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Posted by: han2503 Oct 20 2014, 03:19 PM

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 20 2014, 03:58 PM

Gotta win this. One week to prepare, everyone bar Monto available, playing at home. Time to bring the big guns!

Posted by: Danny Oct 20 2014, 04:23 PM

Good chance of a win - I'd go with:

----------Abbiati (he's earned it)

Abate---Alex-------Zapata-----Armero

-----Bona-----De Jong------MvG

----------------Honda

-------Menez------------SES

Torres is woeful at the moment, and SES is showing industry, but no attacking flair because he's playing too deep.

So that's what I'd pick.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 20 2014, 05:00 PM

How good that midfield would be. I believe Bona will start this one, but it will be with either Poli or Muntari. I'd be more than fine if it's with Poli.

My prediction:



PS: Danny, it's true that Abbiati was super against Verona, but that's just like him. He has an amazing game followed by 2-3 shoddy performances. Plus let's not forget the guy is 37. If fit, Lopez has to start.

Posted by: Danny Oct 20 2014, 05:48 PM

I'll be blunt about Lopez - he's not really impressed me yet.

As for MDS - absymal for too long, needs to be brought down a bit by being dropped. Right now he's walking blindly through matches without feeling he'll ever be dropped.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 20 2014, 08:02 PM

I like both line-ups you guys put out (minus Muntari in what x-off is predicting of course). However, I'd still go ahead with Torres for now, the Menez in the false 9 position only worked in those 2 opening games then it sort of went downhill from there.

Plus I think you guys are neglecting what Torres as a pure CF brings to the 4-3-3 Pippo uses, Just see which one of Menez or SES is in the best form to start the game and play one of them on the left.

As for DS, I'd still go with him over Armero, for me a FB is not just about his running up and down the flank, it means being a defender too, and DS is that, Armero not so much

Posted by: Danny Oct 24 2014, 02:33 PM

I am fascinated by what team Pippo will put out. Only player we don't have for this one is Monto.

We have, in theory, a very strong squad to choose from, and it would frustrate me to see Rami, Muntari and SES start.

Yes, I've changed my mind on SES. I'd rather a front 3 of Menez/Honda/Torres. Because...if we start with our best midfield we won't need SES support in there. And if we start with our best defence we won't need his support there either.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 24 2014, 03:18 PM

Mediaset line-up: Diego Lopez; Abate, Alex, Rami, De Sciglio; Poli, De Jong, Muntari; Honda, Torres, El Shaarawy.

If Pippo doesn't play Bonaventura and Menez again, I'll be pissed.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 24 2014, 03:46 PM

Attack is okay imo, Defence is good.

But that midfield AGAIN! When he has so many players to choose from all of which bring in much better qualities to our midfield than f@cking Muntari. Getting so sick of this.

The only way we'll be rid of him is if he has a nightmare showing ala Bonera, otherwise we're stuck with him.

Just play Bona, DJ and Poli FFS

Posted by: Danny Oct 24 2014, 03:50 PM

Hope that's wrong wrong wrong. Absolutely absurd to play Rami, Poli, and Muntari when we have Zapata, Van Ginkel and Bonaventura.

And to have the ever-underperforming El-Sha as attack instead of Menez again is comical. Ditto Torres who's been a total failure since he left Liverpool and ain't showing us any signs he can do it here.

So...I'll just assume that's way wrong.

Posted by: Danny Oct 24 2014, 03:52 PM

Both are one player off being really good. But as it stands both are mediocre at best. Rami is a liability, and Alex is having to clean up after him. MDS is in bad form but I'll forgive that as we know how good he can be.

And attack is a mess. SES, Torres and Honda - SES cannot offer anything up top (neither is Torres for that matter), and Menez' absence is ludicrous.

Another frustrating selection if it turns out to be accurate.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 24 2014, 04:36 PM

Or if he breaks a leg...

Posted by: han2503 Oct 24 2014, 04:48 PM

Rami is a liability but you want Zapata?

Nah man, you just like Zapata, Zapata can be a huge liability as well, especially his passing, at least Rami can make a simple pass out of defence so that's one less thing to worry about.

I think the defence is good. Attack was a toss up between SES and Menez and I think Stephan deserves to start after the game he played last Sunday and as I said, I think Torres is very crucial for our attack, even if he's not scoring atm.

My only issue (which has been the case throughout this season so far) is that midfield. Muntari again, after weeks of being a complete liability in our midfield, he still gets to start when there are Van Ginkel and Bona rotting on the bench, just unfathomable how this guy gets to start each week when he offers nothing to our game aside from trying to assist the opposition. That's the only area where I wish the prediction is incorrect, however, going be recent trend, I think it's spot on, especially midfield, that's the midfield Pippo usually goes for.


I absolutely cannot stand him, but I'd never wish that on anyone

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 24 2014, 06:39 PM

Though I know you would secretly rejoice if that does happen.

Posted by: Danny Oct 24 2014, 09:41 PM

Most disgusting post you'll ever make. Disappointing. I wouldn't wish a broken leg on any footballer bar one who'd deliberately broken someone else's. I suggest you retract this view.

Posted by: Danny Oct 24 2014, 09:41 PM

So the bit where he can't actually f*cking defend is ok?

Posted by: han2503 Oct 24 2014, 10:08 PM

No, because that's not true and you know it. Him and Alex are doing a solid job and unless he does something Bonera-like, I see no reason to disrupt the continuity that Pippo has finally managed to achieve with the back 4, we can only improve defensively if we have a set back 4

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 24 2014, 10:19 PM

It was a joke.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 24 2014, 10:20 PM

Hm, solid is an overestimation. Alex has been a rock, but Rami has been very shaky.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 24 2014, 11:07 PM

http://youtu.be/Ybgd5zsq374

Posted by: Danny Oct 25 2014, 12:22 AM

No I don't. He's completely unstable and makes constant errors. He's terrible.

Posted by: Danny Oct 25 2014, 12:23 AM

Interweb of the Net is lousy at expressing tone! Too deadpan lad.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 25 2014, 12:29 AM

I thought using the smiley face made that clear. Never mind.

Posted by: Danny Oct 25 2014, 01:10 AM

Alas not, not even Han got it and you two are supposed to be kindred spirits on all things Milan. Well. Except Rami, Balotelli...

Posted by: acid911 Oct 25 2014, 01:31 AM

I got it, though.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 25 2014, 08:20 AM

I said him AND Alex, meaning as a pairing in these last 2 games they're doing a solid job. The problem in defence are mostly caused by our inept midfield, not because of the individuals in defence.

Danny, I don't think that's the case with Rami at all, but I would put that same label on Zapata. To each his own, we all see what we want to see at times.

Still I think Pippo is going to go ahead with the Alex Rami pairing for now.

@ acid, you think everything is a joke

@ x-off's joke, I didn't really get it because I know you can't stand him as much as I do so it wouldn't be inconceivable to wish a long term injury on him so he'd finally be out of our hair for a while.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 25 2014, 11:39 AM

Yeah, but Han is a pacifist, so he doesn't get these kind of jokes.

Posted by: Danny Oct 25 2014, 12:30 PM

tbh he doesn't get ANY jokes

(Only joking Hanly)

Posted by: Danny Oct 25 2014, 12:32 PM

Yeah, like I saw Zapata being selected for a world cup quarter finalist Colombia and you saw Rami win the world cup with France having saved a goal with his penis on the goal line in the last minute against Germany

Posted by: acid911 Oct 25 2014, 04:03 PM

Not this one, Han. I'm terribly offended by your statement above.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 25 2014, 08:30 PM

Update: Abbiati; Abate, Alex, Rami, De Sciglio; Poli, De Jong, Muntari; Honda, Menez, El Shaarawy.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 25 2014, 09:01 PM

And midfield still the same. Just about to give up on hoping that we'll ever see a proper midfield out there again at this point.

Posted by: Danny Oct 25 2014, 10:03 PM

Not sure how there can be an update, Pippo said today he's choosing tomorrow 2 from SES, Torres and Menez, and that Honda definitely starts.

Any lineups right now are complete guesswork.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 25 2014, 11:43 PM

I always post what Mediaset writes. They're saying Menez will play, so...

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 09:53 AM

I would believe that Pippo has a clear idea on who to play before then, mediaset and Gazzetta go off the training selections, so I wouldn't be surprised if they're 100% correct on that last prediction. Defence and midfield are certainly correct, only one doubt in attack but I wouldn't be surprised to see him going back to Menez in the false 9 position

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 26 2014, 02:15 PM

Ont of the toughest fixtures this year and the team need to keep it tight in midfield as la viola have been impressive imposing their style on opponents.

Here's hoping for the three points

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 26 2014, 05:01 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYx0btDjhMs

Who remembers this? It was a few days before Sheva would be awarded the Ballon d'Or. Such a fantastic performance.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 26 2014, 07:57 PM

Abbiati; Abate, Alex, Zapata, De Sciglio; Poli, De Jong, Muntari; Honda, Menez, El Shaarawy.

bench: Diego Lopez, Agazzi, Armero, Bonera, Rami, Essien, Saponara, Van Ginkel, Bonaventure, Niang, Pazzini, Torres.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 26 2014, 08:22 PM

I expect Abbiati to mess up somehow.

Posted by: KillerMax Oct 26 2014, 08:40 PM

Horrible line up IMO. Fiorentina have been pretty terrible so far so that's my only hope. I think the midfield three is toothless and I think Menez and El Shaa just don't get along on the pitch. Here's hoping for the best but I'm not holding my breath.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 08:42 PM

I'm mostly p!ssed off about that midfield. Especially when Bona is sitting on the bench, just ridiculous how Muntari has an automatic starting spot on this team!

Posted by: milanbuf88 Oct 26 2014, 08:56 PM

Muntari goes in late already.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 08:57 PM

Careful, you'll be branded as Muntari obsessed

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 09:01 PM

We just don't know how to keep possession in midfield, none of our players in there are built for that

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 09:02 PM

Muntari twice in late with 2 terrible tackles.

Posted by: William405 Oct 26 2014, 09:08 PM

Nasty shot from El Sharaawy..

Posted by: milanbuf88 Oct 26 2014, 09:09 PM

Great shot by El Shaarawy even if he was offside on that pass.

Posted by: William405 Oct 26 2014, 09:09 PM

Yep, same thing week in week out.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 09:10 PM

@ Jack S. Notice how our midfield cannot for the life of them string more than 3 to 4 passes together at a given time.

Please tell me again how playing so many DMs/muscle players in the midfield is beneficial for us, we can't get the ball to the attackers and Fiorentina have the upper hand atm

Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 26 2014, 09:11 PM

De Jong!!!!

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 09:11 PM

DE JONG!!!!

For once we made good use of a set-piece

Posted by: William405 Oct 26 2014, 09:12 PM

De Jonggg!!

Posted by: milanbuf88 Oct 26 2014, 09:12 PM

DE JONG!!!

Posted by: William405 Oct 26 2014, 09:13 PM

Only positive thing I see is that we're utilizing our wide players well...I believe we're basically relying on wide play because we don't have anyone that can create anything in the middle.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 09:14 PM

Only on the right side mostly though. Mostly because both Honda and Abate take the initiative to run at people.

Menez is so individualistic. Just pass FFS!

Posted by: William405 Oct 26 2014, 09:16 PM

Yep, although Sharaawy is doing it too.

Totally agreed about Menez..

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 09:18 PM

Yeah, but it's more difficult for him because he barely has any support on that side, DS seems pretty clueless this season in terms of pushing forward, and Muntari is Muntari.

Most of the times that he manages to make a run at their defence is after recovering the ball himself

Posted by: William405 Oct 26 2014, 09:20 PM

OMG ZAPATA, can you be any more stupid???

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 09:20 PM

My god!! Zapata and his passing will give me a heart attack one of these days.

As I was saying to Danny, he does this thing at least once in every game

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 09:21 PM

WTF IS ZAPATA DOING FFS????!!!

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 09:22 PM

De Jong twice bailing Zapata out after making 2 terrible errors.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 09:24 PM

We need another goal ASAP. I really do not want to see us trying to defend a 1-0, not with the liabilities we have running around on that pitch

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 09:25 PM

Zapata AGAIN!! Passing right into a Fiorentina player

Posted by: KillerMax Oct 26 2014, 09:33 PM

You just hate our black players!

Posted by: William405 Oct 26 2014, 09:33 PM

HT

I've come to know what to expect from this Milan. We're mainly relying on getting in one goal at the start, and then waiting for the counter. Inzaghi doesn't seem to have changed anything at all about the way we play honestly.

Disappointed with how we played..but can't help feeling good about the overall score.

Zapata was just terrible, I'd prefer having Bonera there ATM..

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 09:34 PM

Ht 1-0, and it wasn't really deserved

Pippo needs to change something, we need a point of reference upfront, this Menez thing as a false 9 won't work against any half decent side.

Our midfield is just completely anonymous, we just can't keep the ball for any notable length of time, Poli is MIA, Muntari (thankfully) is also MIA, De Jong doing what he can, but he's seriously not the guy you want trying to be the playmaker.

Defence is shaky but okay so far. Zapata though is just an accident waiting to happen any time he's on the ball my heart just stops

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 09:34 PM

Yeah, I'm a big ole' racist

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 09:35 PM

Woah! don't go too far now!

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 26 2014, 09:36 PM

Bad first half. I like how we defended and pressed their players, but is that it? Fiorentina had the initiative throughout the game. We only attacked as a unit a couple of times. It's been mostly long balls and counter attacks.

Honda was invisible except for the last 5-10 minutes. El Shaarawy did jacksh*t.

And someone should tell Zapata to stop passing the ball to the frigging opponent! He's done it THREE TIMES already.

Posted by: acid911 Oct 26 2014, 09:37 PM

Can't. It's his specialty!

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 09:40 PM

They and Abate are the only ones really taking any initiative to attack!

Menez is just as invisible, the problem with our attack is the midfield. All the attacks we've initiated were mostly SES/Honda winning the ball back and running for their life with it.

We just do not have a midfield. To watch Milan not be the team who has control of the game against Fiorentina at the San Siro says it all. We just cannot keep hold of the ball.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 26 2014, 09:49 PM

Menez invisible? He's been part of all our attack one way or another. If there's anyone who's been invisible, that's SES.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 09:54 PM

Can't agree with that, as for Menez, he's been very frustrating more than anything else imo

Holds onto the ball too long

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 09:55 PM

Menez, again selfish! This is what I mean

Posted by: William405 Oct 26 2014, 09:55 PM

Was that Poli???? Beautiful!!

Fucking Menez..what the hell?

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 26 2014, 09:56 PM

PASS IT MENEZ!!!

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 09:56 PM

Yeah, that was Poli

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 26 2014, 10:04 PM

Make some changes Pippo FFS!

Posted by: William405 Oct 26 2014, 10:06 PM

Yess...

Menez doing it again..

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 10:06 PM

This is what I mean about Menez, just keeps the ball soooo long trying to do everything on his own

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 10:08 PM

f@cking predictable!!!

WTF were they doing FFS!??

Just no midfield

Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 26 2014, 10:08 PM

So stupid...

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 26 2014, 10:08 PM

Deserved. We play like sh*t.

Posted by: milanbuf88 Oct 26 2014, 10:09 PM

Ilicic makes it 1-1. Bad defending and Abbiati should have done better.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 10:11 PM

Make some changes FFS!!

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 10:11 PM

lol, Bona for Poli, Muntari stays on the pitch!

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 26 2014, 10:14 PM

Torres needs to come in for Honda.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 26 2014, 10:20 PM

LOL, no handball whatsoever and we complain like b*tches.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 10:21 PM

About to lose 2 points stupidly when we had a massive opportunity to go third

And why are still playing with no striker FFS?

Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 26 2014, 10:23 PM

Pippo is so late with the subs.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 10:23 PM

What is he supposed to do this late in the game, this sub should have been made earlier

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 10:24 PM

Muntari trying to direct play with hand gestures is too funny

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 10:27 PM

Why are we playing like we're winning by 2 or 3 goals?? So lazy, just no urgency in our play at all

Posted by: William405 Oct 26 2014, 10:38 PM

Mehhh..terrible.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 26 2014, 10:40 PM

Very poor performance. This was the exact copy of the Verona game, only there we managed to score thanks to a goofy own goal and two long passes. Plus Abbiati made a few miracles. Here we weren't so lucky, and we rightfully didn't win.

Inzaghi has still a lot to learn, if he'll ever learn. We don't deserve to get that 3rd spot playing like this.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 10:41 PM

2 lost points here

If this is what Pippo envisions for a great Milan then I really do not want to see where we go from here!

We play like a provincial side.

We don't control the game, we don't have a proper midfield, we don't take any sort initiative, just zero passion or urgency in our play in those last 20 minutes or so after they scored.

What I saw was pretty unbelievable! Last 10 minutes of the game and we're passing it around slowly as if we're winning comfortably.

Just not good enough.

Some of the players need to take a serious look at themselves, none of them seemed to be even the slightest bit put off that we weren't winning.

Zapata; horror show on the ball, DS; too lethargic, too comfortable; Muntari; his usual a-hole self, Poli; invisible for most of the game, De Jong; not a f@cking playmaker! SES; too isolated, seems like he's feeling sorry for himself atm, needs to wake the f@ck up, Menez; so f@cking selfish!!

Posted by: Danny Oct 26 2014, 10:49 PM

Frustration and anger don't cover my emotions right now. I need to vent. Badly. So here I go.

Abbiati 6 Had nothing to do all night except pick the ball out the net.

Abate: 6 Good work in defence, but his crossing suffered even if he made some decent runs here and there.

MDS: 1 Pitiful. Utterly absolutely shockingly dire. If he doesn't get dropped pronto I'll drive to the San Siro myself and kidnap him and stick him in a cellar. Cost us two points l on top of his other shiteness.

Alex: 7 Strong defensive display. Some vital blocks.

Zapata: 7 Occasional shakiness but still an upgrade over Rami and some excellent tackles - plus the assist.

De Jong: 8 Really good strong display and got a great goal.

Poli: 8 His best display in a Milan shirt and it was fucking ridiculous seeing him get subbed.

Muntari: 6 Some wobbiness as per but he was OK. Nothing more or less.

Menez: 3 Since Parma we have to face that this guy's been a joke. Utterly cr*p, wastes everything now.

SES: 6 His usual solid array of support in midfield and defence but inability to produce up top.

Honda: 5 Worked hard but offered absolutely nothing. His poorest show in ages.

Subs:

Bona: 3 Wow, he was terrible.

Torres: 3 No time to impact.

Pippo: 5 Got some things right, such as the defence, bar MDS, but the midfield struggled for creativity as it HAD NONE. And that 3 up front were horrendous. The subs were just ghastly.

Infuriating night where we should have been third, but we're now 6th thanks to a comical lack of urgency to score the winner, a woeful lack of quality to produce chances, and MDS' continuing nosedive into shittery.

PS: Remember MDS said a year ago he prefers to be on the right and felt more at ease there? Recently he said he prefers the left and feels more at ease there. He's a confused young man and needs desperately to be benched.

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Posted by: Danny Oct 26 2014, 10:56 PM

PPS: I feel like I want to smash something. I haven't been this angry about a Milan result/performance in ages.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 10:58 PM

Danny, you lost me when you gave Zapata a 7... Horrible, horrible, horrible display!!

He took Muntari's place as gaffe master in this one, 3 times he directed the ball to a Fiorentina player.

Poli had a half decent 2nd half but was mostly anonymous imo, I don't think he deserves an 8 (in all honesty, no one does today)

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 26 2014, 11:00 PM

Too bad we didn't solidify a lead over them. But this is a team that has had continuity, ours on the otherhand have just restarted this summer, via a third coach in under one year.

It is only the 8th match day; pippo has 4wins 3 draws and 1 defeat, not bad for a rookie under pressure to deliver at a demanding club with few resources.

Posted by: Danny Oct 26 2014, 11:00 PM

Ok.

Posted by: Danny Oct 26 2014, 11:03 PM

It's been an overall good start but Pippo is starting to annoy me.

Won't drop the catastrophically cr*p MDS, won't drop Muntari, and won't change the right things when they go wrong.

Why did we sign guys like Bona and MVG if Pippo won't play them?

Monto will be back next month and Muntari, he and De Jong will be the midfield. Poli, despite doing nothing wrong, will lose his place and will watch as the wild and unpredictable Muntari keeps his.

And Bona and MVG will sit there wondering why they bothered signing.

Posted by: Danny Oct 26 2014, 11:05 PM

PPPPPS: Wonder how Armero is feeling right now. Deserves a start. You know, world cup quarter finalist RB...can't be worse than MDS.

Posted by: Danny Oct 26 2014, 11:06 PM

Some of the individual displays were good, very good, and just because the team as a whole was flat and shitty doesn't make those individual shows any worse.

The whole does not always reflect the sum of its parts.

Posted by: Danny Oct 26 2014, 11:06 PM

PPPPPPPPPPPS: I need to lie down in a dark room with relaxing Tibetan music, but alas the OH wants me to watch bloody X Factor with her. I'm in hell.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 26 2014, 11:20 PM

Agreed with all your votes.

Zapata was solid, Han. His brainfart passing has nothing to do with his defensive work, which was excellent.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 11:28 PM

You cannot tell me that you're going to ignore the fact that Zapata nearly assisted Fiorentina 3 times on his own just so you don't admit that you were wrong about him are you? Or because you like him better than Rami, either way, a defender that consistantly makes awful passing mistakes that could easily lead to us conceding a goal cannot be called solid or reliable to be a first choice starter


I know that, I just don't think Poli was that good, he was a total no show in that first half , and I personally didn't think there was a single player out there for us who played well today, I'm personally disappointed in all of them, to see them lazily passing it around in the last 10 minutes when we not only had the opportunity to go 3rd, but to get within 2 points of Roma, was completely disheartening for me, this kind of thing just saddens me because it shows where our (lack of) ambitions lie

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 11:35 PM

Had one of those brain farts resulted in a goal you would be singing a completely different tune, I'm sure.

How can you say his defensive work was solid? Part of being a defender means passing the ball out of defence and Zapata is a complete and total liability in that respect, add to that his at times suspect positioning and you have a recipe for disaster, there was a reason why Rami was warming up at half time

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 26 2014, 11:38 PM

http://www.football-italia.net/57800/inzaghi-milan-regrets-draw

If there's one thing that makes my blood boil is coaches who spew bullshit on a constant basis like Pippo does.

No. Fiorentina has been crap so far, saying a draw from them at home is an impressive feat makes you look like an idiot.



No, it wasn't a balanced game. We played like sh*t, Fiorentina had the initiative the whole time.



WHAT???



How exactly are we on the right path when you keep playing that hideous midfield?



No, we didn't! On the contrary, we played like we were happy with the draw.

For god's sake Pippo, have some self respect.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 26 2014, 11:43 PM

What suspect positioning? His defending was impeccable tonight. Danny is right, him and Alex are by far the best pairing we can afford right now.

If Thiago Silva made similar mistakes, would you want him benched as well? A defender isn't judged on his passing skills, but on his defensive abilities, and Zapata ticks the box in that regard. At least for our current standards.

Posted by: Danny Oct 26 2014, 11:46 PM

Ok.



He was dogged - his usual tireless tracking, running, harrying. Second half he added marvellous individual play to it hence my high praise of him.



I don't think Pippo was to blame in terms of the passion - he was on the sidelines barking orders but the players just weren't doing anything. For whatever reason his passion didn't connect to them.

Posted by: Danny Oct 26 2014, 11:49 PM

You usually hate my votes haha!

Must be the power of Lara. Ok I have no idea what that meant.

Your thoughts on Menez? I bought into your gushing praise earlier this season, and indeed most of us were raving after Parma but I sense you've changed your mind?

It p*ssed me off especially to see him look spent after 30 minutes. This guy is just desperately unfit, or disinterested. And I've had enough of the latter type of player after Balo.

Posted by: Danny Oct 26 2014, 11:52 PM

Just a crying shame MDS seems to have gone in completely the wrong direction and a defence, on paper, which should have been our best, was let down by one component - his careless pass into (was it Ilicic's) path exposed both Alex and Zapata and neither could recover.

In short, IMO MDS cost us 3rd place.

He's been as out of form as SES for about the same length of time.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 11:52 PM

He is known to make positional mistakes on occasion, not today, and as I said had one of his errors lead to a goal you would be singing a different tune, a top defender like Silva wouldn't make those kinds of mistakes, otherwise he woukdn't be considered a top defender

Posted by: Danny Oct 27 2014, 12:05 AM

I don't deny his media performances haven't been the best, but in his defence is he actually meant to come out after one bad result/performance and absolutely lay into them publicly? We've been in decent nick in recent matches, this display tonight was not the usual. If you castrate them after one bad one you lose support in the dressing room.

Privately I'm sure he'll be going for their throats and demanding more for Wednesday, but publicly, for now, he has to be supportive, and I back him on that.

It's his team selections, strategies, and subs I'm beginning to question a tad.

I would disagree with one comment you made - neither side really had any initiative in this match - it was a fucking terrible game and Fio made few chances and little possesion. They were horrible. We had that one for the taking and we mucked it up. I just don't know why.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 27 2014, 12:08 AM

I don't agree that he's been poor since Parma. He was good against Empoli and Chievo, he tried against Juve, and he was lethargic against Cesena like the rest of the team.

But tonight he was downright frustrating. It's not that he doesn't try. He was constantly pressing their defenders and making a lot of movement, but it was his individualism which annoyed the hell out of me. He doesn't pass the ball when he's supposed to, and tries these stupid one-on-one duels that only give more time and space to the opponent. He should try to be more of a team player.



MDS has to be dropped! If Pippo doesn't get it even after tonight then he's just a masochist.



If one of his passes had cost us a goal tonight then I would have rightfully criticized him for that, but that takes nothing from his defensive performance. He might not be a world beater, but between him and Rami right now I'd choose Zapata every day of the week. Plus I think he and Alex complement each other perfectly.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 27 2014, 12:15 AM

He can say whatever he wants to the players, but don't be a frigging jerk to the fans, man! The least I need after such a pitiful performance is Pippo telling me that we have many reasons to be pleased tonight.

And I do think Fiorentina had the initiative. They were the ones in control of the game, but that's not equivalent to them playing well. They were bad, but at least they tried. Instead, we seemed happy with closing them down and counterattacking every time we had a chance. That's not the way to go, at all.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 27 2014, 08:18 AM

I understand the frustration, we all wanted a win. We all wanted to see creativity and 10/10 subs. And we all wanted Milan back with a BANG.

But sometimes that does not happen via a kick-start rather a gradual improvement.

PS: Hope the next game comes with 3 points though.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 27 2014, 08:20 AM

Haha...I knew this would be the reaction here. We start off the season saying we'll be satisfied with fifth, but the moment we lose out on a chance to make 3rd it's all hellfire.

Not a surprising result actually. Truth be told I agree with Pippo's assessment completely. The defence as a team was the best I've seen from Milan this season. The offence, on hindsight perhaps we shouldn't have dropped Torres and broken the front three chemistry.

Fiorentina had looked to keep tabs on Honda, Menez was dropping deep.

In a nutshell, this game went the way it did because neither team could gain control in midfield, which is credit to us because we don't have a single creative player in midfield and they struggled with Aquilani looking distinctly horrible.

De Sciglio is a bit off. Going through a rough patch, and I'm worried that the constant stream of changing defenders and left flank attackers leaves him confused. But we expect much more from him. I think the right thing to do is not place too much pressure on him and destroy him like they did Santon.

This performance is a 6.5/10 for me. All season we're a 7.5/10.

Anyway, Montolivo coming back is essential for this squad. Torres isn't firing. We should have expected that he would take a full season to get good.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 27 2014, 08:52 AM

See this is what bothers me Danny, not doing this to defend DS, but you're basically blaming him for this result after making a mistake that Zapata repeated THREE TIMES over, only DS got punished Zapata didn't.

Yes, DS made an error, he was unfortunately the unlucky one who got punished for it, that's usually what happens when things are just not going right for you.

Now, this is not to say that I'm defending his performances in general, I thought he'd done better last week vs Verona and I still stand by that, and I thought defensively he was generally okay today. It's the other aspects of his game that are really worrying for me, I agree with you that he needs to be dropped for a game or 2, catch his breath, reflect. He's been playing constantly for club and country now for these last 2 months, a break could do him well.

However, please, do not blame this loss on him, this loss was the entire side's fault, we all knew we would never be able to keep a clean sheet, trying to sit on a 1-0 when we're one of the leakiest defences in the league for me is the definition of stupid, that has to fall on Pippo, the attitude of the players (all of them) was just unbelievable to watch, they had this in their grasps, 2 points away from Roma and they let it slip away


I've been questioning this for a while, the selections have been horrible from day 1 and they haven't improved, only have gotten worse imo as he has all his options open and still decides to persist with Muntari, Menez back as a false 9 and dropping Torres was also a mistake and you were also right about DS, he shouldn't keep persisting with him when he's so clearly out of form, sitting a couple of games down will do him some good


I'm sorry but I can't understand how you'd say that. When your starting CB is constantly in danger of costing you a goal because of his horrific passing then I can't see how he's your best option, just does not make any sense.

@ Jack, nice try trying to play it off, but the key point here is that we had a golden opportunity tonight and not only did we not take it but we lazily p!ssed it away. Watching them jogging around instead of actually trying to spark something in the last 10 minutes was appalling, they were happy with the draw and I'm sorry but I can never accept this kind of attitude, especially when facing a toothless Fiorentina.

As for the midfield, you say you expect this to happen because we have no creative players, how logical... We've lost the midfield battle in pretty much every game this season, any half decent side we face is going to get a result against us playing with this kind of midfield, I'm wondering, do you still think it's the right way to go to play all of Poli, Muntari and De Jong at the same time? Even after seeing this awful performance where we couldn't string 3 passes together and Fiorentina had the upper hand in the game from start to finish?

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 27 2014, 09:11 AM

I despise the jogging argument. Did you see the pressing in the first half? That takes stuff out of you in terms of energy. Ilicic is a great long ball shot...and trust me if he hadn't unleashed that shot and instead tried to dribble just a few metres longer, our boys would have been back and snuffed it out.

That was a great shot and deserved a goal. Too much fuss is being made out of it.

In a way it shows our improvement that from resignation we've gone up to frustration. Give this team some time. We're a shite team playing better than we ought to.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 27 2014, 09:39 AM

You're making excuses though

The jogging argument is frustrating because it's true. The fact that we were happy to pass it around in the last 10 minutes instead of trying to spark some pace in our game and put them under pressure is what's so bad and frustrating after this performance

We pressed them? We let them have the ball and tried to counter on them for most of the game! That's small club tactics all the way.

A deserved goal because Fiorentina were the side with the upper hand throughout the game, they deserved the goal, because we played in a way that just allowed them to control the game

We do not have a midfield capable of keeping possession, simple as that, and until Pippo starts playing players in there who know how to keep hold of the ball better we'll continue having these problems.

You're forgetting, looking comfortable against this Fiorentina side in defence is no big feet, they've been toothless without Rossi and Gomes this season, they've been struggling to score goals, and not only could we not keep a clean sheet against them at home while we were leading, we also failed to dominate the game and take the initiative in the San Siro.

At least under both Seedorf and Allegri we'd have kept hold of the ball and tried to put pressure on them, we kept possession better (even if it was useless possession) we just do not know how to do that under Pippo, and that's going to cost us as the season goes on if that's not fixed. And first order of business to do that would be to bring in players in midfield who are not jut there to run around like headless chickens and lose the ball as soon as they receive it

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 27 2014, 11:18 AM

Ha! Ha! Ha!

Are you still of the opinion that playing both Muntari and Polii gives us balance and makes us sound defensively? That's 11 goals conceded in 8 games, Jack. Not only we keep conceding and losing points because of it, but it affects the way we play because no-one in our midfield can hold the ball. We end up closing ourselves in our own half and letting the opponent have the initiative. It's happened in almost every game this season.

I said after the first half that I liked how we were defending and how we were constantly pressing their players, but you think van Ginkel or Bonaventura can'd do that? We need more quality in midfield, at this point it's become too obvious even for those who thought it was OK a few weeks ago.

Remember my rant after the Juve game? I said that game reflected Pippo's mentality, and so far that mentality hasn't changed a bit, be it against Verona or Fiorentina. We just cannot take a grasp of the game, hold possession, cool things down, make the opponent lose their initiative. But no, we just sit back in the hope of not conceding. There's a name for teams who play like that, they're called mid-table teams!

We have accumulated 15 points in 8 games, so what? Udinese, Sampdoria and Lazio have more points than us, and they 1) have inferior players, 2) were placed even lower than us last season.

Suddenly, not being 8th and not losing every game is considered a success here. Oh my, oh my...

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 27 2014, 12:06 PM

I'm of the opinion that playing Muntari and Poli is better than playing Muntari or Essien. Because there is no one else, everyone else is out injured. Saponara, MvG, Montolivo everyone.

Oh wait, yes...your idea is we play Bonaventura there. We did play him though in the end.

There was Bonaventura, Torres, SeS and Honda in a 4-2-4/4-2-3-1 formation and yet we couldn't do much.

The Viola are a good team, that's played together for a few years now. We will take time to gel. We're just 8 games into a season and our main midfield player is yet to start.

The result was frustrating and I'm sure there will be more work done on the training ground. But you guys make it sound like we're back fighting relegation.

Posted by: Danny Oct 27 2014, 12:26 PM

Actually Jack the only one who lost the overall plot last night was Han. I was raging about that result alone but not the season, and while I have concerns about Pippo (as do others like X), it's only fair I'm annoyed about dropped two points which lost us third place compared with sixth.

Perhaps a little less melodramatic old chap?

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 27 2014, 12:35 PM

MvG has been available for two games now, so has Saponara. Pippo had everyone available for this game bar Montolivo, there's no excuses.

Bonaventura, even Honda would be more appropriate in midfield than in attack. He's no winger no matter how Pippo desperately tries to pull him as one.



Oh yes, in the end, when everyone was tired. Even so, we did play much better the first 10 minutes after Bonaventura came in, but that didn't last for long cos the end of the game was approaching and players started getting tired.



The Viola are a good team that's playing like crap this season and miss their two best strikers.

And you make it sound like our team is a completely new one. Bar Alex and Menex, everyone else was available from last season. It's been five months since Pippo took over this team, we should start seeing results by now, but instead we keep seeing the same mistakes being made over and over again. It's frustrating as hell.



The competition for 3rd place this season is more open than any other time. We really have a possibility because the other teams are all very inconsistent. If we keep losing points like this and playing like crap, of course people are gonna be pissed.

We should have won last night, but we didn't and played a very poor game. Stop making excuses.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 27 2014, 12:39 PM

Saved me a lot of typing. Agreed on all accounts.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 27 2014, 12:46 PM

Giving Torres and Bonaventura 10 minutes at the end when we where seemingly not inclined to do anything but pass the ball around is not going to do anything.

You're missing the point jack, NONE of us want both Poli AND Muntari on the pitch, least of all when you already have De Jong as the anchor.

Neither Poli, nor Muntari are creative but at least Poli is a bit more forward thinking and uses the ball better

Our point is, playing both De Jong and Poli at the same time is already a bit of a stretch, playing both of them plus Muntari is overkill to the nth degree

Just ridiculous that Fiorentina had more talent in midfield than s last night, most teams in Serie A do

We're playing a 4-3-3 a formation heavily reliant on the midfield to create and we're playing 3 players who do not have a creative bone in their body FFS. Add to that you have the tactical liability that is Muntari and you have the disaster we see week in week out in midfield

Fact is our midfield needs to be contrived of a CM a DM and another CM, the 2 guys on the side need to be creative/smart on the ball, neither Poli, nor Muntari are that which is why they shouldn't be playing next to our DM; De Jong

Also, don't tell us he doesn't have options, we have everyone fit and ready to play aside from Monto, he has options, he's choosing to ignore them to go the conservative route that's mostly doing more harm than good


Where did I lose the plot?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 27 2014, 12:48 PM

How you guys all agree with Danny giving MDS a 1 and then nit pick about Zapata is beyond me. Funny, funny.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 27 2014, 12:49 PM

Yep, that's child's logic, but for Jack somehow it's rocket science.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 27 2014, 12:52 PM

Simple: DS played like sh*t, Zapata didn't.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 27 2014, 12:54 PM

What do you mean?

I didn't agree with the rating per se, I thought he was defensively okay but other aspects of his game are worrying me atm and I think he needs to be benched for one or two games, that's why I agree with Danny's general view (didn't want to criticise his rating because he gets touchy about those, note the sarcastic ok when I didn't agree about Zapata)

I think he mostly deserved a 5.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 27 2014, 12:57 PM

For me, making consistent costly/potentially costly mistakes balances out with them

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 27 2014, 01:17 PM

This would be my rating as well. But you said "I lost you with Zapata" therefore clearly agreeing that MDS should get a 1.

Posted by: acid911 Oct 27 2014, 01:26 PM

Brilliant post!

Esteem, self respect, notable progress in playing style, team unity, the right balance in selection, and more importantly a positive game plan, doesn't require $$$, and should be the minimum required from a coach. I, for one, don't care too much about the results, but these factors above.

Because, whoever gets this right, is going to start winning respect and start winning points. Maybe we have filled our squad with a few duds that don't care about the shirt they're wearing, or maybe it's the coach that has failed to motivate and gel together the team. But play like this, and we're going to end up nowhere.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 27 2014, 01:28 PM

As I said, I didn't want to criticise his ratings, but I personally don't' agree with the over exaggerated 1 rating, for me to think someone is a 1 or 2 they'd have to have done something terrible along with a seriously shambolic display.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 27 2014, 02:47 PM

Well, it wasn't as clear as now

Anyway, new poll is http://www.milanfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8456&st=0&gopid=399057&#entry399057

Posted by: Danny Oct 27 2014, 03:06 PM

I said ok because I respect your opinion. I just couldn't agree less with it and felt it was better to not bother debating. I still feel that way.

Posted by: Danny Oct 27 2014, 03:09 PM

Getting a few criticisms of my 1. But I stand by that. I don't think he made a single interception or useful pass all night. Constantly fouling, never making a decent run, and on the rare occasions he got forward, did nothing except lose the ball. And giving the ball straight to Ilicic for their goal. If that's not worthy of basically the lowest score, what is?

This guy has been going downhill for well over a season now.

I truly excused him last season based on him playing on the right, but I think in general I was just plain wrong. It's sad, given many saw him as the future of the club, and a future captain, but his form is just so painful right now.

I plead with Pippo to start Armero on Wednesday.

Posted by: Danny Oct 27 2014, 03:10 PM

We agree on Abate, De Jong...er...Bona? Honda?

Let's work with that!

Posted by: Danny Oct 27 2014, 03:20 PM

It IS worth nothing, after the rage from yesterday subsides, that we have still lost just one match this season, and Pippo IS still a rookie manager who's doing far better than Allegri was by the end and Seedorf did overall.

3 draw, one defeat and 4 wins is still a very decent return given what we might have expected. Sure, we could be third and joyous right now rather than all the 'what ifs', but end of the day my personal target was always fifth, and if we get that, I'm very happy indeed.

But Pippo really needs to start playing his best team and picking players based on form and not reputation. He also needs to drop players who don't deserve to be playing.

For example, he rightly dropped Torres who's been diabolical, and that was ballsy. But Muntari and MDS need to follow, and he needs to pick the best team he has, removing as many of the out of form players as possible.

Right now, IMO, that's:

--------------Lopez

Abate-----Alex-----Zapata-----Armero

Bona---------De Jong------Van Ginkel

--------------Honda

-------Torres------Pazzo

1: Abbiati hasn't done much wrong really but Lopez should be our number one.

2: MDS needs dropping.

3: That midfield...yum.

4: Honda needs to be behind the strikers.

5: Pazzo deserves a shot - been a fringe player and can't do much worse than SES etc have.

6: Torres - perhaps he needs a strike partner, and also needs better service, which Honda can definitely provide.

It's sad, because for all the riches we supposedly have in attack, we actually don't. SES is woeful, Menez is disappointing and selfish, Torres has been ghastly but I've not given up on him yet, and the only one left is Pazzo.

Honda is the one who's been great recently. Worth pointing out he's actually joint second top scorer in Serie A with Tevez.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 27 2014, 04:41 PM

Torres and Pazzo together? Can you imagine the horror?

I agree about the rest. Honda should play in midfield, either as CM or AM doesn't matter. Just not on the wing. And one between SES and Menez should always start.

Posted by: Danny Oct 27 2014, 04:46 PM

I was desperate.



Yet neither is producing much. This is what I meant about us theoretically having an embarrassment of riches up front yet actually not.

If I had to pick between those two it would reluctantly be Menez. SES is horrendous in an attacking sense, and Menez has shown signs of form this season for sure, but really needs to improve his fitness, attitude, and use of the ball.

Right now he reminds me of Taarabt - who had all the tools to be world class but his attitude was selfish and he didn't use the ball well.

But it's really like choosing between shite and manure, at the moment.

That all said I do believe our attacking trio, whoever they are, suffers from the fucking terrible midfields Pippo keeps selecting.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 27 2014, 05:48 PM

I think this "didn't want to get into a debate" thing is so ridiculous! Why are we here if not to debate things pertaining to Milan? Should we all be here writing to ourselves while others either nod along or don't say anything if they don't agree?

As for SES and Menez, I really don't get why you guys are so constantly looking for reasons to come down on SES, he's been nothing great so far this season, I admit that, but he needs some consistent playing time, he hasn't started 2 games in a row now in months. Some people here are so fickle I just cannot stand it, with some players at the first sign of not doing well people or so gung ho about throwing them under the bus it's unbelievable, yet with others it's seemingly ignored.

If Muntari can start games for us for 3 seasons running, no matter what he does on the pitch then anyone deserves a good chance as well.

SES will get back into form, and he'll only do that if he's playing consistently, Menez is a bit of selfish git, but I still think he's a great asset to have on the team, he's just not a false 9 FFS so stop playing him there Pippo. Torres is coming off some nightmarish times at Chelsea, he's coming from a different league as well, he needs time to adapt, but either way, he's still important in how our attacking trio functions, imo, scoring or not, he needs to be starting.

This is just the same as with Honda when people were calling him nothing but a marketing tool 2 months into his first season with us.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 27 2014, 08:49 PM

I can say the same thing about you and Zapata. You always write him off beforehand, and even if he has an excellent performance you nitpick on his passing to put him down.



Will he now? Granted, the guy is only 22, but what has he shown so far to demand praise or even start games for that matter? Two assists and then nothing. Not to mention he was on an awful spell even before his injury.

Posted by: Danny Oct 27 2014, 09:20 PM

Dead horse and flog. Fruitless.



No one wants him in the team apart from himself and Pippo.



He's shown 4 months of form since January 2011. Not going to happen. After my brief foray into believing in him at the start of the season he's back to the failure he's become, alas.



He's played there 3 times. Two times with increasing success and then yesterday's disaster. Otherwise he's been on the wing.



Yes, I am giving Torres 'Honda time'. But Honda wasn't coming from bad form and loss of confidence.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 27 2014, 10:10 PM

I'm sorry, I thought a defender was not supposed to assist the opposition... Silly me. If this was Muntari you'd be harping along with me.

I'm not a Zapata hater, I think he's a decent player and a good back up guy, but to be starting? When he's such a liability? Nope, can't accept that personally, next time he makes a mistake and costs us a goal, we'll see how you feel about him, and there will be a next time, he does this thing with his passing once or twice in every game.

I think he will, getting constantly on his back won't change anything. Like I said, he hasn't played twice in a row in I don't know how many months. If he's given a decent run back in the side and still can't get back into form, then I'll agree with you, until then, I'm choosing to give him a chance


Um... And about 90% of other Milan fans want him in the side, just because you're impatient with players doesn't mean that everyone else is

Refer to what I said to x-off on that part

Honda was coming from the Russian league having been playing constant football since before the Confed Cup, add to that the massive culture shock, not knowing the language at all, etc

At least Torres is more familiar, he's Spanish in another Latin country, he won't need as much time to adapt, but it's been only a handful of games FFS, to write him off now would be ridiculous

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 27 2014, 10:18 PM

If Muntari offered good performances and messed up the occasional pass every now and then I wouldn't have anything against him.



And Rami is better? How exactly? Zapata is superior to him in every aspect. Positioning, anticipation, speed, even on the air he's better.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 27 2014, 10:24 PM

Occasional pass? Doing it in every game is not within the definition terms of occasionally

I think they're at the same level as defenders, Zapata can be a bit more spectacular at times with his sliding tackles but at least with Rami you don't have your heart in your throat every time he's on the ball and you're anticipating for him to do something stupid, like pass it right at the opposition or try to dribble out of defence and lose the ball

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 27 2014, 10:35 PM

He doesn't do it in every game. He did it a couple of times last night so you're blowing this out of proportion.

Rami can be very clueless when it comes to positioning, and that's fundamental for a defender. Plus he's shown that he can easily be beaten 1-on-1. I don't trust him.

Posted by: Danny Oct 27 2014, 11:08 PM

Valencia are in no position to get rid of quality defenders but they couldn't throw Rami at us fast enough.

Posted by: Danny Oct 27 2014, 11:11 PM

Those who want him in the side still see him as the kid who did so well for 4 months in 2012. That El-Sha is burned on their brain and they believe in him. His utter failure prior and since is literally erased and they just keep hoping. When he puts in another rubbish display they are more forgiving of him than they would be of others because 'he's the bright young hope of Milan ™'.



I...didn't? I just said I'm giving him Honda time. What are you arguing with?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 28 2014, 12:03 AM

I honestly don't see why SES should start. He's very ineffective and out of shape. What I don't get is why both SES and Honda don't get a much freer SS role behind the static Torres/Pazzo.

About the two; I think it's obvious that our team has a problem with classic strikers. Matri, Pazzini, to an extent Balo and now (it seems so far) Torres all failed playing this position. So we must not put the blame solely on Pazzini or Torres.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 28 2014, 01:12 AM

He shouldn't. But we need a SS in there, and him and Menez are the only ones we have. Obviously I'd pick Menez.

I wish Pippo would give the 4-3-1-2 a try. We don't have the appropriate wingers for 4-3-3 or even 4-2-3-1 for that matter. SES is poor, Honda is not a winger, and Bonaventura is much more effective in midfield. Only Menez can play there.

Posted by: Danny Oct 28 2014, 01:40 AM

No MvG?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 28 2014, 02:09 AM

What makes you have faith in MvG?

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 28 2014, 02:14 AM

I'm fine with either him or Poli.



Change, Fillipo. We need to try every option available.

Posted by: Danny Oct 28 2014, 03:07 AM

His quality of passing, composure and vision during the very brief 30 minute cameo he's had.

That and the fact that absolutely every Chelsea fan I know, and I know a lot, has raved endlessly about him.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 28 2014, 08:45 AM

Rami was very solid last season, and these issues you're mentioning weren't there. He needs to get back into form yes, and I trust him more than Zapata

As for Zapata, he did it in pre-season vs Valencia (they scored off it), did it once against Lazio and did it trice over on Sunday, and I can mention many more that happened over the course of his time with us, the most clear one still in my mind was the one against Barca last season when we were ahead and doing well and Zapata passes it to no one, Busquets recovered the ball, passed it to Messi and scored


That had nothing to do with his abilities as a footballer, he had issues with the coach and was frozen out

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 28 2014, 10:56 AM

Yes, he wasn't bad last season, but he still had those flaws I mentioned. Look at Diego Costa's goals against us and see how he completely lost him. Rami isn't very brilliant tactically, whereas Zapata is very smart and has the skills to complement his awareness. Sure, his passing does annoy me, but if he maintains a high level of defending then I don't mind. There are other things I value in a defender than his passing abilities.

Posted by: Danny Oct 28 2014, 12:00 PM

Han's pro-Rami anti-Zapata stance is tedious.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 28 2014, 01:35 PM

I advise you to watch some of the earlier games last season under Allegri (most importantly the goals we conceded) to see how great Zapata's positioning is. He's just as culpable at time of making errors. His positional awareness is just as average as Rami's


I'm not pro or anti anyone in this case. I just trust Rami more. Simple as that

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 28 2014, 02:08 PM

Perfect period you chose for as an example. Everyone was making mistakes back then, we were a mess.

Look, I'm not saying Zapata is the next Thiago Silva. He's prone to poor performances like everyone else in this team. But compared to Bonera and Rami, I trust him more. Everything I said earlier (about his speed, positioning, anticipation etc.), I have no doubt in my mind about any of that. You think differently, fine by me. Can we just drop this now?

Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 28 2014, 02:27 PM

I'm more inclined to agree with han on this. I don't think Zapata is necessarily an awful player, but he's just an athlete to me. The mental side of his game is lacking.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 28 2014, 02:56 PM

Yep, this.

I was about to add that his lack of positional sense at times is covered over because of his speed so he doesn't find it as difficult to recover.

@x-off best way to decide that is to see who Pippo plays for the next few games and how they perform.

For me it comes down to who the bigger liability is in our defence, and for me Zapata is that. Therefore Rami is mostly a lesser of 2 evils for me.

Imo, we shouldn't even be having this discussion as without a shadow of doubt in my mind, our 2 best CBs are Alex and Mexes, but Mexes seems to be completely exiled from the squad for some reason unknown to us, so the second best choice for me is Rami

Posted by: Danny Oct 28 2014, 03:04 PM

Me and X V Han and Kurt.

We want the blue corner.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 28 2014, 03:50 PM

That looks more like the twilight zone as that combo NEVER happens here

Posted by: Danny Oct 28 2014, 03:56 PM

Ha, fair point!

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 29 2014, 11:25 AM

Pippo talking about 3 to 4 changes for the game tonight.

I spy with my little eye - BONERA!!!!!!