM

Mike, he fixed the problems, thankfully

Posted by: Danny Aug 17 2015, 10:35 PM

Really impressive tonight.

I don't care who the opposition were, I care how we played, and I can't really fault any aspect of our game.

It was comfortable, assured, confident, should have been more than two.

Good to see Adriano get his first goal, and Han, you now FINALLY willing to admit Bacca's the real deal and not just a shallow poacher?

PS, word is Romagnoli and Ely is now the official partnership.

Posted by: rip Aug 18 2015, 05:32 AM

This! Ibra is a great player no doubt. but we would become too dependent on him and i dontr want us to be a one man team. would rather buy a good trequartista.

hilights of last nights game. very impressed by Bacca

http://t.co/JUU4pEQMWa

Posted by: William405 Aug 18 2015, 06:04 AM

I think Honda would be good for us in that position. We just need someone to control the midfield.

Bacca is awesome. ^^

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 18 2015, 08:13 AM

Honda can control squat. He's just not fit to play in the Serie A.

Posted by: Danny Aug 18 2015, 11:05 AM

Oddly enough this pre-season is some of the best he's played for us!

I said a long time ago that he was maybe worth a 100M through shirt sales in the Far East etc, and that stands, but in terms of his ability, in general he's astoundingly mediocre.

He has a good free kick. And that's it!

Posted by: William405 Aug 18 2015, 11:38 AM

Hmm, we'll see about it, now he's playing in his best position. I think he can be a success.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 18 2015, 03:06 PM

Honda has shown all his worth in his time with us. He may feel more comfortable as trequartista, but his overall quality won't change. I'd pick Suso over him any day.

Posted by: Danny Aug 18 2015, 03:35 PM

Suso been linked back to La Liga, Malaga and Villarreal supposedly interested.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 18 2015, 04:58 PM

Yeah, I know. Hopefully he stays.

Posted by: milanbuf88 Aug 18 2015, 05:29 PM

Are those links for purchase or loan? I'd be ok with loaning him out but I'd rather we not sell.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 18 2015, 05:31 PM

Loan, AFAIK.

Posted by: William405 Aug 18 2015, 05:47 PM

Poor guy..keeps getting loaned out or sold. Just PLAY him!!

Posted by: Danny Aug 18 2015, 08:37 PM

I might be one of the only fans who just doesn't rate him. That he and Honda are the best options for trequartista are pretty slim pickings at best.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 19 2015, 12:37 PM

I never said he was a simple poacher, I said his movements are what I'd expect of a pocher. I've called him a CF, which imo is what he truely is. And it is why I think that him and Adriano won't work next to each other, especially when we have a workman like midfield and Honda as the "trequartista" behind them. If we had a top notch creative dinamic midfield behind them, I'd be more inclined to believe that they would work with each other, but with things as they are, I think Menez-Bacca would work much better than Adriano-Bacca. Simply because they're too similar. And with the lack of creativity behind then, they will struggle. And you might be undermining the fact that we were playing against a very inferior side to us but I think it's important to note that when we did play against the better side both of them looked very much isolated and this is the problem that I feel we'll have for the majority of next season (unless we sign Ibra or a proper AM that is)

As for Ely, I've been seriously impressed with him, but I feel like both him and Romagnoli are too green/inexperianced to be the starting duo. To tell the whole truth I was more impressed with Ely than Romagnoli, but Romagnoli is the one we spent 25m on so he'll definately start as long as he's fit. Once again, I think the fact that our opposition were who they were is being ignored a bit in this CB convo. I just don't think it's a feasible duo for the long run, mistakes are bound to happen and it could effect both players negatively. Obviously I could be wrong and Miha persists with them and they turn into one of the best duos in the league, but for now I'm a bit weary. Whoever starts the game against Fiorentina will be a clear indication of Mioha's intentions though, and if these two start and they do well it could turn out really great for us.


Ibra is a sure fire certainty for CL football or even a title challenge if we add Witsel into the mix as well. Also, we struggled sop terribly once we sold him last time because we/Allegri simply had no plan B for when we had to play without him. We were solely dependant on him and no one else

In this case I'm thinking Ibra would be a bridge. An instant gateway to the CL while also rebuilding the side. He's and easy solution. And until then the side will be built gradually until it comes time for Ibra to leave and by then we'll (hopefully) have a team that can be strong and competitive without him. That's what Ibra would be. I personally don't understand how anyone wouldn't want him back

Look at PSG for example, they have been very reliant on him, but they also have a team that can play and win without him, the same couldn't be said for Milan when he was playing with us


Honda is what he is. He's average at best. And he might look good occasionaly, especially when he is given time and space like he was given on Monday, but when you see him play regularly especially against good opponents, his shortcomings become very obvious. That's why I think Ibra or a proper AM is crucial for us, especially if Soriano () is who we're going to sign as a "solution" () for our midfield problems


Agreed about Honda, disagree about Suso. He's not ready to be a starter. And when he has played this pre-season he's been underwhelming at best in the AM position.


It's not that I don't rate him, I don't think I've seen enough of him to come to any sort of conclusions. I do think that he's no where near ready to be a starter though

All in all, I don't want to be a negative nancy here. I did enjoy watching a Milan game for the first time in I don't know how long now, I was impressed with how we played, I liked how the team defended as a whole, I like how they also attacked as a whole, not like last season for example where we played in segments (defended with just the 4 at the back, attacked with just the 3 upfront, midfield running around like headless chickens). As I've been saying for a month now, it's pretty obvious what Miha is working on and the system/tactics are very clear to see, which is a releif in and of itself. But we shouldn't lose sight of who we were playing against. I still think we at least need 1 proper great CM/AM to have any hopes of a successful season. Ibra would be the sure thing, although signing him is looking a bit unlikely atm

Posted by: Danny Aug 19 2015, 04:47 PM

I'm sure you'll find a way to explain this away

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 19 2015, 04:49 PM

Borh Ibra and Witsel seem very unlikey at this point, especially the latter.

Posted by: Danny Aug 19 2015, 04:56 PM

Oddly enough the Bacca debate myself and Han are 'enjoying' - I just happened to pop over to the Sky Sport site and they're doing a piece on FM. Highlighting one player in particular:



http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9956715/how-football-manager-is-helping-sky-sports-analyse-the-worlds-top-footballers

Posted by: han2503 Aug 19 2015, 07:41 PM

Got me there on the wording, have to admit. But the problem still remains. CF or poacher, he still needs service to truly thrive. I think he can still be relatively good on his own, I admit, I underestimated him a bit going on just YT vids, he looked like an awesome finisher, but watching him live for an entire 90 he definitely has that something extra. He's still not Ibra though, meaning a creative force all on his own as well.

I think him and Adriano against better sides would struggle, especially with that very average midfield behind them.

All I kept thinking while watching the match though was, man, if we had Ibra next to Bacca... With his smart movement, pace, quick thinking and Ibra's genius, that could be one truly explosive duo. Too bad it won't happen. That's why I still say best way to go is Menez-Bacca to start, Honda behind them. It's far from amazing but it should be enough against most Serie A sides. I can see us struggling to create against the top tier sides though

Posted by: han2503 Aug 19 2015, 07:44 PM

His pace and passing was what really got me thinking "Wow" tbh.

Posted by: Danny Aug 19 2015, 11:34 PM

I concede that pre-season is not the best barometer of judgement, be it a player or a team, but at the same time it's not the worst either.

Last pre-season was diabolical - and that was spot on regarding how our season went.

This one has been patchy, but with signs now and again that it's going in the right direction.

And Bacca has really stood out, as I hoped he would. Adriano not quite as much, and it took him till the Coppa match to finally spring to life a bit.

And re: Bacca - I think a lot of folks (me smugly excluded) underestimated how good he is and fixated on the price.

As for Ibra Bacca - would be nice - Adriano hasn't quite won folk over yet, but nevertheless those three would be half decent up top.

Re: Menez Miha's said if he doesn't play the way he (Miha) wants him to, aka unselfishly and creatively, he'll spend most his time on the bench. And I am for that. Menez with the right attitude could be explosive. He could be the best treq we've got, but we've not seen that part of him because he plays for himself.

Posted by: William405 Aug 20 2015, 06:34 AM

I remember reading that he played for the team when he entered in the Coppa match. I don't know cause my stream pretty much died in a huge chunk of the second half.

Still he's having back problems, and it's recurring. So, that's a major issue at the moment.

Honestly, I don't agree with y'all about Honda. I know he is not a spectacular player, but if he works in the system then why not. His pass leading to Luiz Adriano was pretty cool. He also always has a goal in him. So IDK.

I'm more than sure Miha prefers Menez, and sees him as a big part of the team, it's just the injury issues that's stopping us from seeing what he could do for Miha's Milan.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 20 2015, 11:27 AM

We won the Trofeo Tim last summer as well...

I think it all depends. Pre-season nowadays is mostly used to earn the club some extra cash. When you play a Bayern or Spurs side who are a week away from kicking off their season while we still have a month to go, it does have a huge impact on how we do, not to mention it could be a bit of a hit to morale, even if it is just a friendly.

I think it's been an overall good pre-season tbh. Only game where I was really disappointed was against Lyon.

I never really judged whether Bacca was good enough or not. I have mostly judged the supporting cast. And while I may have underestimated how good he can be without proper service, he would be far more fruitful if he had it. And playing another pure CF in Adriano next to him for me won't work long term. That's why I think that Menez should partner him. With Adriano being a direct sub for either one.

As for Menez, I didn't say he should play in the trequartista position, but the SS position. I personally don't think we should go for a pure attacker in that trequartista position. Ideally that player is a midfielder, both for the balance of the team and because 3 forwards in there will make it more messy rather than give us more attacking power imo.


I think having a top AM instead of Honda would take this team to another level. Yes we can do with Honda for now, but he's really not good enough if you have higher aspirations than just fighting for 3rd

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 20 2015, 11:54 AM

Agreed. The treq should be a midfielder. Forwards in that position rarely work because they don't have the discipline nor the tactical awareness.

Posted by: Danny Aug 21 2015, 03:25 PM

Someone oughta open the Fio thread.

Posted by: William405 Aug 21 2015, 06:59 PM

Yep! ^^ Come on Han, you can do it, there's nothing to it!

Posted by: han2503 Aug 21 2015, 07:00 PM

I shall

Posted by: acid911 Aug 21 2015, 08:35 PM

He did!

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 21 2015, 09:58 PM

No way!

Posted by: Danny Aug 21 2015, 10:53 PM

WAY

Posted by: han2503 Aug 22 2015, 08:02 AM

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 3 2015, 12:26 PM

We're playing Mantova today at 7PM. Balo is expected to start.

Posted by: Danny Sep 3 2015, 04:02 PM

I can honestly say I probably won't be watching this one. I usually watch absolutely every second of Milan, even pointless friendlies, but that window killed a great deal of my enthusiasm.

Only Milan could spend as much as PSG and Man City etc yet end up with a weaker and worse squad than they had at the start.

I'll probably keep up to speed on Twitter if I'm not busy, but I probably will be.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 3 2015, 05:15 PM

Will be going out. Will check out a repay if we do well (which should be a given here)

Posted by: amancik Sep 3 2015, 07:26 PM

Balotelli playing behind the two strikers. I must say, so far not bad at all.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 3 2015, 07:44 PM

Don't forget who the opponent is. We destroyed Perugia, but sucked @ss when we faced a real opponent in Fiorentina.

Posted by: amancik Sep 3 2015, 07:48 PM

He looks good physically. Working tirelessly, always ready to receive the ball. Hope he continues this attitude throughout the season.

Balotelli, Donnarumma and Adriano aside, our midfield can't do sh*t. If we have better midfielders we would have buried Mantova.