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AC Milan - Milanfan.com _ Transfers _ Winter Transfers 2015

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 2 2014, 10:00 PM


Posted by: han2503 Sep 2 2014, 10:08 PM

Milan channel have already reported that Suso could come during January

We usually do some good business in the winter (mostly because we're in deep sh!t by that point in the season biggrin.gif)

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 2 2014, 10:19 PM

Hopefully we'll be able to offload some players too like Zaccardo and Essien and loan Niang and Albertazzi.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 3 2014, 09:05 AM

QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Sep 2 2014, 10:19 PM) *
Hopefully we'll be able to offload some players too like Zaccardo and Essien and loan Niang and Albertazzi.

I really wanted Niang to go on loan, he really needs it. I saw that he's improved in the pre-season games, his finishing is still woeful and he won't get the time to refine that with us. He needs to be playing regularly as a CF not a winger.

Albertazzi maybe we can sell him off when he sees that he won't be getting any minutes (he's already refused a loan move this summer) but I can't see us offloading either Essien or Zaccardo, Zaccardo it looks like we'll be stuck with until his contract ends, and with Essien there's probably no other team willing to pay him what we are. He had offers from Turkey this summer but didn't want to go there.

Posted by: Danny Sep 3 2014, 01:17 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Sep 3 2014, 08:05 AM) *
I really wanted Niang to go on loan, he really needs it. I saw that he's improved in the pre-season games, his finishing is still woeful and he won't get the time to refine that with us. He needs to be playing regularly as a CF not a winger.


Have to respect your 180 on this. A year or two ago you had him as worse than cancer, but you've opened your eyes a little to his potential.

I do agree he needs a lot of fine tuning, but there is talent there, and his attitude has matured considerably.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 3 2014, 01:31 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Sep 3 2014, 01:17 PM) *
Have to respect your 180 on this. A year or two ago you had him as worse than cancer, but you've opened your eyes a little to his potential.

I do agree he needs a lot of fine tuning, but there is talent there, and his attitude has matured considerably.

Yeah, couldn't stand him, his attitude, thinking he's better than he is, trying to emulate Balo. It was just totally off-putting.

But I liked what I saw in pre-season, although there's still so much to work on, his aiming and what I call pushing the power button until it's red every time he shoots/crosses/passes

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 3 2014, 01:33 PM

Nah, Niang is a lost case. Sorry to disappoint you guys, but I'm not gonna shift my opinion on that one.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 3 2014, 01:43 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Sep 3 2014, 01:33 PM) *
Nah, Niang is a lost case. Sorry to disappoint you guys, but I'm not gonna shift my opinion on that one.

I'm personally on the fence about him now. I'm not on the total negative side like I was before pre-season, and I'm not someone who thinks he'll be some amazing player.

I really wanted to see him go out on loan to a Serie A side, see how he does there. Plus he needs to always be played as a CF not a winger, it's ridiculous that he's used that way when he's obviously got the characteristics and the physique of a pure CF. Once again, Allegri and his incredible player positioning at work right there

Posted by: KillerMax Sep 4 2014, 12:33 PM

So... Jesus Fernandez Saez, Suso wacko.gif

Can anyone tell us who exactly is this guy? Has anyone seen him play? How good/ well rated is he? Apparently as han also mentioned before http://www.football-italia.net/55477/milan-eyeing-suso-steal and he could come either for a small amount this winter or on a free for the next as his contract is expiring. Is he worth the trouble?

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 4 2014, 01:45 PM

Yeah, apparently Galliani is on the move for him. Don't know much about the guy, honestly. He's a left-footed right winger, so he would fit nicely into Pippo's schemes.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 4 2014, 04:09 PM

Hear hear:

QUOTE
Zaccardo asked and obtained from Milan the salaries for July and August. Zaccardo asked and obtained from Parma the salaries for July and August. Thus, he would have received four salaries for two months (!). The deal (for the swap with Biabiany) fell through when Zaccardo also asked €500,000 as severance package from Milan

http://www.spaziomilan.it/2014/09/ordine-zaccardo-avrebbe-preso-stipendi-per-mesi/


The source is very reliable.

Wow, what a greedy, pathetic mofo! Makes me detest him even more.

EDIT 1: But in a way, it worked for the best, as I prefer Bonaventura much more than Biabiany.

EDIT 2: Also, for those who didn't know, Galliani snatched Bonaventura in the last five hours as he was about to sign for Inter. He was in Milan for signing the contract, and when he was told of our offer, he changed mind immediately and signed for us. biggrin.gif


Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 4 2014, 04:34 PM

I was under the impression they couldn't afford him until Guarin left. Which he didn't, so they couldn't.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 4 2014, 04:51 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Sep 4 2014, 04:34 PM) *
I was under the impression they couldn't afford him until Guarin left. Which he didn't, so they couldn't.


Haven't read that side of the story.

Posted by: Forza Milan! Sep 5 2014, 01:23 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 4 2014, 05:51 PM) *
Haven't read that side of the story.

I have read something similar (the Inter deal was falling apart so Atalanta went to Milan). Do not remember the source (sorry).

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 6 2014, 11:53 AM

Apparently that's what Inter's SD Ausilio said ("We had blocked Bonaventura for some time, but when we couldn't sell Guarin we called Atalanta and told them they could offer the player to other buyers"). So much for Galliani's theatrics. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 6 2014, 12:22 PM

Why should I believe an Interista on this matter?

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 6 2014, 01:10 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Sep 6 2014, 12:22 PM) *
Why should I believe an Interista on this matter?


Because Galliani is a blatant liar.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 6 2014, 05:30 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Sep 6 2014, 01:22 PM) *
Why should I believe an Interista on this matter?

Inter had mentioned not being able to sign him until Guarin left before we even got involved. So it's not like it's something they made up after the fact.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 8 2014, 11:45 AM

So according to these, we increased Muntari's wage. So we have to suffer an additional year of him on a bigger wage now.



This management will never learn!!

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 8 2014, 12:02 PM

I seriously doubt this is accurate. Zaccardo also got an increase.

Btw. did we sing new contracts with de Jong and Abate? Or will we see them leaving for free coming this summer?

Posted by: han2503 Sep 8 2014, 01:30 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Sep 8 2014, 12:02 PM) *
I seriously doubt this is accurate. Zaccardo also got an increase.

Btw. did we sing new contracts with de Jong and Abate? Or will we see them leaving for free coming this summer?

Well Gazzatta are usually pretty accurate with their numbers...

No so far nothing about their contracts, hopefully they'll renew during the season, it would be stupid to let either one of them go for free as they're 2 of the very few players on our squad that are actually worth any money on the market

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 8 2014, 02:20 PM

It's gotta be a mistake about Muntari. It has to.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 8 2014, 02:25 PM

We are also partially paying wages of some of the players we loaned so the total number is actully more than that.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 8 2014, 02:26 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 8 2014, 05:20 PM) *
It's gotta be a mistake about Muntari. It has to.

Even his mother couldn't believe it.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 8 2014, 06:35 PM

http://www.football-italia.net/55649/suso-milan-%E2%80%98agreed%E2%80%99

Posted by: Danny Oct 7 2014, 03:25 PM

Rumours linking Khedira. Near end of his deal and we think we'll get him for a knock down price in January. Discussions mooted to take place when we play them in the upcoming friendly.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 7 2014, 03:34 PM

I think he'll go to Arsenal.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 7 2014, 04:41 PM

Yeah if Khedira's available on the cheap, he'll have a tonne of options. Would be great if we could though.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 7 2014, 05:51 PM

I never liked him in the first place, especially if this means we'll be losing de Jong.

Posted by: acid911 Oct 7 2014, 06:33 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Oct 7 2014, 10:51 PM) *
I never liked him in the first place, especially if this means we'll be losing de Jong.

Yeah, never liked him much either. sleep.gif He's just good enough, not particularly adept at one particular task like some of the other big names in his position. Would rather see him go to Manchester United seeing as they desperately need a defensive mid. As an added plus point, that should keep them off of de Jong.

Posted by: KillerMax Oct 8 2014, 02:25 AM

QUOTE (acid911 @ Oct 7 2014, 12:33 PM) *
Yeah, never liked him much either. sleep.gif He's just good enough, not particularly adept at one particular task like some of the other big names in his position. Would rather see him go to Manchester United seeing as they desperately need a defensive mid. As an added plus point, that should keep them off of de Jong.


Smart!

Posted by: Danny Oct 9 2014, 11:21 AM

Arsenal trying to sign Abate but he looks like he'll sign an extension with us.

One we do NOT want to lose.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 9 2014, 09:16 PM

Apparently we're interested in Uchida, whose contract -surprise, surprise- expires in June.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 9 2014, 10:22 PM

Sell Abate, bring in Uchida on a free. Sounds about right.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 9 2014, 10:53 PM

Maybe he would come as a backup. Who knows; Milan probably want to make Honda feel better on the right. Uchida surely isn't first team material.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 20 2014, 04:04 PM

Galliani: "Suso's contract is about to expire, we'll see if he wants to change shirt or stay where he is. Khedira would be a good addition but he earns a lot"

Source: Mediaset

Posted by: Danny Oct 20 2014, 06:43 PM

Khedira will go to either Arsenal or Chelsea.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 20 2014, 06:56 PM

I honestly don't think we need someone like Khedira. We need a distributor, someone with vision and a good pass more. If this cannot be found, then at least a classic organizer.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 20 2014, 08:04 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Oct 20 2014, 06:56 PM) *
I honestly don't think we need someone like Khedira. We need a distributor, someone with vision and a good pass more. If this cannot be found, then at least a classic organizer.

Agreed

Khedira would only be a good addition if we were going to sell De Jong.

Btw, is there still no word of his and Abate's contracts? It's ridiculous that we're approaching the end of October and this issue still hasn't been dealt with. 2 of our best players could leave on a free yet they don't seem so concerned about it...

Posted by: Danny Oct 20 2014, 08:52 PM

We need someone when De Jong isn't available. All we have is Essien.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 20 2014, 09:39 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 20 2014, 08:52 PM) *
We need someone when De Jong isn't available. All we have is Essien.

You can't bring in Khedira as cover for De Jong!

If Khedira comes he'd be a starter, it's either him or De Jong imo as we can't afford both contracts, not to mention Muntari can play the anchor role as well, imo it's the only position he should be allowed to play

Posted by: Danny Oct 20 2014, 10:03 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Oct 20 2014, 08:39 PM) *
You can't bring in Khedira as cover for De Jong!


He's cover now.

QUOTE
If Khedira comes he'd be a starter, it's either him or De Jong imo as we can't afford both contracts, not to mention Muntari can play the anchor role as well, imo it's the only position he should be allowed to play


Khedira isn't first choice for club or country.

But it's moot, he's going to Chelsea or Arsenal.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 20 2014, 10:12 PM

Khedira is an excellent midfielder. He'd be first choice anywhere.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 21 2014, 11:01 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 20 2014, 10:03 PM) *
He's cover now.



Khedira isn't first choice for club or country.

But it's moot, he's going to Chelsea or Arsenal.

He's cover at Real and the German NT

When Milan have the same kind of abundance in riches as those 2 teams he can come in as cover.

The fact is we cannot afford to keep both him and De Jong

And anyway I think the point is moot because as you so rightfully said, he'll be going to an English side as we can't afford him

Posted by: Danny Oct 21 2014, 11:43 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Oct 20 2014, 09:12 PM) *
Khedira is an excellent midfielder. He'd be first choice anywhere.


Except at Real and for his country tongue.gif

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 21 2014, 12:44 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 21 2014, 11:43 AM) *
Except at Real and for his country tongue.gif


I should have said anywhere else. And for his country? He's always been first choice. unsure.gif

Posted by: Danny Oct 21 2014, 02:35 PM

I stand corrected on his country.

Posted by: Danny Oct 21 2014, 02:35 PM

City wish to sign Honda in January for 18M Euros.

They can go f*ck themselves.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 21 2014, 03:38 PM

That's a decent amount of money. I'd really consider the offer, but I doubt it's true.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 21 2014, 03:47 PM

I'd consider it only if we signed someone like Shaqiri.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 21 2014, 06:10 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Oct 21 2014, 03:47 PM) *
I'd consider it only if we signed someone like Shaqiri.

18m is nothing to this management as you wouldn't be taking it in the context of a transfer budget put plugging up losses.

So no thanks to the 18m

Posted by: Danny Oct 21 2014, 11:03 PM

We agree on something else! Yay! smile.gif

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 21 2014, 11:26 PM

Better keep a list. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 22 2014, 06:41 AM

F@Ck off. It's not about 18 million, Honda is an asset making us money in Far East Asia. We've had at least 2 Japanese companies sign up as sponsors for us post his arrival and this is without his shirt sales. Heard unverified rumours that he's paid for his wages this season with shirt sales. Giving him the #10 might have been a marketing masterstroke. I know I'm getting his shirt.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2014, 11:54 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 21 2014, 11:03 PM) *
We agree on something else! Yay! smile.gif

wub.gif friends.gif hi5.gif budhug.gif dreamyeyesf.gif

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Oct 21 2014, 11:26 PM) *
Better keep a list. biggrin.gif

laugh.gif

QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Oct 22 2014, 06:41 AM) *
F@Ck off. It's not about 18 million, Honda is an asset making us money in Far East Asia. We've had at least 2 Japanese companies sign up as sponsors for us post his arrival and this is without his shirt sales. Heard unverified rumours that he's paid for his wages this season with shirt sales. Giving him the #10 might have been a marketing masterstroke. I know I'm getting his shirt.

Agreed totally, he's a major asset to us marketing wise, even more so now that he's killing it atm on the pitch, easily one of our top players this season. Honda is worth at least double that because of all the positive elements he brings when looking at the entire picture and not just football

Posted by: Danny Oct 22 2014, 01:07 PM

In terms of market value, he's giving us at least 60 million new fans given his icon status back in Japan. Add the other Asian markets and, seriously, we've got the biggest Asian footballer around. That's a billion+ audience. That's priceless.

In terms of monetary value, to us he's worth easily £100M. And I'm not being silly. In terms of ability of course he's not the world's best, but on a financial level, he's easily our most valuable asset now. By a long long way.


Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 22 2014, 04:26 PM

Hmh interesting numbers. Puts up a very important marketing perspective.

Posted by: Forza Milan! Oct 24 2014, 10:24 PM

Anyone know what's the latest with Abate? Sounds like Liverpool is after him now, would hate to lose him ...

Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 24 2014, 11:11 PM

http://www.football-italia.net/57619/abate-milan-life

I think it's just a matter of time. I'm more worried about De Jong's extension.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 25 2014, 08:27 AM

QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ Oct 24 2014, 10:24 PM) *
Anyone know what's the latest with Abate? Sounds like Liverpool is after him now, would hate to lose him ...

Nothing as of yet. I really cannot understand why the management are dragging this out, neither him or De Jong want ludicrous amounts of money, Abate only wants something like 2m per season which is only a minor increase from what he's currently getting and De Jong said he wants to stay as well.

Just ridiculous that they would allow their contracts to run down. These are important 1st team players who have so far this season been 2 of our best performers. Just inconceivable, especially when you take into consideration that they rushed to renew Muntari's contract this summer and gave him a pay hike.

Sometimes that senile tag really fits with Galliani, the man has completely lost it and the more time he stays the further he'll drag this club down. Too bad Silvio is equally as old and senile as he is to recognise the damage Galliani is doing to his club

QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Oct 24 2014, 11:11 PM) *
http://www.football-italia.net/57619/abate-milan-life

I think it's just a matter of time. I'm more worried about De Jong's extension.

Players can say that all they want, but if their club is reluctant to give them a new contract they have no choice but to go elsewhere.

The fact that we're not in seemingly any rush to renew their deals mostly shows that we don't view them as important as they truly are to this team. A club who values a player rushes to renew their contract to confirm their position with the club, look at Juve Pogba still has 2 more years and they still renewed his deal now ASAP because not only is he a top player that costs a lot of money, but he's also an invaluable cog in their midfield

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 25 2014, 09:39 AM

QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Oct 25 2014, 02:11 AM) *
http://www.football-italia.net/57619/abate-milan-life

I think it's just a matter of time. I'm more worried about De Jong's extension.


Not a nice thing to know, when a player says I'm Milan for life he is bound to be sold within 6 months.

Posted by: Danny Oct 25 2014, 12:34 PM

Actually Abate's agent said he himself (Abate) is the one taking his time, not just the club. The offer isn't available just yet but there's apparently 'no rush' and he will be signing such a deal.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 25 2014, 01:06 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 25 2014, 12:34 PM) *
Actually Abate's agent said he himself (Abate) is the one taking his time, not just the club. The offer isn't available just yet but there's apparently 'no rush' and he will be signing such a deal.

Abate's agent is Raiola, the definition of shady. No one should be taking his time with this, the club should just put an offer on the table and have both abate and De Jong sign

Posted by: acid911 Oct 25 2014, 04:04 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Oct 25 2014, 06:06 PM) *
Abate's agent is Raiola, the definition of shady. No one should be taking his time with this, the club should just put an offer on the table and have both abate and De Jong sign

+∞ sleep.gif

Posted by: Danny Oct 25 2014, 10:04 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Oct 25 2014, 12:06 PM) *
Abate's agent is Raiola, the definition of shady. No one should be taking his time with this, the club should just put an offer on the table and have both abate and De Jong sign


I do agree, but the point is it's not all in Milan's court re: blame.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 09:54 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 25 2014, 10:04 PM) *
I do agree, but the point is it's not all in Milan's court re: blame.

Abate has repeated multiple times now that he wants to stay/renew his contract. I seriously do not understand why they would let it drag out through to January.

Posted by: Danny Oct 27 2014, 10:05 PM

We're linked with Isco or Illara from Real in January on loan.

So there's another couple we can stick on the bench and sub Poli off for on 67 minutes.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 27 2014, 10:13 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 27 2014, 10:05 PM) *
We're linked with Isco or Illara from Real in January on loan.

So there's another couple we can stick on the bench and sub Poli off for on 67 minutes.

Funny, but the sad thing is that you're probably right...

Illara I'm not so sure about, I don't know, Real paid a bucket load of money for him but he's never seemed to get a decent run in the side.

Isco would be a dream to have in the side, can't see Carlo letting him go, he's the type of player he really likes

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 27 2014, 10:20 PM

Not happening, but even if it happens, what's the point in having a player for five months knowing you'll lose him afterwards?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 27 2014, 11:09 PM

The point is securing CL football.

Posted by: Danny Oct 28 2014, 01:04 AM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Oct 27 2014, 10:09 PM) *
The point is securing CL football.


A team endowed with Bona and MvG COULD achieve that but for God knows what reason Pippo refuses to start either of them.

And until yesterday refused to start Zapata alongside Alex for 6 matches.

I just feel like we get in some good players but they just fill the bench and it's the same old players Pippo (or whoever) starts.

Which negates the 'he hasn't built his own team' argument - he has, he just isn't using half the players he got. Only Alex and Menez of his signings started. No Lopez, Armero, Agazzi (ok ok, I give you that one) MvG, Bona or Torres.

Posted by: Danny Oct 31 2014, 04:33 PM

http://forzaitalianfootball.com/2014/10/ac-milan-look-to-offload-mexes-in-january/

QUOTE
AC Milan will look to sell defender Philippe Mexes in January, rather than let him leave when his contract expires at the end of the season.

The 32 year old Frenchman is the joint-highest earner at the club, and the Rossoneri are keen to release the defender off the payroll sooner if they can.

SkySportItalia report that Milan’s priority will be to try to find a buyer for the Frenchman, whose €4 million salary is putting a financial burden on the club.

Mexes is yet to make an appearance for Milan this season, falling behind Daniele Bonera, Alex and Adil Rami in the pecking order.


He's finished at Milan.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 1 2014, 01:06 AM

Yep. And in sad fashion.

Posted by: Danny Nov 3 2014, 01:44 AM

I can really see Isco, Illa or Khedira wanting to sign up at the San Siro in January now!

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Nov 3 2014, 10:57 PM

would love for reinforcements such as those and you never know, something could be in the works.

Think teams like Madrid, Barca, Chelsea, City, PSG and the likes have acquired a lot of quality talent but are not getting room because of their marquee players being selected. Enter Galliani, there really could be a deal of the sorts, especially with FFP compliance shifting the equation.

Yet would the aforementioned players prefer EPL/Bundeslig to Serie A, that IMO should be the stumbling block. Otherwise, I wouldn't put it far from Galliani to pull something off.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 4 2014, 11:46 AM

Mediaset says we'll get Suso in January, Pazzini could leave for the MLS, and that we'll return MVG to Chelsea...

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 4 2014, 12:06 PM

Interesting. What's happening with van Ginkel?

Posted by: Danny Nov 4 2014, 03:12 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 4 2014, 11:06 AM) *
Interesting. What's happening with van Ginkel?


My guess is Pippo doesn't like him.

Can't be ability because he's excellent - this is undisputed fact. He'd rather play Muntari and MvG would rather leave - he's here for playing time.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 5 2014, 12:06 AM

How many times did you see him actually play?

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 5 2014, 12:11 AM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 5 2014, 12:06 AM) *
How many times did you see him actually play?


I don't think he has seen him play, but I remember him saying that a few Chelsea supporters had great things to say about MVG.

Posted by: Danny Nov 5 2014, 12:11 AM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 4 2014, 11:06 PM) *
How many times did you see him actually play?


Same as you. He looked very very good. But my full case is based on dozens of Chelsea fans that I know rating him really highly indeed.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 5 2014, 02:00 AM

I don't know. My rule is to see and then judge. But his snub of Milan earlier during the transfer period may have had it's share. Perhaps the boy is a bit cocky and thinks he's above Milan.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 5 2014, 07:03 AM

He's never getting in the Chelsea side. He'll be sold.

Posted by: Danny Nov 5 2014, 09:32 AM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 5 2014, 01:00 AM) *
I don't know. My rule is to see and then judge. But his snub of Milan earlier during the transfer period may have had it's share. Perhaps the boy is a bit cocky and thinks he's above Milan.


Above Milan? Right now so are Genoa, Sampdoria and Lazio.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 5 2014, 02:07 PM

Van Ginkel's agent:

"The premises at Milan were good. Marco started the season from the bench, and we expected him to start playing once he had adapted to the new league and country. But even after recovering from the injury he hasn't played at all. We're not happy and this goes against any logic.

We've been clear to the club that this was not the agreement we made when Marco decided to come on loan. There was no need to go to Italy if the kid was going to do nothing. I would understand this treatment if Van Ginkel was crap, but someone like him would do more than well in this Milan! Chelsea so far doesn't want to intervene, but they will if the situation persists"

http://www.gazzetta.it/Calciomercato/05-11-2014/agente-van-ginkel-contro-milan-basta-ci-siamo-stufati-panchina-calciomercato-chelsea-90949134103.shtml

Saint words.

Posted by: Danny Nov 5 2014, 10:41 PM

He started tonight, and I considered it a gross insult that he finally starts in a meaningless friendly.

He's a fine player and I think Pippo's treatment of him has been fucking diabolical tbh.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 5 2014, 11:41 PM

Diabolical? Oh come one.

Posted by: Danny Nov 6 2014, 02:01 AM

His agent suggests it, it has p*ssed the player and Chelsea off, and it's sure as hell disgusted me.

So yes, diabolical.

Posted by: dst Nov 6 2014, 03:31 AM

That's bs, the really good players don't go out on loan, they play on their own team.

Posted by: Danny Nov 6 2014, 10:30 AM

QUOTE (dst @ Nov 6 2014, 02:31 AM) *
That's bs, the really good players don't go out on loan, they play on their own team.


*cough* Falcao *cough*

Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 6 2014, 10:40 AM

He's looked so off at United so far.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 6 2014, 11:49 AM

QUOTE (dst @ Nov 6 2014, 03:31 AM) *
That's bs, the really good players don't go out on loan, they play on their own team.


You think Mourinho will prefer him over Matic and Ramires? He's only 21, coming from an injury. He only decided to join us on loan so he could grow as a player, not warm the bench which he could have very well done at Chelsea.

Posted by: Danny Nov 6 2014, 01:01 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Nov 6 2014, 09:40 AM) *
He's looked so off at United so far.


True, ACL's never see the player come back to what they were.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 6 2014, 01:02 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 6 2014, 12:49 PM) *
You think Mourinho will prefer him over Matic and Ramires? He's only 21, coming from an injury. He only decided to join us on loan so he could grow as a player, not warm the bench which he could have very well done at Chelsea.

Fabregas also plays in the "2", so that's Matic, Ramires and Cesc he's behind.

Posted by: Danny Nov 6 2014, 01:02 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 6 2014, 10:49 AM) *
You think Mourinho will prefer him over Matic and Ramires? He's only 21, coming from an injury. He only decided to join us on loan so he could grow as a player, not warm the bench which he could have very well done at Chelsea.


Exactly. It's no wonder he and his agent are disgusted with his time so far at Milan. It's not like we have a midfield abundant with world class talent. He, De Jong and Bona would have been, for our level, great.

But it's never bloody happened.

For whatever reason, Pippo fancies neither MvG or Bona.

Posted by: dst Nov 6 2014, 07:55 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Nov 6 2014, 10:30 AM) *
*cough* Falcao *cough*

Different cases, Falcao is an established player. I didn't make this clear but I was talking about prospects (not that it normally happens with established players anyway). I can't remember a team loaning out a youngster that was considered a big thing. Yes, teams have made mistakes. Madrid and Barcelona in particular have in the past sold young players they then had to buy back when they came good but when a youngster is destined to be a big thing teams keep him and actually play him sooner rather than later.

I honestly can't think of any such cases, please name some players that I might be forgetting.

Posted by: Danny Nov 6 2014, 10:36 PM

Before I do, bear in mind the Chelsea midfield. Matic, Fabregas, with Mikel in backup. Very VERY hard for a youth player to even get on the bench in that team.

But examples of good young players loaned out to get game time? A certain Ignazio Abate...spent 6 years out on loan before he became our first choice RB.

Posted by: dst Nov 7 2014, 12:18 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Nov 6 2014, 10:36 PM) *
But examples of good young players loaned out to get game time? A certain Ignazio Abate...spent 6 years out on loan before he became our first choice RB.

Exactly! tongue.gif

Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 7 2014, 12:34 AM

Wilshere at Bolton, Sturridge at Bolton are 2 that come to mind.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 7 2014, 02:07 AM

Marchisio. On loan to Empoli (2007-2008).

Posted by: Danny Nov 7 2014, 02:30 AM

QUOTE (dst @ Nov 6 2014, 11:18 PM) *
Exactly! tongue.gif


Point is you're wrong smile.gif

Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 7 2014, 09:17 AM

Lukaku at West Brom and then Everton. Beckham went to Preston.

that's 5 examples, dst, is this enough yet? tongue.gif

Posted by: Danny Nov 7 2014, 11:45 AM

Team MF 1 - 0 DST

Posted by: dst Nov 7 2014, 03:46 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Nov 7 2014, 12:34 AM) *
Wilshere at Bolton, Sturridge at Bolton are 2 that come to mind.

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 7 2014, 02:07 AM) *
Marchisio. On loan to Empoli (2007-2008).

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Nov 7 2014, 09:17 AM) *
Lukaku at West Brom and then Everton. Beckham went to Preston.

that's 5 examples, dst, is this enough yet? tongue.gif

QUOTE (Danny @ Nov 7 2014, 11:45 AM) *
Team MF 1 - 0 DST

Well first of all we're talking about a player that could possibly, as some people that have seen him play one and a half games tell us, make it at Chelsea and you're giving me two examples of players that didn't. Sturridge and Lukaku. I'm pretty sure MvG can achieve that feat.
I don't remember what happened with Beckham.
I'll take Wilshere and Marchisio as their case is similar. Still, as you might notice all these players stayed in the league their loaner team play at. That's not by chance, you'd want a young player to play in the league you're competing in and get used to it and you'd especially not want your player playing in his third different league in three seasons as is the case with MvG. Also, none of them came off an ACL injury.

I could take all of them as good examples and my point still would just change to it's rare for that to happen.

Honestly, give me one reason not to believe that post-surgery MvG is a hyped-up nothing rather than a great talent that Inzaghi refuses to play because they have different tastes in music or something. There's nothing you could say to change my view of him. Until MvG actually plays again and is good he's a big fat nobody.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 7 2014, 03:49 PM

QUOTE (dst @ Nov 7 2014, 04:46 PM) *
Also, none of them came off an ACL injury.

Why's that an issue? You seem to pretend it's not for Glass Rose.

Posted by: dst Nov 7 2014, 03:58 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Nov 7 2014, 03:49 PM) *
Why's that an issue? You seem to pretend it's not for Glass Rose.

I'm not saying it should be an issue, I'm saying it could be. And that's because MvG is not playing. Rose is and is actually looking good.

I'm supposed to believe that a player who has appeared in a couple of games for Chelsea and supposedly looked good has had this unquestionable talent of his not affected by an ACL injury and despite that is getting held back by Inzaghi for whatever reason.

Why would I believe that? I can't and I won't until he actually plays and plays well.

Posted by: dst Nov 7 2014, 04:00 PM

Basically none of us knows if he's good at all, none of us knows how (if at all) his injury has affected him yet this is still somehow an issue!!

Posted by: dst Nov 7 2014, 04:01 PM

**** MvG I hate him already! biggrin.gif

Posted by: Danny Nov 7 2014, 04:03 PM

QUOTE (dst @ Nov 7 2014, 02:46 PM) *
Well first of all we're talking about a player that could possibly, as some people that have seen him play one and a half games tell us, make it at Chelsea and you're giving me two examples of players that didn't. Sturridge and Lukaku. I'm pretty sure MvG can achieve that feat.
I don't remember what happened with Beckham.
I'll take Wilshere and Marchisio as their case is similar. Still, as you might notice all these players stayed in the league their loaner team play at. That's not by chance, you'd want a young player to play in the league you're competing in and get used to it and you'd especially not want your player playing in his third different league in three seasons as is the case with MvG. Also, none of them came off an ACL injury.

I could take all of them as good examples and my point still would just change to it's rare for that to happen.

Honestly, give me one reason not to believe that post-surgery MvG is a hyped-up nothing rather than a great talent that Inzaghi refuses to play because they have different tastes in music or something. There's nothing you could say to change my view of him. Until MvG actually plays again and is good he's a big fat nobody.


All I can say is the 30 minutes he actually got was some of the best midfield play we've produced all season.

I'm guessing you didn't see it.

Posted by: dst Nov 7 2014, 04:13 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Nov 7 2014, 04:03 PM) *
All I can say is the 30 minutes he actually got was some of the best midfield play we've produced all season.

I'm guessing you didn't see it.

OK I'm sorry I thought we were basing this on nothing but it's actually 30 minutes. This changes everything!

No I didn't.

So, we're saying that a nobody coach has this great talent in his hands but is unwilling to help himself out and improve his chances of keeping his job by playing him.

I'm not saying this couldn't be the case, I've seen crazier things happen probably (I don't know, have I?), but my view of him is not gonna change based on nothing. Oh, sorry again that's 30 minutes.

Posted by: dst Nov 7 2014, 04:18 PM

Give me a reason Inzaghi is doing that to himself and Milan.

Is he such a bad evaluator of a talent? After all, he sees this kid every day and we only needed 30 minutes to see the kid's got great potential.

Does he hold a grudge on him?

Is he punishing him for some reason?

I can't see why. And until the kid plays and plays well I can't say Inzaghi is doing anything wrong. This is at the moment a huge non-issue.

Posted by: Danny Nov 7 2014, 04:50 PM

4 draws, 1 defeat and 2 wins in 7 matches suggests he's doing something wrong.

I'm not saying MvG is the answer to Milan's problems, but the fact he's been unwilling to play him despite a very impressive half v Empoli yet continues to play the unreliable firecracker that is Muntari (when available) suggests questions can rightly be asked.

After all, this promising Chelsea kid cost Mourinho £8M last season but few players of his age could breach the sensational midfield they have. Would I play him over Matic, Fabregas or Mikel - no - because Chelsea are MUCH better than Milan. But MvG has the talent, to, in time, improve. Who knows what level to, but then to develop promising young players you LOAN THEM OUT to 'lesser' (sad.gif) clubs so they get game time and experience.

No wonder his agent is having a rant.

Even our other 'big' summer midfield signing (£7M) Bonaventura himself has only started 4 matches while Muntari has 8 starts. What's the point of bringing in these players if you don't intend to play them and continue with the same players you already have - you know, the ones not actually performing at all?

Then there's the embarrasing Armero. Before the season started I wondered why we'd bothered signing him at all, you guys will remember me saying it was pointless given he was a Colombian LB world cup quarter finalist but with MDS did we need a player of that quality in that position given we already had one? Yet even when MDS' form dipped violently (there has been recent improvement) and indeed it cost us 2 points v Fiorentina Armero remained on the bench. So, if you're going to sign a player of that quality as 'competition' for your star LB but won't actually play him when the star LB's form crumples anyway, it's just a complete joke.

And don't get me started on the defence - while injury excuses the Palermo debacle (to an extent) Pippo's cast-iron refusal to start the same defence twice in a row this season is quite simply shocking.

No wonder we concede repeatedly.

So yes, I do ask questions of Pippo, and his approach. I don't even think he's out of his depth - was Allegri? Leonardo? Seedorf?

No. I just think we get the wrong managers who have a bizarre stubbornness (in their own unique ways) and it's their way or the highway.

They pay no attention to results or form, but start teams based on their own favourites.

And I'm pretty tired of it.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 7 2014, 05:43 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Nov 7 2014, 06:03 PM) *
All I can say is the 30 minutes he actually got was some of the best midfield play we've produced all season.

I'm guessing you didn't see it.

Are you serious?

Posted by: han2503 Nov 7 2014, 05:47 PM

QUOTE (dst @ Nov 7 2014, 04:13 PM) *
OK I'm sorry I thought we were basing this on nothing but it's actually 30 minutes. This changes everything!

No I didn't.

So, we're saying that a nobody coach has this great talent in his hands but is unwilling to help himself out and improve his chances of keeping his job by playing him.

I'm not saying this couldn't be the case, I've seen crazier things happen probably (I don't know, have I?), but my view of him is not gonna change based on nothing. Oh, sorry again that's 30 minutes.

Hey, the man plays Muntari each and every week like he's some masochist, so your theory couldn't be all that far fetched

I'm not going to join the jump the gun bandwagon and agree with Danny here (with regards to his supposed greatness). But the point is we have a horrible midfield and yet the coach still chooses to play the duds that have so far shown nothing but terrible football in these 10 weeks of Serie A games while VG has sat on the bench doing nothing.

At least if the others aren't doing the job give him a chance to prove himself, it's not like he's benching Xavi/Pirlo/Vidal/Pogba so van Ginkel could play

Posted by: Danny Nov 7 2014, 10:00 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 7 2014, 04:43 PM) *
Are you serious?


Yes, I was right, he didn't see it.

Posted by: Danny Nov 7 2014, 10:01 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Nov 7 2014, 04:47 PM) *
At least if the others aren't doing the job give him a chance to prove himself, it's not like he's benching Xavi/Pirlo/Vidal/Pogba so van Ginkel could play


All I'm saying.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 8 2014, 01:35 AM

Essien and Muntari are like Modric and Kroos in Pippo's eyes.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 8 2014, 01:19 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Nov 7 2014, 07:47 PM) *
Hey, the man plays Muntari each and every week like he's some masochist, so your theory couldn't be all that far fetched

I'm not going to join the jump the gun bandwagon and agree with Danny here (with regards to his supposed greatness). But the point is we have a horrible midfield and yet the coach still chooses to play the duds that have so far shown nothing but terrible football in these 10 weeks of Serie A games while VG has sat on the bench doing nothing.

At least if the others aren't doing the job give him a chance to prove himself, it's not like he's benching Xavi/Pirlo/Vidal/Pogba so van Ginkel could play

But now I'm baffled. Against Palermo Pippo played a different midfield without Muntari, yet you say there was no evident difference. What does that mean now?

Posted by: han2503 Nov 8 2014, 02:49 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 8 2014, 01:19 PM) *
But now I'm baffled. Against Palermo Pippo played a different midfield without Muntari, yet you say there was no evident difference. What does that mean now?

No evident difference in how we cover spaces (i.e. it's non existent either way even with the extra defensive minded player)

Muntari is not just a problem because he's an extra brainless player in a midfield that's desperate for some creativity. I'm sure if he did his job half decently most Milan fans wouldn't have the kind of problems they have with him. What's really terrible with Muntari is that he thinks he's better than he is. He tries ridiculous sh!t that never comes off and as a consequence of this he puts the entire team under pressure.

Someone pointed out an anecdote during the Verona game I think it was. Muntari has SES open right in front of him, Pippo is screaming his head off for him to pass it to SES, and what does Muntari do? Tries to dribble 2 Verona players, gets caught and loses the ball, handing over possession to them in a dangerous area of the pitch

This is the type of BS that I can't stand to watch him do, and it's why in my eyes, no matter how many pot shot goals he's managed to score, he'll always be a liability to play in midfield.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 8 2014, 03:08 PM

Bottom line is, any which way you look, we have 1) a tactical problem and 2) a midfield problem.

I just know that Muntari isn't completely useless, he does add something positive to our gameplan. Yet, the negatives outweigh the positives and he can't be considered a starter. Yet, Poli can't be either. Saponara as well. And soon we're reduced to van Ginkel being our "sure thing" and "hope".

Posted by: han2503 Nov 8 2014, 05:08 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 8 2014, 03:08 PM) *
Bottom line is, any which way you look, we have 1) a tactical problem and 2) a midfield problem.

I just know that Muntari isn't completely useless, he does add something positive to our gameplan. Yet, the negatives outweigh the positives and he can't be considered a starter. Yet, Poli can't be either. Saponara as well. And soon we're reduced to van Ginkel being our "sure thing" and "hope".

I personally do not see a single positive that Muntari brings to our game aside from the occasional long distance goal, and that's never enough to justify his current status in the team.

He is useless because he is the liability that you also acknowledge that he is, he's also a tactical nightmare to have in midfield unless he's played in a position where he's shackled into it and isn't able to free roam like he does currently.

The only time during his stay at Milan that I've actually said: "huh, Muntari did okay today if not very good even" is when Seedorf played him in a double pivot in a game or 2 when De Jong was unavailable.

But in our current system there simple shouldn't be any room for him unless it's to sub De Jong.

Aside from Poli, we also have Bonaventura who has always played well so far when given the opportunity aside from the first half against Cagliari where he was mostly MIA rather than bad. So yeah, for me the midfield pecking order right now has to be; De Jong, Bonaventura, Van Ginkel, Poli, Muntari and Essien. Until Monto is fit again.


And I agree, the personnel problem is only part of it, the other is a huge tactical one that I don't think Pippo has any clue as to how to fix. But my point has always been don't exacerbate the tactical shortcomings by piling on even more cr@p onto yourself and playing liabilities like Muntari and Bonera to add even more to your headaches. And Pippo has so far done this in spades

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Nov 8 2014, 07:47 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 8 2014, 06:08 PM) *
Bottom line is, any which way you look, we have 1) a tactical problem and 2) a midfield problem.

I just know that Muntari isn't completely useless, he does add something positive to our gameplan. Yet, the negatives outweigh the positives and he can't be considered a starter. Yet, Poli can't be either. Saponara as well. And soon we're reduced to van Ginkel being our "sure thing" and "hope".


Its a lost cause mate .. Even Ancelotti was criticized for playing Gattuso/Broochi/Emerson.

Maybe thr fifa games know more than our coaches.

Posted by: Danny Nov 11 2014, 04:36 PM

QUOTE
"There is no agreement with AC Milan. It is certainly a possibility, but for now, nothing more," Juame Serra (Suso's agent) told CalcioMercato.it.

"Rather, Liverpool are pushing for a renewal, so we can't rule them out."


Suso remains on our radar - seems he's stuck between two fallen giants and can't find a better gig elsewhere.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 13 2014, 03:22 PM

Armero: "I didn't ask to come to Milan. I wanted to play in a team where I would play as a protagonist. Inzaghi called me and offered me a starting position, that's why I accepted. However, I have barely played and the situation is very difficult"

http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/calcio/milan/2014/articoli/1051181/milan-armero-si-sfoga-con-inzaghi-situazione-difficile-il-mister-mi-ha-illuso-160-.shtml

Posted by: Danny Nov 14 2014, 01:04 AM

I am so disappointed for Armero. Sure, I didn't see why we were signing him but Pippo has pretty much lied to him.

His treatment of he and MvG has been shocking tbh.

Posted by: acid911 Nov 14 2014, 01:48 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Nov 14 2014, 06:04 AM) *
His treatment of he and MvG has been shocking tbh.

Not quite. sleep.gif I kind of expected this, to be honest. You can always, from new coaches, as they have unproven man management skills. One of the reasons why I just don't rate the profession. Apparently Maldini doesn't either. Too much politics, far too much politics.

Posted by: Danny Nov 16 2014, 03:56 PM

When I said 'shocking' I meant 'unnacceptable' as opposed to 'unpredictable'.

In this case though I'd argue for both given how well-respected and brilliantly he did with Primavera.

Posted by: acid911 Nov 16 2014, 04:18 PM

I got that vibe, though. biggrin.gif Unacceptable, more than shocking. That ties into my reply, you need to be a real top coach to tread these waters, bringing the best out of players, playing the best ones, and not letting politics and personal bias and favorites to creep into your selection. Seedorf was a hot potato in this regard, so is Inzaghi.

Ironic, considering what Allegri put him through. You give respect to earn it, and frankly, we haven't had a nice guy coach in eons. Ancelotti had that mean streak in him, and all our coaches since then, including Leonardo had it too. Maybe it's got to do with the culture we have in place, or just petty personal politics.

But hey, their funeral, I mean, right? sleep.gif You do well, you'll stay, if not, the volatile environment of this current AC Milan will automatically push you out. The only real constant we have is Mr. B. And he's not much a constant. Galliani,, the coaches, the players, everyone else is on shaky grounds.

It's the start of the season, still, but I'm already prepared for some wild changes.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Nov 16 2014, 05:00 PM

Think acid, its more to do with expectations here than anything else.

Milan is a club with a glorious history, bar Madrid no club could replicate this club's achievements.

Since the dawn of FFP we started to scale down on quality. We have become trigger friendly (as fans). And this is understandable, as our expectations are that of CL finals. Yet because of our lack of quality and lack of results, we quickly point the fingers.

We need to downgrade our expectations to what our club's capacity could support. We have to be aligned with this, otherwise we are left with frustration. Sure it is saddening when I go to watch a CL semi final at friends and they tease about Milan, but that is the circle of life if you will.

Berlusconi could throw in 200M, heck 500M the next day, but by doing so we would be barred from European competition and maybe fines from Liga Calcio. It has been cemented in these forums that Berlusconi does not care, that he wants to sell our best players to fill his own pockets, and these accusations/assumptions are fine since it is an internet forum. But for the record, he did do good. He made the Milan we are all fans of. While the current times, not only football, but all of Italy is bleeding. FIAT group spun off Ferrari to raise cash (last week).

Looking at Serie A today (or Italy as a whole), you can see the regression throughout. Roma were humbled by Bayern, the Roma for which we all consider title worthy contenders. It is telling of the times Italy's industries/exports are facing, and Milan is a product for which Italy markets. You would have to relate, otherwise it is all guess work.

In closing, Inzaghi is a sole we all love. Regardless of his coaching ability. However, after 10 or so matches since his Serie A debut we all have our guns aimed at him. We knew he was a noob and we all knew he could take time to adjust. The question remains is half a season enough time? is a season? what about two? or three? How long did Sir Alex take to start winning? how long did Ancelotti take? etc etc. Sacchi is a different story all together, as he was entrusted with a stellar team at a time when Italy was second only to Germany in terms of industrial capability.

Posted by: acid911 Nov 17 2014, 02:40 PM

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Nov 16 2014, 10:00 PM) *
Think acid, its more to do with expectations here than anything else.

Oh, I'm thinking alright brotherman. happy.gif Can't say the same about the guys in our management.

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Nov 16 2014, 10:00 PM) *
Milan is a club with a glorious history, bar Madrid no club could replicate this club's achievements.

Not even them. I don't count their first five wins. Backed by another fascist dictator. dry.gif There was Milan in the 90s, and there was Barcelona in the 2000s, while decade no particular team has been able to cement authority, though there have been a bunch of three or four at the very top.

Then again, this decade is barely half done here, so maybe some team can.

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Nov 16 2014, 10:00 PM) *
Since the dawn of FFP we started to scale down on quality. We have become trigger friendly (as fans). And this is understandable, as our expectations are that of CL finals. Yet because of our lack of quality and lack of results, we quickly point the fingers.

No they're not, this is where we take a different route. sleep.gif As I mentioned before, most of us here, at least here on Milanfan, have reasonable expectations. They can live with the results as long as they're met. While being in full knowledge of the all the missteps the management (in particular Galliani) has taken in the past few years.

For me, I don't even care about the results, only the way we conduct ourselves on the pitch. And off of it. If there's a broadcast on, I'll watch a Milan match even if they were playing in Serie B or C or Z, whatever. If not, I'll read up the results on the newspapers and websites. huh.gif But not this mess, not this politicized mess.

I'm interested in the sports of it, not the spectacle. Though that also comes if you the team plays well.

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Nov 16 2014, 10:00 PM) *
We need to downgrade our expectations to what our club's capacity could support. We have to be aligned with this, otherwise we are left with frustration. Sure it is saddening when I go to watch a CL semi final at friends and they tease about Milan, but that is the circle of life if you will.

Yeah, I don't have friends like these. tongue.gif I've brainwashed them into believing that their clubs are too mainstream, and are run by corrupt officials. In the case of Madrid it was easy, because or their dirty past and the fact that they've barely developed a player. For Barcelona, they have made it easy with their tactics and cheating.

The EPL clubs there was no need for such mind tricks. So almost everyone I know respects Milan and they don't tease about us, only hope for us come back into the elite circle. unsure.gif Obviously, having class acts like Maldini, Van Basten, Sheva, Nesta, Ibra and Silva play for us helps in carving out an image. Subliminal messaging!

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Nov 16 2014, 10:00 PM) *
Berlusconi could throw in 200M, heck 500M the next day, but by doing so we would be barred from European competition and maybe fines from Liga Calcio. It has been cemented in these forums that Berlusconi does not care, that he wants to sell our best players to fill his own pockets, and these accusations/assumptions are fine since it is an internet forum. But for the record, he did do good. He made the Milan we are all fans of. While the current times, not only football, but all of Italy is bleeding. FIAT group spun off Ferrari to raise cash (last week).

Yeah, well Mr. B and Galliani are two corrupt bastards, you know that. cool.gif I like what they've done with the place, and sure we wouldn't be here having this conversation if it were not because of these two individuals. Berlusconi in particular, but Galliani also had a part to play in our success. Just as they're having a say in our demise.

Point being, I respect what they've done for the team, but it wasn't exactly charity. One pocketed millions upon millions for the job, while other used the club to define his politics. It were the players and the fans that built Milan, and they are the real stakeholders. Even if they don't have a place in the power corridors.

But getting back to that point, all I want, all we want is a display of sanity, openness, right selection of players when it comes to transfers, signing up a genuine coach, trimming down of needless expenses, and showing that we have something as a project going on. Self esteem and respect doesn't require funds, now, does it?

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Nov 16 2014, 10:00 PM) *
Looking at Serie A today (or Italy as a whole), you can see the regression throughout. Roma were humbled by Bayern, the Roma for which we all consider title worthy contenders. It is telling of the times Italy's industries/exports are facing, and Milan is a product for which Italy markets. You would have to relate, otherwise it is all guess work.

Milan is more than Italy now. Has been for decades now. ohmy.gif It's another matter entirely that the management did not have the foresight to market the club right, pitch it to audiences in the USA, the Middle East and the Far East. Even South America. All four are expansive markets, and could have helped us immensely.

They sign Honda now, when we could have snapped him up ages ago. A limited player, I know, maybe he could have developed better in company of legends, but there is no denying that he is the number one player in Asia, and we could have used that to our advantage. Opportunities delayed are opportunities lost.

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Nov 16 2014, 10:00 PM) *
In closing, Inzaghi is a sole we all love. Regardless of his coaching ability. However, after 10 or so matches since his Serie A debut we all have our guns aimed at him. We knew he was a noob and we all knew he could take time to adjust. The question remains is half a season enough time? is a season? what about two? or three? How long did Sir Alex take to start winning? how long did Ancelotti take? etc etc. Sacchi is a different story all together, as he was entrusted with a stellar team at a time when Italy was second only to Germany in terms of industrial capability.

I don't want to talk about Inzaghi, though. sad.gif He's done some good things for us as a player, delivered where it mattered, but even though I have a fair amount of reservations for him as a person, he really should not have been hired as a coach. Not when we don't even has stability in the team, the squad.

Should have gone for a more experienced hand and given him time to do what he wants with the team. I was against the Seedorf appointment too, but at least he had tremendous footballing sense, and was trying to create a system. Failed, yeah, I know, But Inzaghi is just experimenting and hoping for this to coming out good.

And it's not about taking the time to adjust, it's about showing that there are adjustments. Doing the basics right, which he is not. Again, like I said, these are still early days, and I am prepared for a lot more changes in the coming moons. I'm already prepared for things to go a lot bad before they improve.

But that, in no ways, ties into my expectations and wanting things right now like a spoiled child. I'm prepared to wait, and wait for as long as it is necessary. Not like this, though, not what we, very clearly, seem to be going around in circles. And that too, with the so called experienced hands on deck.

Berlusconi and Galliani have been through this in the late 90s, when the cycle ended, and they made the same mistakes again. Missing out on key players, not splashing the cash where needed, and wasting it where it wasn't. Our current mess started right after our 2007 win. Everyone from Ancelotti to Allegri are at fault.

Along with the management, of course. They lacked foresight, and it's come back to bite us where it hurts!

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 17 2014, 04:55 PM

Latest rumors:


Source: Mediaset

I'd love Sneijder. The guy is only 30 and can more than cut it in Italy. The other two names (Uchida and Vangioni) would be useless. They're certainly not better than Armero.



Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 17 2014, 05:06 PM

Sneijder would be a nice signing. Uchida is decent, but as you said it's pretty pointless when we had MDS and Armero in the squad. Don't really understand the Suso chase either.

Posted by: acid911 Nov 17 2014, 05:22 PM

Yay for Sneijder, a million times over! king.gif Make it happen, make it happen!

Posted by: Danny Nov 17 2014, 08:18 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 17 2014, 03:55 PM) *
Latest rumors:
  • We're interested in Sneijder. He could come on loan for six months in January, then we'll see. Honda won't be available in January due to participating in the Asia Cup.
  • We want to find two substitutes for Abate and De Sciglio. The most quoted names are Uchida of Schalke and Leonel Vangioni of River Plate.
  • Armero, Zaccardo, Albertazzi, Pazzini and Niang will probably be sold/let go.
  • Suso is a serious objective, but there's fear that he won't be able to adapt to Serie A in January without preparation.

Source: Mediaset

I'd love Sneijder. The guy is only 30 and can more than cut it in Italy. The other two names (Uchida and Vangioni) would be useless. They're certainly not better than Armero.


This Armero thing absolutely bewilders me.

But yes, I would take Sneijder. He's younger than I realised and his wages aren't too high at Galatasaray.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 17 2014, 08:25 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Nov 17 2014, 08:18 PM) *
But yes, I would take Sneijder. He's younger than I realised and his wages aren't too high at Galatasaray.


€3.2 million a season, yeah. If he's willing to take a pay-cut at around €2.5 million I would gladly have him.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 20 2014, 12:16 PM

We're interested in Okaka for January. Our offer is Pazzini + cash.

http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/mercato/mercato/2014/articoli/1051737/il-milan-punta-tutto-su-okaka-160-.shtml

I think Okaka is a very talented striker. Would be a good deal.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 20 2014, 01:31 PM

Wow he's only 25? Felt like he was playing for Roma a long time ago. I like him, would depend how much cash they want though.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 20 2014, 02:18 PM

Yeah, he debuted with Roma when he was only 16. To be honest, I've always rated him, even when he was playing for Bari. But somehow he never managed to make that big leap forward. Now I think he's ready.

Posted by: maldini03 Nov 20 2014, 03:18 PM

If we are going to be dealing with Samp, I would much prefer to try and snatch Gabbiadini. He is left footed, and he could play on the right, and use that left foot to cut inside.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 20 2014, 04:54 PM

QUOTE (maldini03 @ Nov 20 2014, 03:18 PM) *
If we are going to be dealing with Samp, I would much prefer to try and snatch Gabbiadini. He is left footed, and he could play on the right, and use that left foot to cut inside.


I personally don't rate him that much.

Posted by: Danny Nov 20 2014, 11:55 PM

I am now cynical about any player we're interested in. For the simple reason that they can't be that good if they want to come to us.

Our stock is worse now than it was during the summer window.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 21 2014, 01:37 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 20 2014, 02:16 PM) *
We're interested in Okaka for January. Our offer is Pazzini + cash.

http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/mercato/mercato/2014/articoli/1051737/il-milan-punta-tutto-su-okaka-160-.shtml

I think Okaka is a very talented striker. Would be a good deal.

25 years, never managed to score more then 7 goals. Didn't cut it with Roma, most probably wouldn't with us too. I don't think it would be a good investment.

What's that about Sneijder? Is he really on our radar or was it just a rumor that went cold?

Posted by: han2503 Nov 21 2014, 10:11 AM

Okaka is just a big lumbering player, he might work for the smaller clubs who punt the ball at him and he bullies his way through but I can't really see him doing it for the big clubs

That being said, Pazzo seems to be finished so if the cash sum is not too steep I'd swap him with Pazzo and that cash

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 22 2014, 12:23 AM

But what's the point really. Look at the strikers that recently failed at Milan: Torres (?), Pazzini, Matri. All prima punta strikers who are not compatible with the way we play. And if it's one thing I don't want for us to change, it's the fact that we still didn't transform in a small - one man - team.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 22 2014, 01:45 AM

Are you implying that we don't need a prima punta, at all? Matri failed because he sucks. Pazzini is mediocre. Torres is past his prime. It's not like all these players you mentioned have a common attribute that made them fail. They're just not good enough. Bring in someone like Diego Costa or Cavani and you'll see how much better they'll perform.

Posted by: han2503 Nov 22 2014, 09:17 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 22 2014, 01:45 AM) *
Are you implying that we don't need a prima punta, at all? Matri failed because he sucks. Pazzini is mediocre. Torres is past his prime. It's not like all these players you mentioned have a common attribute that made them fail. They're just not good enough. Bring in someone like Diego Costa or Cavani and you'll see how much better they'll perform.

I'm sorry but I don't agree with that. Cavani and Diego Costa are top notch players but they're rarely going to create for you.

The foundation of this problem is that we want to rely on a striker to do everything when our midfield is pure sh!t and it's the problem, not the strikers.

The only type of striker that could in any way shape or form improve us and still be prolific himself is Ibra or someone in that kind of mould. A Prima Punta, no matter how great he is relies on the service of others, and that's why they'll continue to fail with this team we have.

I think Matri is mediocre, but give him service and he'll hit an average amount of goals for you each year (like he did at Juve), he had none with us. I'm personally still shocked that Pazzo managed to look good with us during his first season as we just don't create good enough chances, especially when you have a player like him that lives off of those chances created by others.

I'm not saying we don't have any issues in attack, far from it. But I do think that we're seeing this kind of struggle because Torres barely has any bread crumbs to live off of. We're using the long ball on him and using him like a target man, that's how desperate and uncreative our midfield is atm. I still believe Torres can be half decent with us, but it won't happen until he actually gets any chances. He works hard during the game, I can see that, constantly making runs and trying to fight for the ball but it's pointless for him to make those runs if no one is capable of spotting him and making the through pass for him

Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 22 2014, 02:37 PM

Agreed with that.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 22 2014, 03:04 PM

Yep, agreed here as well.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 22 2014, 11:00 PM

I don't. Top class CFs can score even without service.

Posted by: Danny Nov 23 2014, 12:04 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 22 2014, 10:00 PM) *
I don't. Top class CFs can score even without service.


Ibrahimovic is a screamer of an example. As was Torres in his heyday. People forget how sh*t that Liverpool actually was, 2005 aside.

But I also take Han's point about midfield service. Fact is Torres ISN'T a top class CF now, and needs help.

We all have an idea of what the ultimate (current) Milan team would line up as: De Jong, MvG, Bonaventura, Monto. 3 of those 4. Menez and SES flanking Torres as a 3 striker prong. There would be service there.

But we're stuck with Essien, Muntari and Honda so basically, what's the point in whining. Pippo's gonna do what Pippo's gonna do.

Posted by: han2503 Nov 23 2014, 11:49 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 22 2014, 11:00 PM) *
I don't. Top class CFs can score even without service.

I personally cannot see a Cavani or Costa being as great as they are if they don't get good service.

Ibra is completely different though, he's just as much a creator as he is a striker

I personally believe that if you brought in either Costa or Cavani into this team and leave the rest of the squad as is they'd flop hard.

Torres is not as great as he used to be, no arguments there. But I never really saw him as an Ibra type striker, I'd put him more in the Costa/Cavani bag than the Ibra one, so to not only ask him to score now but to expect some sort of all-round thing from him while he's in decline would not be fair. So I do sympathise with him because I do feel like he's struggling more because of our lack of creativity more than anything else

Posted by: Danny Nov 23 2014, 12:01 PM

Suarez. He WAS Liverpool. Now he's gone and they're shite.

Want more examples?

Posted by: han2503 Nov 23 2014, 12:14 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Nov 23 2014, 12:01 PM) *
Suarez. He WAS Liverpool. Now he's gone and they're shite.

Want more examples?

Would you really call Suarez a typical CF though? He can play deep, he can play on the wing and he can play up top. Would you play Cavani on the wing for example or even in the trequartista position (which Suarez occupied at times last season as well)?

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 23 2014, 12:36 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Nov 23 2014, 12:14 PM) *
Would you really call Suarez a typical CF though? He can play deep, he can play on the wing and he can play up top. Would you play Cavani on the wing for example or even in the trequartista position (which Suarez occupied at times last season as well)?


Cavani plays wide at PSG when Ibra is not out injured/suspended.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 23 2014, 01:03 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Nov 23 2014, 01:14 PM) *
Would you really call Suarez a typical CF though? He can play deep, he can play on the wing and he can play up top. Would you play Cavani on the wing for example or even in the trequartista position (which Suarez occupied at times last season as well)?

Suarez was pretty much an inside forward/winger the entirety of last season. Sturridge played through the middle. As for Liverpool this season, Sturridge has only played 3 games so far this season, they did just fine with Suarez last season.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 23 2014, 01:50 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Nov 23 2014, 02:04 AM) *
Ibrahimovic is a screamer of an example. As was Torres in his heyday. People forget how sh*t that Liverpool actually was, 2005 aside.

But I also take Han's point about midfield service. Fact is Torres ISN'T a top class CF now, and needs help.

We all have an idea of what the ultimate (current) Milan team would line up as: De Jong, MvG, Bonaventura, Monto. 3 of those 4. Menez and SES flanking Torres as a 3 striker prong. There would be service there.

But we're stuck with Essien, Muntari and Honda so basically, what's the point in whining. Pippo's gonna do what Pippo's gonna do.

So in the light what you said, Okaka is a world class CF alla Ibrahimović for you?

And I don't see how you can disagree. You say Liverpool was shite, but you easily forget that their midfield consisted of Gerrard, Xabi Alonso plus players like Hamann or Berger. Well maybe it isn't especially fancy, but man is this miles ahead of the creative forces of Montolivo, de Jong, Poli and Muntari.

And sure, top class CF's in form can do the work by themselves. But; firstly a prima punta rarely does. Ibra was never the typical prima punta. Torres, yes, but then you see he never had an actually bad service midfield - and you can also argue that his decline started with the decline of Liverpools midfield quality. And secondly, being reduced to Ibra is part of todays problem as well, it's what Allegri didn't mind turning Milan into. And now it's part of our mentality problem.

Bottom line is, I think we don't need Okaka. We need good midfielders, organizers, builders, architects.

Posted by: han2503 Nov 23 2014, 01:51 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 23 2014, 12:36 PM) *
Cavani plays wide at PSG when Ibra is not out injured/suspended.

He hasn't done that in a while though since Ibra's been injured and it's only now that he's playing through the centre that he's scoring regularly again. They were dubbing him a failure after last season

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 23 2014, 04:32 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 23 2014, 01:50 PM) *
Bottom line is, I think we don't need Okaka. We need good midfielders, organizers, builders, architects.


Who said we don't need those? Midfield is our worst department. But signing a CF doesn't exclude signing quality midfielders.

QUOTE (han2503 @ Nov 23 2014, 01:51 PM) *
He hasn't done that in a while though since Ibra's been injured and it's only now that he's playing through the centre that he's scoring regularly again. They were dubbing him a failure after last season


Point is he's not so limited as you imply. Most CFs nowadays are not in the mold of Inzaghi, Crespo, Gilardino, Pazzini, Matri etc. Those are poachers. People like Suarez, Diego Costa, Cavani, Benzema etc. are CFs that are not 100% reliant on service, but can also make things happen on their own. And I think Okaka falls more into the later category, even though obviously he's not near as good as the names I mentioned.

Posted by: han2503 Nov 23 2014, 05:22 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 23 2014, 04:32 PM) *
Point is he's not so limited as you imply. Most CFs nowadays are not in the mold of Inzaghi, Crespo, Gilardino, Pazzini, Matri etc. Those are poachers. People like Suarez, Diego Costa, Cavani, Benzema etc. are CFs that are not 100% reliant on service, but can also make things happen on their own. And I think Okaka falls more into the later category, even though obviously he's not near as good as the names I mentioned.

Notice that during my first reply I said that players like Cavani or Costa will create but without good service behind them they wouldn't score anywhere near the amount of goals that they do

I never said that either Cavani or Costa are limited. They're great strikers, certainly not poachers in the Pippo/Gila/Pazzo mould.

But they're not prolific creators either, therefore they need a creatively strong midfield behind them for them to rack up the kind of goal tallies that they do.

Suarez and Benzema are more all-rounders for me, especially Suarez, they're very capable of both starting or finishing an attacking move. And while I do agree with you that both Costa and Cavani can do this as well, they won't do it on a regular basis like a Suarez or Ibra does, their best asset is scoring.

So I still stand by my point, bring Cavani or Costa here and leave the rest of the team as is and they'd struggle. I don't for one second believe that they'd be able to come into this team and do what Ibra did.

I'm not saying this is an either/or issue, but the initial point of this discussion was that a better striker would fix some of our issues, and personally I just don't think that's the case at all

Posted by: Danny Nov 24 2014, 10:47 AM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 23 2014, 12:50 PM) *
So in the light what you said, Okaka is a world class CF alla Ibrahimović for you?


wtf

I've made no comment on Okaka.

QUOTE
And I don't see how you can disagree. You say Liverpool was shite, but you easily forget that their midfield consisted of Gerrard, Xabi Alonso plus players like Hamann or Berger. Well maybe it isn't especially fancy, but man is this miles ahead of the creative forces of Montolivo, de Jong, Poli and Muntari.


wtf

I said the current Liverpool, not one from 2005.

QUOTE
And sure, top class CF's in form can do the work by themselves. But; firstly a prima punta rarely does. Ibra was never the typical prima punta. Torres, yes, but then you see he never had an actually bad service midfield - and you can also argue that his decline started with the decline of Liverpools midfield quality. And secondly, being reduced to Ibra is part of todays problem as well, it's what Allegri didn't mind turning Milan into. And now it's part of our mentality problem.


wtf

PSG under Carlo and Blanc are doing the same thing, as did Ajax and Juve and Inter and every club he's been at, Barca aside.

QUOTE
Bottom line is, I think we don't need Okaka. We need good midfielders, organizers, builders, architects.


wtf

I never said I wanted Okaka.

Posted by: Danny Nov 24 2014, 10:48 AM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Nov 23 2014, 11:14 AM) *
Would you really call Suarez a typical CF though? He can play deep, he can play on the wing and he can play up top. Would you play Cavani on the wing for example or even in the trequartista position (which Suarez occupied at times last season as well)?


Cavani has been on the wing his entire time at PSG.

Posted by: han2503 Nov 24 2014, 11:32 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Nov 24 2014, 10:48 AM) *
Cavani has been on the wing his entire time at PSG.

He was on the wing last season because of Ibra. Ibra has been injured this season and Cavani is playing in the centre and finally really shining as he did at Napoli, while after last season (playing on the wing as you said) he was already getting dubbed a failure and someone PSG wanted to sell.

Posted by: Danny Nov 24 2014, 11:50 AM

Not sure I'd say 6 in 13 for PSG is shining.

Decent, but for someone once dubbed a 'top 3' striker on earth, it's not that impressive. Especially for a team that good in a 'relatively' weaker league.

Posted by: han2503 Nov 24 2014, 12:30 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Nov 24 2014, 11:50 AM) *
Not sure I'd say 6 in 13 for PSG is shining.

Decent, but for someone once dubbed a 'top 3' striker on earth, it's not that impressive. Especially for a team that good in a 'relatively' weaker league.

It's better than last season as the general view on him is far more positive than it was last imo. He was getting a lot of shtick last season

Posted by: Danny Nov 24 2014, 12:56 PM

Yeah he was rubbish last season.

Posted by: han2503 Nov 24 2014, 01:08 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Nov 24 2014, 12:56 PM) *
Yeah he was rubbish last season.

Well he's not a winger so go figure...

Posted by: Danny Nov 24 2014, 01:22 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Nov 24 2014, 12:08 PM) *
Well he's not a winger so go figure...


Gets played there for Uruguay too. I have no idea why.

Posted by: han2503 Nov 24 2014, 01:30 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Nov 24 2014, 01:22 PM) *
Gets played there for Uruguay too. I have no idea why.

Probably because he works hard

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 24 2014, 04:25 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Nov 24 2014, 12:47 PM) *
wtf

I've made no comment on Okaka.

What's with the wtf's? Is it really so annoying to you to see my comments or what?

Sorry, the discussion started with Okaka, I assumed you wanted to say that Okaka is different/better then our recent PP failures. Sorry.

QUOTE
wtf

I said the current Liverpool, not one from 2005.

You said current Liverpool? How can Torres be in the current Liverpool? No man, you're stretching this just because you wanted to add another wtf. And here's the proof from your initial post:

QUOTE
Ibrahimovic is a screamer of an example. As was Torres in his heyday. People forget how sh*t that Liverpool actually was, 2005 aside.


QUOTE
wtf

PSG under Carlo and Blanc are doing the same thing, as did Ajax and Juve and Inter and every club he's been at, Barca aside.

Indeed. Carlo tried to make PSG less Ibra-dependent, Blanc doesn't care actually. But my point is, all the "good" Ibra sides, Juve under Fabio, Inter to an extent and PSG to an even lesser extent with Carlo all had a solid plan B and tried to avoid solely rely on Ibrahimović. Juventus had major problems and changes (due to relegation) after Ibra left, while Inter managed to compensate with Mourinho's tactical thinking and important additions like Milito and especially Eto'o.

The thing is, as soon as we lost Ibrahimović, we started to look toothless in attack with Allegri. A year gone already, and we still played the occasional long ball as if the ghost of Zlatan would somehow resurrect.

QUOTE
wtf

I never said I wanted Okaka.

Again, sorry, my bad.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 24 2014, 05:32 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Nov 24 2014, 11:47 AM) *
wtf

I said the current Liverpool, not one from 2005

To be fair, you've lost me on this one. You said Torres did well in a crap Liverpool side and created things for himself. Now you're saying you were talking about the current Liverpool side. I don't really follow. Torres doesn't play in the current Liverpool side.

I think Torres has always been hugely overrated, though. One season with 20 or more league goals?

Posted by: Danny Nov 24 2014, 09:11 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Nov 24 2014, 04:32 PM) *
To be fair, you've lost me on this one. You said Torres did well in a crap Liverpool side and created things for himself. Now you're saying you were talking about the current Liverpool side. I don't really follow. Torres doesn't play in the current Liverpool side.


Yeah, I forgot my original post on the subject. Got mixed up. Torres' Liverpool was indeed sh*t, but nowhere near as bad as this one.

QUOTE
I think Torres has always been hugely overrated, though. One season with 20 or more league goals?


I'd still rather have him in his heyday than this dreadful piece of cr*p.

Posted by: Danny Nov 24 2014, 09:14 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 24 2014, 03:25 PM) *
What's with the wtf's? Is it really so annoying to you to see my comments or what?

Sorry, the discussion started with Okaka, I assumed you wanted to say that Okaka is different/better then our recent PP failures. Sorry.


You said current Liverpool? How can Torres be in the current Liverpool? No man, you're stretching this just because you wanted to add another wtf. And here's the proof from your initial post:




Indeed. Carlo tried to make PSG less Ibra-dependent, Blanc doesn't care actually. But my point is, all the "good" Ibra sides, Juve under Fabio, Inter to an extent and PSG to an even lesser extent with Carlo all had a solid plan B and tried to avoid solely rely on Ibrahimović. Juventus had major problems and changes (due to relegation) after Ibra left, while Inter managed to compensate with Mourinho's tactical thinking and important additions like Milito and especially Eto'o.

The thing is, as soon as we lost Ibrahimović, we started to look toothless in attack with Allegri. A year gone already, and we still played the occasional long ball as if the ghost of Zlatan would somehow resurrect.


Again, sorry, my bad.


wtf wink.gif

Yeah I don't see any reason to bring in Okaka - our issue is not a lack of creativity in the last third, it's the link between midfield AND the last third which is non-existent. We have, theoretically, a decent (ish) attack. Menez, SES, Honda, Torres (EL OH EL), Pazzo - we just have no cohesion with it from midfield.

But let's face it, it's still a horrible attack compared with our former peers like Barca, Real, Juve etc. Indeed it's a horrible attack compared to most top league mid positions.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 27 2014, 11:34 AM

We are interested in Marcelo Brozovic, 22-y-o CM that plays for Dinamo Zagreb. They've already declined a loan and want €8 million, against the €4 million Galliani is willing to offer. Dortmund and Arsenal are also very interested in him. Against Italy, he played as DM in the double pivot, but can also play as AM. So, I'd assume he's a creative midfielder.

http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/mercato/milan/2014/articoli/1052296/mercato-milan-offerta-per-brozovic-della-dinamo-zagabria.shtml

Fillipo?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 27 2014, 12:04 PM

Hm, I don't think he's exactly what we need. He can play DM and AM but isn't exactly a classic player for either position. Something in-between. I'm rather skeptical, even if he's a big talent here in Croatia.

Posted by: Danny Dec 3 2014, 03:19 AM

Silva linked with a return to San Siro next season CDS.

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 3 2014, 08:49 AM

BS.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 3 2014, 01:14 PM

Why not?

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 3 2014, 01:23 PM

Why would they sell him?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 3 2014, 01:30 PM

Well, he's 30 and maybe he wants to end his career with Milan for the last 3-4 seasons. We very well know where his heart is. If PSG don't make a considerable challenge for the CL this season, maybe he'll feel it's time to move on. I know this is stretching things and just wishful thinking, but who knows what PSG plans for next season.

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 3 2014, 01:38 PM

30 is not too much, especially for a defender. Silva can be top class for the next 3-4 years no problem. Again, I see no reason why PSG would sell him. If he wants to end his career at Milan, he'll have to wait until his contract runs out (2018).

Posted by: Danny Dec 3 2014, 04:06 PM

Still need a striker and the best names we get linked to are Liverpool failure Suso and Marseille's underwhelming Gignac.

Utter depressing the dross we get associated with.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 3 2014, 05:06 PM

Has Silva been injured? I notice Marquinhos and David Luiz have both played more than him this season.

Posted by: Danny Dec 3 2014, 11:19 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Dec 3 2014, 04:06 PM) *
Has Silva been injured? I notice Marquinhos and David Luiz have both played more than him this season.


He's lost a great deal of his star quality. Loss of form and injury last season. He's not the Silva we sold although he remains their club captain.

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 3 2014, 11:24 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 3 2014, 04:06 PM) *
Still need a striker and the best names we get linked to are Liverpool failure Suso and Marseille's underwhelming Gignac.

Utter depressing the dross we get associated with.


Gignac has scored 11 goals in 13 games so far, with Marseille being first. That's not bad.

Posted by: Danny Dec 4 2014, 12:18 AM

Look at his career stats. He's 28. Another one having a purple patch now and it'll probably stop soon as he arrives. But his overall stats for Marseille are not exactly stunning. And it's an easier league to score in than Serie A. If he was a truly great striker he'd have got a gig in Serie A, La Liga, EPL, Germany etc before now.

You're right, not bad. For a Genoa. But we're Milan and this is the kind of striker we go for now.

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 9 2014, 07:58 PM

Rumors about a Torres-Cerci swap today but apparently Atletico declined.

Posted by: Danny Dec 9 2014, 11:50 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Dec 9 2014, 06:58 PM) *
Rumors about a Torres-Cerci swap today but apparently Atletico declined.


REALLY?!

Wonder how that one went:

Galliani: "Hello. Was wondering if you'd like a turd...sorry, a Torres, and you give us £20M rated Allesio Cerci in return?"

Atletico: "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA NO"

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 11 2014, 12:58 PM

Dortmund are interested in El Shaarawy. They want to sign him this January.

http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/mercato/mercato/2014/articoli/1053417/milan-il-borussia-dortmund-vuole-el-shaarawy-160-.shtml

Yes, please!

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Dec 11 2014, 06:55 PM

Tuttosport claims that Milan and Inter will try to sign Destro as they are looking for a replacement for Pazzini and Icardi, respectively.

Milan had scouts present during Dortmund-Anderlecht two days ago (to watch Sahin, Gündogan, Immobile, Mbemba, Tielemans and Mitrovic).

source: Milanello/twitter

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 11 2014, 07:22 PM

Destro is totally overrated. I wouldn't like him with us.

Posted by: Danny Dec 11 2014, 09:09 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Dec 11 2014, 11:58 AM) *
Dortmund are interested in El Shaarawy. They want to sign him this January.

http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/mercato/mercato/2014/articoli/1053417/milan-il-borussia-dortmund-vuole-el-shaarawy-160-.shtml

Yes, please!


Confirmed. They've made contact in the past 24 hours regarding his availability. Word also is Silvio wants a new formation - 4:3:1:2.

If we can get £15M+ for SES it's good business. They need a replacement for Reus who's rumoured to be off to Spain, and the world seems deluded into thinking SES is a good player. So...we could even get more. He has no baggage, so maybe a good £25M for him?

He's been a diabolical signing.

Posted by: Danny Dec 11 2014, 09:10 PM

QUOTE (d'Arc.LP @ Dec 11 2014, 05:55 PM) *
Tuttosport claims that Milan and Inter will try to sign Destro as they are looking for a replacement for Pazzini and Icardi, respectively.

Milan had scouts present during Dortmund-Anderlecht two days ago (to watch Sahin, Gündogan, Immobile, Mbemba, Tielemans and Mitrovic).

source: Milanello/twitter


What's for sure is we are aching for a good striker. Immobile is a slightly underwhelming target but he's better than both Balo and Torres combined.

Posted by: han2503 Dec 11 2014, 10:05 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 11 2014, 09:09 PM) *
Confirmed. They've made contact in the past 24 hours regarding his availability. Word also is Silvio wants a new formation - 4:3:1:2.

If we can get £15M+ for SES it's good business. They need a replacement for Reus who's rumoured to be off to Spain, and the world seems deluded into thinking SES is a good player. So...we could even get more. He has no baggage, so maybe a good £25M for him?

He's been a diabolical signing.

If we're going to sell SES to Dortmund I'd personally rather offer him + cash and get someone like Gundogan off them if it were possible. Immobile is no great shake either.

Personally I don't think this deal will happen anyway.

If Pippo really wanted to switch to a 4-3-1-2 he would have by now, SES is more a striker than a winger anyway. It's obvious he's sticking with the 4-3-3 no matter what considering he plays Honda as a winger and Menez as a "false 9"

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Dec 11 2014, 10:24 PM

QUOTE (d'Arc.LP @ Dec 11 2014, 09:55 PM) *
Tuttosport claims that Milan and Inter will try to sign Destro as they are looking for a replacement for Pazzini and Icardi, respectively.

Milan had scouts present during Dortmund-Anderlecht two days ago (to watch Sahin, Gündogan, Immobile, Mbemba, Tielemans and Mitrovic).

source: Milanello/twitter


Welcome back king.gif

I think Milan will invest in this window, they need to support this coach and further reinforce the team.

Though I believe the attack is the last department that we should be looking to change, the lack of goals from our strikers is worrying, SES is good but maybe in Arsenal he would be the world beater.

That said, I think a striker is necessary in this window.

Posted by: acid911 Dec 11 2014, 10:26 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 12 2014, 02:09 AM) *
Confirmed. They've made contact in the past 24 hours regarding his availability.

Couldn't happen to a better club. sleep.gif That is unless they make a man out of him, and he fits in their plans. Otherwise, it'll just be a bad signing for them at a time when they cannot afford bad signings. We'll see.

Posted by: Danny Dec 12 2014, 01:01 AM

Not a fan of BVB Acid!

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 12 2014, 01:15 AM

Yeah, who cares really. I'd be a bit carefully with Borussia players these days. They look good, but not many of them truly are (IMO). This is partly what happened this season too.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Dec 12 2014, 01:18 AM

Why isn't Milan trying to sign someone from Brazil ? Or that ship sailed when we screwd things up with Leonardo ?

I think Milan should get back to signing Brazilians. We had good experience with them at least.

Also, since I've not been here for some time, I don't think I can stress it enough on what a big mistake selling Bryan Cristante was.

But above all, I think the team is underachieving since we have some good players and that (underachieving) is mostly cos of the bad tactics. If I were Inzaghi (glad I'm not), I'd play something like this:


----------El Shaarawy - Menez
------------------ Honda
----------- Montolivo - Poli
------ ----------- De Jong
De Sciglio - Mexes - Rami - Abate
----------------- D.Lopez

And if I could have one wish granted, since we're on the winter transfers thread, I'd transfer Shaqiri and play 4-5-1 with El Shaarawy and Shaqiri on the wings.

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Dec 12 2014, 12:24 AM) *
Welcome back king.gif


Thank you smile.gif

Posted by: Danny Dec 12 2014, 02:27 AM

Hey, I welcomed you back too and you ignored me sad.gif

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Dec 12 2014, 07:31 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 12 2014, 04:27 AM) *
Hey, I welcomed you back too and you ignored me sad.gif


I'm sorry man, I really didn't see that. Thank you and again I'm really sorry.

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 12 2014, 11:53 AM

Welcome back, brother. king.gif

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 12 2014, 12:04 PM

We're interested in Diego Perotti (26) who apparently is having a good season at Genoa. Berlusconi wants him because he wants to play with a trequartista, especially since Honda will be busy in January at the Asian Cup.

http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/mercato/mercato/2014/articoli/1053495/milan-parte-la-missione-perotti.shtml

EDIT: Never seen the guy play, but Transfermarkt says he's a winger... rolleyes.gif

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Dec 12 2014, 12:37 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Dec 12 2014, 01:53 PM) *
Welcome back, brother. king.gif


Thank you bro smile.gif

Posted by: Danny Dec 12 2014, 04:31 PM

QUOTE (d'Arc.LP @ Dec 12 2014, 06:31 AM) *
I'm sorry man, I really didn't see that. Thank you and again I'm really sorry.


Reluctantly forgiven tongue.gif

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 12 2014, 05:14 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Dec 12 2014, 02:04 PM) *
We're interested in Diego Perotti (26) who apparently is having a good season at Genoa. Berlusconi wants him because he wants to play with a trequartista, especially since Honda will be busy in January at the Asian Cup.

http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/mercato/mercato/2014/articoli/1053495/milan-parte-la-missione-perotti.shtml

EDIT: Never seen the guy play, but Transfermarkt says he's a winger... rolleyes.gif

He played fairly good against us last week. In fact, the moment I saw him dribble and doing some (minor) flashy things I knew we'd be linked with him one way or the other.

Posted by: Danny Dec 12 2014, 11:13 PM

Absolutely insane link with Liverpool thinking of bringing back Torres.

F*ck, we got revenge in '07, we ripped them off with Balo, they're gubbed out of the Champions League, they're 8mth in the EPL - I think that's enough. Torres going back there would just be cruel.

But I sure as hell want rid.

Posted by: Suhail 3 Dec 13 2014, 08:33 PM

I wish we got Javier Hernandez instead of Torres back In Summer

Posted by: Danny Dec 14 2014, 10:39 AM

Mancini now wanting Balotelli at Inter apparently. Sure Robbie, make them even worse why don't you ha.

I know that's not a Milan story but you have to laugh anyway.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Dec 15 2014, 02:20 PM

Rayo Vallecano are interested in signing Michelangelo Albertazzi.

source: milanello/twitter

Posted by: Danny Dec 15 2014, 10:36 PM

Woeful player. Happy to get rid of him. He's worse than Armero.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Dec 16 2014, 12:09 AM

The agent of Ajax midfielder Lasse Schone confirms he had contacts with Milan, but suggests January may be a bit too early for a move.

Milan are reportedly likely to decrease the size of their squad this January as some of their players will be sold or nearing the end of their contracts.

One of the names considered as a replacement is Schone, and the player's agent Rob Groener refused to rule out the possibility of the player moving to the San Siro.

“Best ask Milan,” he said in an interview with MilanNews.

“I've had some contacts with the Rossoneri club. Schone is ready for a quality leap into one of the biggest Italian clubs.

“Ajax would rather not sell him in January but you never know. For sure, a summer transfer would be just the right moment.”

source: footballitalia

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 16 2014, 10:43 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 11 2014, 10:09 PM) *
He's been a diabolical signing.

Yep.

What did we pay for him in total, 20m euros or something?

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 16 2014, 12:28 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Dec 16 2014, 10:43 AM) *
Yep.

What did we pay for him in total, 20m euros or something?


More or less. Completely failed to meet expectations. You can tell he's not very talented. Can't dribble opponents, gets clumsy on the ball, poor finishing. Any offer over €15 million and I would sell him on the spot.

Posted by: Danny Dec 16 2014, 01:03 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Dec 16 2014, 11:28 AM) *
More or less. Completely failed to meet expectations. You can tell he's not very talented. Can't dribble opponents, gets clumsy on the ball, poor finishing. Any offer over €15 million and I would sell him on the spot.


Thing is it's only us 3 who seem to know he's not worth a d*mn. Don't let the secret out. The world thinks he's an incredibly talented hot prospect and him and his cool hairdo could net us £25M in this market.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Dec 16 2014, 01:15 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 16 2014, 03:03 PM) *
Thing is it's only us 3 who seem to know he's not worth a d*mn. Don't let the secret out. The world thinks he's an incredibly talented hot prospect and him and his cool hairdo could net us £25M in this market.


Has he been THAAAT bad this season ?!

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 16 2014, 01:22 PM

QUOTE (d'Arc.LP @ Dec 16 2014, 01:15 PM) *
Has he been THAAAT bad this season ?!


This season and from January to May of 2012. Not counting the 12/13 season cos he was injured. But yeah, he's mostly been crap during those periods.

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 16 2014, 01:26 PM

Speaking of which, Mediaset suggests that we want to offer SES on loan to Roma in exchange for the loan of Destro. We're also interested in Nastasic of City. Another loan.

http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/calcio/calcio/2014/articoli/1053795/milan-nastasic-e-destro-nella-lista-inzaghi-160-.shtml

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 16 2014, 01:36 PM

Nastasić might be good. Destro is totally overrate, why do we even bother?

Posted by: Danny Dec 16 2014, 01:55 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Dec 16 2014, 12:26 PM) *
Speaking of which, Mediaset suggests that we want to offer SES on loan to Roma in exchange for the loan of Destro. We're also interested in Nastasic of City. Another loan.

http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/calcio/calcio/2014/articoli/1053795/milan-nastasic-e-destro-nella-lista-inzaghi-160-.shtml



http://www.milanfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8335&st=1755&p=395166&hl=nastasic&#

Yes. Pure and simple.

Posted by: Danny Dec 16 2014, 01:57 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Dec 16 2014, 12:22 PM) *
This season and from January to May of 2012. Not counting the 12/13 season cos he was injured. But yeah, he's mostly been crap during those periods.


August 2012 - early December that year was the only time in 4 years he looked half decent. 4 months of nearly 48. Nowhere near good enough.

Posted by: Danny Dec 16 2014, 04:41 PM

Taarabt linked for yet another window. Says he'll take a pay cut to rejoin us.

QUOTE
QPR midfielder Adel Taarabt is hoping to leave the club in January for Serie A.

The Moroccan made a surprise move to AC Milan on loan last season, scoring four goals and featuring in the Champions League.

At QPR this season he has barely played, criticised publicly for his fitness by manager Harry Redknapp, and then suffering a groin injury.

He appeared on Monday night as a guest on Sky Italia, and admitted his desire to move back to Italy.

GianlucadiMarzio.com report him as saying: "I miss Italy and Serie A. Now I'm here in London, but I hope that with the new year I can return to Italy. When I returned to England after six months at Milan I said so right away to coach Redknapp and he became angry with me.

"Seedorf wanted me at Milan, then Inzaghi arrived and he went for other names. I would take a pay cut to return to Milan."

He is unsure if he is still wanted at Milan, but says he will consider all offers from Italy even from their rivals Inter.

It's likely QPR may never even see Taarabt play for the club again. Despite their public make-up after their earlier row, it's clear he and Harry Redknapp don't see eye to eye, and an exit seems inevitable.

Taarabt's spell in Italy last season was better than anybody expected, and the fact he is already making appearances on Italian television to raise his profile over there, indicates he is keen to get things moving.

It's a shame as he is a unique talent, who can bring a lot to QPR, but just does not seem properly motivated to stay at the club and succeed. This in itself is reason for them to cash in.

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 16 2014, 05:43 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Dec 16 2014, 01:36 PM) *
Nastasić might be good. Destro is totally overrate, why do we even bother?


Destro is decent. He's certainly better than Torres and Pazzini.

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 16 2014, 04:41 PM) *
Taarabt linked for yet another window. Says he'll take a pay cut to rejoin us.


No, thank you. We don't need any more hot heads.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 16 2014, 06:41 PM

Yes to Nastasic, especially if there's an option to buy.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Dec 18 2014, 01:05 PM

The agent of Milan striker Stephan El Shaarawy has denied all transfer rumours surrounding the player.

Il Faraone has been struggling to find his form since returning from an injury-troubled previous season, prompting speculation that he may leave the Rossoneri either in January or in the summer.

However his brother and agent Manuel El Shaarawy has looked to deny all rumours categorically.

“The mercato rumours are not true,” said the agent to Calcionews24.com.

“Stephan's Rossonero future has never been in question. And I have not been contacted by any other club.

“Stephan's mood is good, he just lacks in scoring a bit. His performances have always been positive. He's concentrated on doing well and finding continuity.”

The agent also spent a few words on the 22-year-old’s feelings about new Italy Coach Antonio Conte.

“He is very happy about Conte's new role on the bench of the national team.

“They spoke and had a face to face. Stephan is a great admirer of Conte, he is enthusiastic.

“He has been utilised as second striker too – he is always available.”

source: footballitalia

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 18 2014, 02:06 PM

dry.gif

Posted by: Danny Dec 18 2014, 11:57 PM

Best way to create interest in the player is by saying he's not going anywhere. There is interest, we know there is, his agent knows there is, but by denying it it only adds to speculation.

After all, it would be a slightly poor comment for an agent to say 'we've had offers' because Milan will not look kindly on that.

Play it kosher with the club and wait for a concrete offer or two to come in, then go public (well, Milan will, not the agent) and create a bidding war.

No point going public now.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Dec 19 2014, 12:34 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 19 2014, 01:57 AM) *
Best way to create interest in the player is by saying he's not going anywhere. There is interest, we know there is, his agent knows there is, but by denying it it only adds to speculation.

After all, it would be a slightly poor comment for an agent to say 'we've had offers' because Milan will not look kindly on that.

Play it kosher with the club and wait for a concrete offer or two to come in, then go public (well, Milan will, not the agent) and create a bidding war.

No point going public now.


Like it happened with Kaka, Sheva, or pretty much every one that was decent and left


Posted by: X-Offender Dec 19 2014, 02:34 AM

Inzaghi said today that El Shaarawy will never leave Milan as long as he's in charge of the team. Let's see how true that turns out to be.

Posted by: han2503 Dec 19 2014, 10:18 AM

I personally can't see him leaving atm. He's obviously in a slump and that effects his price, at this point we'd lose money off of what we initially paid for him. So personally I don't think Galliani wants to sell him right now, maybe if his form picks up again and he starts scoring, that's when he'll jump on any decent offers that come our way

Posted by: Danny Dec 19 2014, 02:36 PM

QUOTE
Stephan El Shaarawy's brother is trying to engineer a move to the Premier League for his sibling.


London Evening Standard.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 20 2014, 01:43 AM

He might be good enough for QPR and... yeah, that's about it.

Posted by: Danny Dec 20 2014, 02:07 AM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Dec 20 2014, 12:43 AM) *
He might be good enough for QPR and... yeah, that's about it.


To give him his dues he WAS good here, just lacked team play. I said at the time he has the tools to be world class, and I stand by that, but his attitude could be his undoing as it has been Balo's.

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 20 2014, 02:38 AM

Taarabt is a hot head in the same mold as Balo. I don't want him back.

Posted by: Danny Dec 20 2014, 03:13 AM

No, Balo thinks football is all about him and puts in effort on the pitch when he can be bothered, and when he can be bothered plays reasonably well but not any better than most other decent strikers.

Taarabt, on the other hand, seems to lack off-field professionalism and an attitude of certain things being beneath him, but on the pitch he never gives less than a 100% even if his lack of willingness to use vision at times is poor. Needs to pass more.

He's a better raw talent than Menez, as he's younger and has more potential, and his skill on the ball is absolutely fantastic, but he doesn't have the same level of end-product as Menez, which is something age and maturity has given the latter, even if his lack of an X button is a problem of selfishness.

When Taarabt was at Milan we saw zero sign of any disharmony from him nor any issues, so even if he has had hot-head association in his career, we saw none of it when he was here. Whereas Balo did it constantly.

Posted by: han2503 Dec 20 2014, 10:23 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 20 2014, 02:07 AM) *
To give him his dues he WAS good here, just lacked team play. I said at the time he has the tools to be world class, and I stand by that, but his attitude could be his undoing as it has been Balo's.

Who are you talking about? SES or Taraabt? unsure.gif unsure.gif

Posted by: han2503 Dec 20 2014, 10:24 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Dec 20 2014, 02:38 AM) *
Taarabt is a hot head in the same mold as Balo. I don't want him back.

Well, to be completely fair to him, he always behaved in the months he was with us

Posted by: Danny Dec 20 2014, 01:25 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Dec 20 2014, 09:23 AM) *
Who are you talking about? SES or Taraabt? unsure.gif unsure.gif


Taarabt...

Posted by: han2503 Dec 20 2014, 02:34 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 20 2014, 01:25 PM) *
Taarabt...

Well he never really displayed any of that behaviour here and I was sort of impressed by his displays.

Although the fact that he was trying to score a permanent deal is probably a major factor as to why he managed to keep himself in check. If we sign him permanently we could start seeing the less appealing side of Taarabt pretty fast

Posted by: Danny Dec 20 2014, 04:42 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Dec 20 2014, 01:34 PM) *
Well he never really displayed any of that behaviour here and I was sort of impressed by his displays.

Although the fact that he was trying to score a permanent deal is probably a major factor as to why he managed to keep himself in check. If we sign him permanently we could start seeing the less appealing side of Taarabt pretty fast


A genuine concern, and one I share, but if he's willing to take a big wage cut it may be a gamble worth taking.

Posted by: maldini03 Dec 20 2014, 10:55 PM

I am happy to hear that we are hanging on to SES. Despite his lack of form in the recent months, he is still only 22 and has the potential to be a great player. I think between Inzaghi and Conte with the national team, they will be able to find a position where he can excel. I believe that Balo's arrival here stunted SES. He took the reigns of the team at a time when we had just lost Ibra, and then we brought Balo who filled the same Ibra mold.

I wouldn't mind Taarabt, but not for more than 5m and ideally on a loan + option. If he doesn't play well we are stuck with another dud we won't be able to get rid of.

Posted by: han2503 Dec 20 2014, 11:07 PM

QUOTE (maldini03 @ Dec 20 2014, 10:55 PM) *
I am happy to hear that we are hanging on to SES. Despite his lack of form in the recent months, he is still only 22 and has the potential to be a great player. I think between Inzaghi and Conte with the national team, they will be able to find a position where he can excel. I believe that Balo's arrival here stunted SES. He took the reigns of the team at a time when we had just lost Ibra, and then we brought Balo who filled the same Ibra mold.

I wouldn't mind Taarabt, but not for more than 5m and ideally on a loan + option. If he doesn't play well we are stuck with another dud we won't be able to get rid of.

I'm not so sure about Pippo being able to do that, he clearly sees him as a winger, when imo, he clearly isn't one.

Sure he's fast, but he's not a good dribbler, and you need that if you're being played in the inverted winger position Pippo has him playing in.

For me he's a striker, I'd rather see him in a front duo next to Menez with Honda or Bonaventura in behind them, it just makes more sense than the ridiculous flat 4-3-3 we usually play when we don't have any real wingers aside from Menez who's never even played on the wings anyway

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 21 2014, 02:47 AM

QUOTE (maldini03 @ Dec 20 2014, 10:55 PM) *
I am happy to hear that we are hanging on to SES. Despite his lack of form in the recent months, he is still only 22 and has the potential to be a great player.


Does he now? I see no potential whatsoever. Pato when we signed him, now he had potential. SES is just an overrated player, nothing else.

Posted by: han2503 Dec 21 2014, 11:12 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Dec 21 2014, 02:47 AM) *
Does he now? I see no potential whatsoever. Pato when we signed him, now he had potential. SES is just an overrated player, nothing else.

Overrated? Sure. Totally agree on that

The level of bad that you, Danny and kurt make him out to be? No.

If we sell him now it will be our loss because I'm 100% sure he'd do well in a properly functioning team that is well coached.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 21 2014, 12:54 PM

Would he? You say Allegri can't coach and that's the only time he was good. So his performances don't really have anything to coaching.

It's easy to see that he doesn't have much to his game. He's fairly quick, but doesn't exactly have elite speed that's usually needed to make up for his lack of size. The technical side of his game is very poor, that's generally something you learn at a young age and won't change now. His finishing is very mediocre.

Posted by: han2503 Dec 21 2014, 01:01 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Dec 21 2014, 12:54 PM) *
Would he? You say Allegri can't coach and that's the only time he was good. So his performances don't really have anything to coaching.

It's easy to see that he doesn't have much to his game. He's fairly quick, but doesn't exactly have elite speed that's usually needed to make up for his lack of size. The technical side of his game is very poor, that's generally something you learn at a young age and won't change now. His finishing is very mediocre.

He's had 3 different coaches during his time at Milan, it's the same thing we're seeing with DS as he hasn't really been in good form since his first season.

As for Allegri, let's not start again with him, you say he's good, I say he's probably one of the worst coaches I've seen in my time as a Milan fan having endured him for 3 and a half years.

I do credit Allegri though with Abate's development as a FB, with introducing DS into the team and giving him an opportunity on that left side and with SES as well who shined for us in probably one of our most dire moments in the past decade

As for SES in general, I think that under the right guidance with a coach who can really utilise his abilities, he'd flourish, especially if he's put into a properly functioning team. If you'd say put him in a Roma or Dortmund I think he'd do great things

Posted by: Danny Dec 21 2014, 01:42 PM

You know an SES fan is getting desperate by saying he's suffering as badly as MDS.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 21 2014, 01:49 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Dec 21 2014, 02:01 PM) *
As for Allegri, let's not start again with him, you say he's good, I say he's probably one of the worst coaches I've seen in my time as a Milan fan having endured him for 3 and a half years.

It wasn't about Allegri and I was looking at it from your point of view. SES has been crap 75% of the time. The only time he was good was under Allegri. Allegri (in your POV) is a crap coach, so clearly him performing well was nothing to do with his coaching, as he has only had bad coaches.

If you don't have technical ability, you need physical traits. SES has little of either.

Posted by: Danny Dec 21 2014, 04:54 PM

Juve looking to sign Falcao in January. Not Milan news but we've been linked with him a lot over the past 6 months. Unfortunately he's a pale imitation of the Porto and Atleti Falcao he once was. Shame, could have been an all-time great if not for that ACL.

Posted by: han2503 Dec 21 2014, 06:05 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 21 2014, 01:42 PM) *
You know an SES fan is getting desperate by saying he's suffering as badly as MDS.

It's obviously different with a striker and a defender because with strikers it's something more tangible that can be grasped in terms of performances, he's scoring = doing well, not scoring = sh!t. With a defender it's far more subjective

DS hasn't been in any sort of decent form for a long while now, how you (of all people) can now try to deny that fact is beyond me since you have been very critical of DS.

We've been talking about his positioning for months now (and I'm totally with you on that), how it's because he was being played on the right and now that he's on the left he's still been massively off colour this season

As for being a fan of SES, I'm not really a huge fan, I think he's talented, but what mostly fuels my defence of him here is the bashing he gets for no good reason aside from struggling for form after an entire season out. You know, with Balo I didn't agree with you guys but I understood where you were coming from, he was not producing what was expected and the extra baggage he brings along with him is just too much hassle to deal with if he's not producing on the pitch.

But I just don't get the very obvious ire some of you guys have towards SES. Even if he's not producing right now, he's always behaved as a model professional, always puts in 110% on the pitch and even when not scoring still puts in a major shift in for the team, I've never personally read anything about his personal life or how he leads it that would make me believe he's wasting away his opportunity partying, etc. And I guess that is why I personally make it a point to defend him.

Listen, if he's sold as soon as the window opens I'm not going to cry my eyes out over it (I'd personally be interested to see how he does for another team), he's not someone I hang all my hopes and dreams for the future of Milan over, I think he has potential, which is why I'm willing to wait him out a bit longer and see how he develops

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Dec 21 2014, 01:49 PM) *
It wasn't about Allegri and I was looking at it from your point of view. SES has been crap 75% of the time. The only time he was good was under Allegri. Allegri (in your POV) is a crap coach, so clearly him performing well was nothing to do with his coaching, as he has only had bad coaches.

If you don't have technical ability, you need physical traits. SES has little of either.

Like I said above, I may not give Allegri much credit but I do credit him for giving certain players chances to really bloom, Abate being one of them, he found himself as a RB under Allegri, same with DS. And same thing with SES.

That being said, his time under Allegri as coach was mostly spent in turmoil, with the coach constantly under pressure and the team sinking to new lows each week. It's not exactly a great environment to really grow as a player, then he had last season which was completely injury riddled. I really don't understand what you guys are expecting from SES at this current point

I know players like Messi have given people insurmountable expectations of what players of SES' age should be capable of but that's really not the reality, what was Ronaldo doing at 22? What was Ibra doing at 22?

As for his characteristics, imo, he is very fast and he is a good finisher. Imo, he's a striker not a winger, which is what's holding him back most now.

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 21 2014, 04:54 PM) *
Juve looking to sign Falcao in January. Not Milan news but we've been linked with him a lot over the past 6 months. Unfortunately he's a pale imitation of the Porto and Atleti Falcao he once was. Shame, could have been an all-time great if not for that ACL.

I don't think any Italian team has any hope in hell of being able to finance Falcao

Posted by: Danny Dec 21 2014, 09:26 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Dec 21 2014, 05:05 PM) *
It's obviously different with a striker and a defender because with strikers it's something more tangible that can be grasped in terms of performances, he's scoring = doing well, not scoring = sh!t. With a defender it's far more subjective

DS hasn't been in any sort of decent form for a long while now, how you (of all people) can now try to deny that fact is beyond me since you have been very critical of DS.


Yes, because for one full season MDS had been really poor. He's finally come out of that slump in his last few appearances before injury.

But one full season where the whole team was really terrible isn't quite the same as the 4 years SES hasn't produced, 4 months aside.

QUOTE
We've been talking about his positioning for months now (and I'm totally with you on that), how it's because he was being played on the right and now that he's on the left he's still been massively off colour this season


Actually if you remember that heatmap I showed you, most the goals he scored during his peak period were from the left. It's where he's mostly played at Milan.

QUOTE
As for being a fan of SES, I'm not really a huge fan, I think he's talented, but what mostly fuels my defence of him here is the bashing he gets for no good reason aside from struggling for form after an entire season out. You know, with Balo I didn't agree with you guys but I understood where you were coming from, he was not producing what was expected and the extra baggage he brings along with him is just too much hassle to deal with if he's not producing on the pitch.

But I just don't get the very obvious ire some of you guys have towards SES. Even if he's not producing right now, he's always behaved as a model professional, always puts in 110% on the pitch and even when not scoring still puts in a major shift in for the team, I've never personally read anything about his personal life or how he leads it that would make me believe he's wasting away his opportunity partying, etc. And I guess that is why I personally make it a point to defend him.


And that is your right, but it is equally our right to castigate him for being astonishingly bad.

QUOTE
Listen, if he's sold as soon as the window opens I'm not going to cry my eyes out over it (I'd personally be interested to see how he does for another team), he's not someone I hang all my hopes and dreams for the future of Milan over, I think he has potential, which is why I'm willing to wait him out a bit longer and see how he develops


48 months is long enough. I'm done with him.

Posted by: han2503 Dec 21 2014, 10:32 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 21 2014, 09:26 PM) *
Yes, because for one full season MDS had been really poor. He's finally come out of that slump in his last few appearances before injury.

But one full season where the whole team was really terrible isn't quite the same as the 4 years SES hasn't produced, 4 months aside.

I don't think he was really coming out of anything in those last few games, I personally always think he's solid defensively but he's been terrible going forward for a while now, and that hasn't really changed this season in any of the games imo

As for SES, I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that it's been 4 years of him being terrible, you make it sound like he came here as some big star not as the teenage prospect that he was and we knew nothing about...

SES' first season he was mostly used as a sub/Coppa player, don't forget that season we still had Ibra, Robinho, Pato and the rest of the gang, it's understandable that a kid making the jump from Serie B to Serie A with those names ahead of him on the team sheet wouldn't make a huge splash, but he did still have some memorable moments that season (that great, crucial goal vs Udine springs to mind)

His second season he was on fire and topping the scoring charts at one point along with Cavani, this while the team was badly struggling. Yes he faded away in the second part of that season, no arguments there.

Last season, what can you say about last season? He was injured for nearly the entirety of it, how that can translate to another horrible season by your account is beyond me

This season again, he's been bad, agree there, but he's started what 10 games? If that.

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 21 2014, 09:26 PM) *
Actually if you remember that heatmap I showed you, most the goals he scored during his peak period were from the left. It's where he's mostly played at Milan.

I was talking about DS there because of Seedorf moving him to the right last season and we (you and I) were blaming his performances on that

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 21 2014, 09:26 PM) *
And that is your right, but it is equally our right to castigate him for being astonishingly bad.

True, my bafflement mostly comes from the sheer vitriol that comes with it, it actually feels like SES did something bad to you guys, I just don't understand that part of it. I understand being disappointed and giving up on him, but for example, the zero and calling him names in your rating when he barley played for 5 minutes? Just totally unnecessary. If it was anyone else, you'd have flagged Pippo for being an @sshole for bringing him on so late on

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 21 2014, 09:26 PM) *
48 months is long enough. I'm done with him.

Re: Above

Posted by: maldini03 Dec 21 2014, 11:25 PM

I am a fan of SES, contrary to many of the viewpoints on here. His best years for this team came when he was the central player in our system. His first year here he was never going to be the leader of the team with Ibra, Robinho, Pato all in front of him. Then we cleared house and he went on a run of great form scoring 14 goals in the league before January. Then we brought in Balotelli, and he became second fiddle again.

When he is out there he gives it all for the team, and I believe that it is just a matter of time before he finds his form again. I honestly believe that he is suited to play as a second striker, as it has been pointed out many times that he is not a dribbler in the mold of Menez, Taarabt, or a player like Gervinho for Roma. I do think he is a good finisher, and his best position is playing off of a Central Striker who can absorb pressure from the central backs.

I see no problem with hanging on to a young player with potential, especially when the alternatives are players with a piss poor attitude, and worse work ethic. At least El Sha will defend and give it all to the team when he isn't scoring goals.

Posted by: Danny Dec 22 2014, 01:26 AM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Dec 21 2014, 09:32 PM) *
I don't think he was really coming out of anything in those last few games, I personally always think he's solid defensively but he's been terrible going forward for a while now, and that hasn't really changed this season in any of the games imo

As for SES, I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that it's been 4 years of him being terrible, you make it sound like he came here as some big star not as the teenage prospect that he was and we knew nothing about...


Teenage prospect or otherwise he's been a disappointment.

QUOTE
SES' first season he was mostly used as a sub/Coppa player, don't forget that season we still had Ibra, Robinho, Pato and the rest of the gang, it's understandable that a kid making the jump from Serie B to Serie A with those names ahead of him on the team sheet wouldn't make a huge splash, but he did still have some memorable moments that season (that great, crucial goal vs Udine springs to mind)

His second season he was on fire and topping the scoring charts at one point along with Cavani, this while the team was badly struggling. Yes he faded away in the second part of that season, no arguments there.

Last season, what can you say about last season? He was injured for nearly the entirety of it, how that can translate to another horrible season by your account is beyond me

This season again, he's been bad, agree there, but he's started what 10 games? If that.


I was talking about DS there because of Seedorf moving him to the right last season and we (you and I) were blaming his performances on that


True, my bafflement mostly comes from the sheer vitriol that comes with it, it actually feels like SES did something bad to you guys, I just don't understand that part of it. I understand being disappointed and giving up on him, but for example, the zero and calling him names in your rating when he barley played for 5 minutes? Just totally unnecessary. If it was anyone else, you'd have flagged Pippo for being an @sshole for bringing him on so late on


I didn't call him names? I said his performance was shite. I never call players names. Zero because he was just terrible. Actually no it was a wise substitution because Menez was absolutely spent (and mildly injured) and we needed quick fresh legs to take us over the last 5 or so minutes. The 5 minutes which were vital. It didn't really matter WHO Pippo brought on there, had it been Torres, Pazzo or SES - we need fresh legs to hold the ball up as much as possible.

As for Pippo being an *sshole, he was one when he brought MvG on for literally 30 seconds a few matches ago. That was just an insult. But 5+ minutes when you need fresh legs up top? Wise sub. Even if SES didn't play well.

Posted by: Danny Dec 22 2014, 01:28 AM

QUOTE (maldini03 @ Dec 21 2014, 10:25 PM) *
I am a fan of SES, contrary to many of the viewpoints on here. His best years for this team came when he was the central player in our system. His first year here he was never going to be the leader of the team with Ibra, Robinho, Pato all in front of him. Then we cleared house and he went on a run of great form scoring 14 goals in the league before January. Then we brought in Balotelli, and he became second fiddle again.

When he is out there he gives it all for the team, and I believe that it is just a matter of time before he finds his form again. I honestly believe that he is suited to play as a second striker, as it has been pointed out many times that he is not a dribbler in the mold of Menez, Taarabt, or a player like Gervinho for Roma. I do think he is a good finisher, and his best position is playing off of a Central Striker who can absorb pressure from the central backs.

I see no problem with hanging on to a young player with potential, especially when the alternatives are players with a piss poor attitude, and worse work ethic. At least El Sha will defend and give it all to the team when he isn't scoring goals.


SES is actually very, very popular among the fanbase. He's not on this forum, but the wider support loves the guy's freakin' guts. So you're maybe in minority here but majority support-wide.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Dec 22 2014, 02:07 AM

Ok so Taarabt was dating this girl i meant in london yesterday, she claims he's moving back to Milan in January. He drinks almost every night, stays up till 2/3am and wakes up to train at 7am. This habit because he is not happy at qpr.

She added, before going to Milan he rarely drank, didnt even stay up late. But since he came back to london, he has picked up bad habits.

Not aure if she is full of ahite or not, but im hoping we can take him on in jan. He has what it takes to do well at 'this' milan.

Posted by: Danny Dec 22 2014, 03:03 AM

Takes a month for an out of shape player to get back into it. Doesn't matter what he's doing now, it's what he'd do for us and I agree with you, he can be a player for this Milan.

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 23 2014, 09:00 PM

Lots of rumors on Cerci for January and Torres off to Atletico or in Brazil.

Posted by: Danny Dec 23 2014, 10:25 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Dec 23 2014, 08:00 PM) *
Lots of rumors on Cerci for January and Torres off to Atletico or in Brazil.


Atleti haven't denied interest. Swap deal for Cerci.

I'd grab that quicker than you can say Nino.

Posted by: han2503 Dec 23 2014, 10:53 PM

If Cerci was any good they wouldn't be trying to offload him a few months into his stay after the money they paid for him

Especially not as a swap for a finished Torres

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 23 2014, 10:57 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Dec 24 2014, 12:53 AM) *
If Cerci was any good they wouldn't be trying to offload him a few months into his stay after the money they paid for him

Especially not as a swap for a finished Torres

But it wouldn't be the first time they offload a player with only few real chances.

Question is, how would Cerci fit into our gameplan? Do we need him? I think we need different kinds of players much more.

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 23 2014, 11:45 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Dec 23 2014, 10:53 PM) *
If Cerci was any good they wouldn't be trying to offload him a few months into his stay after the money they paid for him

Especially not as a swap for a finished Torres


I'm not fond of Cerci, but between him and Torres I'd choose the latter in a heartbeat.

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Dec 23 2014, 10:57 PM) *
Question is, how would Cerci fit into our gameplan? Do we need him? I think we need different kinds of players much more.


Considering we ply 4-3-3 and Cerci is a winger, I'd say he fits perfectly.

Posted by: Danny Dec 24 2014, 03:23 AM

QUOTE
Chelsea striker Fernando Torres could return to boyhood club Atletico Madrid after their president hinted at a deal.

The Spain international joined AC Milan from Chelsea on a two-year loan in August but has yet to re-discover his form.

Enrique Cerezo has refused to rule out the possibility of re-signing the 30-year-old, who left Atletico for Liverpool in 2007.

"He is not here but that does not mean that he won't be," said the president.

Posted by: Danny Dec 24 2014, 07:03 PM

Torres has gone to Atletico and Cerci is ours.

Swap deal agreed with Atleti for 18 months.

Best Xmas present we could have had.

Fantastic deal - get rid of the worst striker this Club has ever seen and replace him with a high-quality 27 year winger.

You'll remember I was aching for us to get Alessio in the summer - I don't mind it being 6 months late.

Getting rid of Torres into the bargain is just sweet as treacle.

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 24 2014, 07:10 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 24 2014, 07:03 PM) *
Torres has gone to Atletico and Cerci is ours.

Swap deal agreed with Atleti for 18 months.

Best Xmas present we could have had.

Fantastic deal - get rid of the worst striker this Club has ever seen and replace him with a high-quality 27 year winger.

You'll remember I was aching for us to get Alessio in the summer - I don't mind it being 6 months late.

Getting rid of Torres into the bargain is just sweet as treacle.


+1

Posted by: Forza Milan! Dec 24 2014, 08:34 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 24 2014, 08:03 PM) *
Torres has gone to Atletico and Cerci is ours.

Swap deal agreed with Atleti for 18 months.

Best Xmas present we could have had.

Fantastic deal - get rid of the worst striker this Club has ever seen and replace him with a high-quality 27 year winger.

You'll remember I was aching for us to get Alessio in the summer - I don't mind it being 6 months late.

Getting rid of Torres into the bargain is just sweet as treacle.

Agreed. I was never sold on Torres, yet I expected a little more out of him. Not 100% sure about Cerci either, but it feels like we are coming out ahead. Have to wonder why Atletico is doing this, though ...

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 24 2014, 09:04 PM

QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ Dec 24 2014, 08:34 PM) *
Have to wonder why Atletico is doing this, though ...


They have many wingers but only one pure striker (Mandzukic). They need a backup for him.

Posted by: Danny Dec 24 2014, 10:12 PM

QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ Dec 24 2014, 07:34 PM) *
Agreed. I was never sold on Torres, yet I expected a little more out of him. Not 100% sure about Cerci either, but it feels like we are coming out ahead. Have to wonder why Atletico is doing this, though ...


I gave him every chance (and indeed was actually optimistic we could turn him around) but by about October it was plain to see he was a total flop. He is absolutely finished and only misguided sentiment from Atleti is making them take him back.

Meanwhile we now get to see Cerci and Menez on our wings, with hopefully a new striker brought in to finish the job.

Destro, anyone?

Posted by: acid911 Dec 24 2014, 10:40 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 25 2014, 03:12 AM) *
Destro, anyone?

Or Immobile. unsure.gif Get him along with Cerci, and third place secured? Maybe?

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 24 2014, 10:59 PM

Yeah, SES for Immobile and we have a very nice Menez-Immobile-Cerci attack.

Posted by: acid911 Dec 24 2014, 11:08 PM

Man, I'm feeling dirty handing out two duds for two better players to two of the clubs I like the most. sad.gif I just hope if these two signings happen (well, Immobile, I mean), then SES and Torres perform as expected at their new locations. Going to feel a little bad about that inside, though I know it's just me.

But we'll have a very capable attack if it happens, and not just on paper. Results should come.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Dec 25 2014, 10:18 AM

I would be ok with SES leaving on a loan, but selling him, not at all. Ok Cerci is good, but not that good as you making him. But if he's already ours, I would like Milan to go after a striker and to get rid of Pazzini. But since that not impossible, since Milan wont be able to buy a striker that we need, I'd rather see SES - Menez - Cerci. I'm sure SES will be back strong after the break.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 25 2014, 10:46 AM

Big Cerci fan. One of the better players in Serie A over the last few years. Thanks it the Christmas present Milan! biggrin.gif

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Dec 25 2014, 12:31 PM

It turns out that Milan will continue to pay Torres' salary while he's at Atlético Madrid. The Spanish club will keep paying Cerci.

Torres will return to Milan if Atlético Madrid decide to sell Cerci to another club next summer.

Milan Channel has also confirmed that the negotiations for the Cerci-Torres loan swap deal are at an advanced stage.

The last few details regarding the Cerci-Torres loan swap deal will be sorted out after Christmas.

source: milanello/twitter

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 25 2014, 03:23 PM

http://lineupbuilder.com/?sk=5vx30

Yes?

Posted by: han2503 Dec 25 2014, 06:12 PM

Is the Cerci -> Torres thing official?

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 25 2014, 08:56 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Dec 25 2014, 06:12 PM) *
Is the Cerci -> Torres thing official?


Not yet.

Posted by: Danny Dec 26 2014, 04:01 PM

Lots of rumours going about re: Cerci deal.

Torres to Atletico is done but apparently WE will be paying the wages?!

Cerci hold up is due to him apparently not being overly enthusiastic about joining Milan - his preference is reportedly Inter, God knows why.

It may go through still but we may end up with a player who doesn't fully want to be here. But supposedly he was told Milan or stay at Atleti.

PS: reports are, on top of the fact he's been a dud at Atleti (due to their play style), that's he's overweight and not fit.

Hope this all works out, he comes here, isn't unfit, is raring to go, and the stuff about him wanting Inter is either untrue or no longer matters.

Posted by: acid911 Dec 26 2014, 10:29 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 26 2014, 09:01 PM) *
Hope this all works out, he comes here, isn't unfit, is raring to go, and the stuff about him wanting Inter is either untrue or no longer matters.

That's too much hope in one sentence, bud. sleep.gif Even for me!

Posted by: Danny Dec 26 2014, 11:55 PM

QUOTE (acid911 @ Dec 26 2014, 09:29 PM) *
That's too much hope in one sentence, bud. sleep.gif Even for me!


Well maybe not - word is the deal is stalling over wages and conditions, and the Inter story is being spread by Interistas annoyed he's choosing us over them after they courted him for ages.

So, maybe ok after all.

Posted by: acid911 Dec 27 2014, 12:53 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 27 2014, 04:55 AM) *
Well maybe not - word is the deal is stalling over wages and conditions, and the Inter story is being spread by Interistas annoyed he's choosing us over them after they courted him for ages.

Ha, nice to know. happy.gif The Inter bit, I mean. The news is hot though, and several of my friends that don't follow Milan are in on it, many thought that only formalities remained. They do know Torres though, so that's probably why. But fingers crossed for a breakthrough, though, of some sorts here.

Our attack is toothless, and that's putting it mildly.

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 27 2014, 04:55 AM) *
So, maybe ok after all.

Yeah, just hope whatever happens is good for all parties involved, both clubs and both players. smile.gif Have soft feelings for all four, and truly, this is one deal that makes sense on so many levels. Could do everyone some good, and as for Torres, well, maybe he can find his drift where it all started.

Even if he doesn't, it will be a full circle for one very good player. Fingers crossed, as said.

Posted by: Danny Dec 27 2014, 03:33 AM

QUOTE (acid911 @ Dec 26 2014, 11:53 PM) *
Ha, nice to know. happy.gif The Inter bit, I mean. The news is hot though, and several of my friends that don't follow Milan are in on it, many thought that only formalities remained. They do know Torres though, so that's probably why. But fingers crossed for a breakthrough, though, of some sorts here.

Our attack is toothless, and that's putting it mildly.


Actually I'd argue it's one great striker away from being brilliant. Menez might be selfish at times but the guy is outrageously talented and scores goals all manner of ways. When he plays like he did V Roma & Napoli he's got every chance of getting back into the French NT. It's inconsistency & attitude that's stopped him getting to the very top of the game. Now add a borderline world class winger (let's not lie, he isn't world class, but he IS very, very good) in Cerci and it just needs that one great goalscorer - an Immobile or Destro is fine by me.

QUOTE
Yeah, just hope whatever happens is good for all parties involved, both clubs and both players. smile.gif Have soft feelings for all four, and truly, this is one deal that makes sense on so many levels. Could do everyone some good, and as for Torres, well, maybe he can find his drift where it all started.

Even if he doesn't, it will be a full circle for one very good player. Fingers crossed, as said.


Meh, I don't share your goodwill re: Torres. I don't give a toosh what happens to him, he's the worst striker I've ever seen at Milan, including Oliveira. He's let down so many of us Rossoneri who had faith in him, and he himself classed the San Siro as his new 'hunting ground'. Hunting what? Ducks? That arrogance coupled with his failure to deliver means I truly ain't interested in what happens to him now.

PS we're also trying to sign Asier Illarramendi on loan. Not sure if that's as a replacement for De Jong or as a backup. Or as well as. Not sure why we'd start with two DMs though.

Right now, real possibility of 2015's Milan being:

------------------------Lopez

Abate----------Alex---------------Zapata/Rami------MDS

-----Montolivo------De Jong------Illa/Bona

-----Menez---------Immobile/Destro--------Cerci

I'm going to be blunt, if that came to pass it would be by a hundred miles the best Milan team we've had since Zlatan's. It would also be a top 3 side in this league. Might even be the best. And is far far more worthy of the Milan name than the shambles we've had for far too long.

Not quite as strong as the Sheva or Kaka-esque Milan of mid-noughties, but much more like what we'd expect. We're not able to sign the world's best players any more, but in the market we ARE in, the above would be absolutely marvellous.

Posted by: han2503 Dec 27 2014, 09:18 AM

Immobile or Destro for me are both players we should stay away from, especially Destro.

As for Cerci, I'm more than willing to give him a chance, see how he does with us, but I don't understand how the logistics of such a deal could ever work out since some people are forgetting the small detail that we do not OWN Torres, he's with us on loan from Chelsea and they're still paying part of his wages. So how can we swap-loan a player that we do not own?

If Cerci came I'd love to see the formation Danny posted above but with SES as the striker.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 27 2014, 12:38 PM

Indeed. I'd pass Destro especially as well.

Posted by: Forza Milan! Dec 27 2014, 01:24 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Dec 27 2014, 10:18 AM) *
Immobile or Destro for me are both players we should stay away from, especially Destro.

As for Cerci, I'm more than willing to give him a chance, see how he does with us, but I don't understand how the logistics of such a deal could ever work out since some people are forgetting the small detail that we do not OWN Torres, he's with us on loan from Chelsea and they're still paying part of his wages. So how can we swap-loan a player that we do not own?

If Cerci came I'd love to see the formation Danny posted above but with SES as the striker.

Chelsea have Costa, Drogba, and Remy. Do you really think they care about Torres, especially the way he has been playing in recent years? (My sense is they are not going to get in the way of any deal as long as it does not involve another EPL team.)

As for SES, I really, really wanted him to succeed. However, at this point I would not mind if he was to depart, as long as we get reasonable value in return.

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 27 2014, 02:06 PM

Apparently Cerci really wants to go to Inter. Meh, what a tw@t...

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 27 2014, 02:07 PM

And just as I wrote that, Sky reports that Cerci has agreed to sign for us. It's almost official.

Posted by: han2503 Dec 27 2014, 02:12 PM

QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ Dec 27 2014, 01:24 PM) *
Chelsea have Costa, Drogba, and Remy. Do you really think they care about Torres, especially the way he has been playing in recent years? (My sense is they are not going to get in the way of any deal as long as it does not involve another EPL team.)

As for SES, I really, really wanted him to succeed. However, at this point I would not mind if he was to depart, as long as we get reasonable value in return.

Whether Chelsea want him or not isn't really the issue here, I don't think they'd care either, BUT we do not own him, so I still don't understand how we could loan him, even if Chelsea don't care, is it even possible to loan a player we don't own? That's what I don't understand, i.e. can the deal really be completed in the manner the media is reporting?

As for SES, I want to see him given a proper chance in the striker position as that is his more natural position imo and he has never been given an opportunity to play there

As for his price, if we sell him now we'd be getting a small amount as he's not in great form and he's coming off an entire season out from injury.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 27 2014, 02:34 PM

After van Ginkel, yet another mercenary who doesn't wanna be at the club but has no alternative it seems. Great.

Posted by: Danny Dec 27 2014, 03:34 PM

Truthfully Pippo? Few players want to go to Milan these days. The only way we can attract them is with wages. We have no CL (or even Europe) to offer and we're midtable.

There's also the problem, in Cerci's case, that his current (former?) manager has such close ties to Inter that it may have 'brainwashed' Alessio into preferring them, on top of the calamatous handling of our own pursuit of him last summer. And of course the simple fact they're in the Europa League and look certain to get to the last 16 past Celtic.

Ultimately we got him, and rid of Torres. Ok it seems he's not a thousand percent loved-up on the idea of us, but do you think anyone we signed last summer really was? As long as he does the job on the pitch and we get stronger, and maybe just maybe get that third CL spot and slowly become more lucrative so players will WANT to come to us rather than it being 'third choice' or whatever.

Posted by: Danny Dec 27 2014, 03:37 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Dec 27 2014, 01:12 PM) *
Whether Chelsea want him or not isn't really the issue here, I don't think they'd care either, BUT we do not own him, so I still don't understand how we could loan him, even if Chelsea don't care, is it even possible to loan a player we don't own? That's what I don't understand, i.e. can the deal really be completed in the manner the media is reporting?


This was a VERY unique loan deal. It was a free transfer in every respect bar the wording. No one goes out on loan for 24 months. It just doesn't happen.

He essentially became our player, we took on all the paperwork, we paid the wages, not a transfer fee, and by the time the loan is over he's a free agent.

That said there's conflicting stories here about who is actually loaning him. Some say Chelsea are, others say us. And there's the bizarre situation where we're going to pay his wages while he's at Atletico. While they pay Cerci's.

It's truly weird.

Posted by: Danny Dec 27 2014, 03:39 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Dec 27 2014, 11:38 AM) *
Indeed. I'd pass Destro especially as well.


He and Immobile are the only two strikers we've been linked to and both are far superior to SES based on goals/form over the past 12+ months. They score goals, for one. Something he doesn't do any more.

But I accept neither are exactly Costa.

But who else do you think this current Milan can actually attract?

Posted by: Danny Dec 27 2014, 03:41 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Dec 27 2014, 08:18 AM) *
If Cerci came I'd love to see the formation Danny posted above but with SES as the striker.


Can't see us getting Illa, most likely our midfield will be Monto De Jong and Bona with Muntari, Essien and MvG in reserve.

As for SES, I won't flog my dead horse on this and would appreciate it if you don't either, but what would your reaction be if we do get another striker (be it Destro, Immobile or another) and he starts scoring immediately? Would you still prefer SES?

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 27 2014, 04:04 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 27 2014, 03:34 PM) *
Truthfully Pippo? Few players want to go to Milan these days. The only way we can attract them is with wages. We have no CL (or even Europe) to offer and we're midtable.

There's also the problem, in Cerci's case, that his current (former?) manager has such close ties to Inter that it may have 'brainwashed' Alessio into preferring them, on top of the calamatous handling of our own pursuit of him last summer. And of course the simple fact they're in the Europa League and look certain to get to the last 16 past Celtic.

Ultimately we got him, and rid of Torres. Ok it seems he's not a thousand percent loved-up on the idea of us, but do you think anyone we signed last summer really was? As long as he does the job on the pitch and we get stronger, and maybe just maybe get that third CL spot and slowly become more lucrative so players will WANT to come to us rather than it being 'third choice' or whatever.


I really don't think Inter being in the EL has anything to do with it. I also don't think Simeone pushed him to Inter because from what I've been reading Atletico were furious at Cerci for risking the operation.

As far as I know, he promised to Mancini that he'd go there. That was before our offer to Atletico. Hence all the stalling. Atletico threatened Cerci he'd warm the bench for the rest of the season if he didn't accept our destination, because they badly wanted Torres.

Cerci on Twitter/FB said that he didn't have any preferences, but that he was simply evaluating all possibilities.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Dec 27 2014, 04:15 PM

Milan Channel has confirmed that Cerci has agreed to join Milan.

Posted by: Danny Dec 27 2014, 04:17 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Dec 27 2014, 03:04 PM) *
I really don't think Inter being in the EL has anything to do with it. I also don't think Simeone pushed him to Inter because from what I've been reading Atletico were furious at Cerci for risking the operation.

As far as I know, he promised to Mancini that he'd go there. That was before our offer to Atletico. Hence all the stalling. Atletico threatened Cerci he'd warm the bench for the rest of the season if he didn't accept our destination, because they badly wanted Torres.

Cerci on Twitter/FB said that he didn't have any preferences, but that he was simply evaluating all possibilities.


So he's not, to quote you, a t*at? tongue.gif

Posted by: Danny Dec 27 2014, 04:19 PM

QUOTE (d'Arc.LP @ Dec 27 2014, 03:15 PM) *
Milan Channel has confirmed that Cerci has agreed to join Milan.


As an aside, is he a left or RW? The pic of him on his Wiki has him as a RW but he's clearly using his left foot.

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 27 2014, 04:30 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 27 2014, 04:17 PM) *
So he's not, to quote you, a t*at? tongue.gif


Depending on what you believe...

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 27 2014, 04:19 PM) *
As an aside, is he a left or RW? The pic of him on his Wiki has him as a RW but he's clearly using his left foot.


He's a RW.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 27 2014, 04:36 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 27 2014, 05:34 PM) *
Truthfully Pippo? Few players want to go to Milan these days. The only way we can attract them is with wages. We have no CL (or even Europe) to offer and we're midtable.

There's also the problem, in Cerci's case, that his current (former?) manager has such close ties to Inter that it may have 'brainwashed' Alessio into preferring them, on top of the calamatous handling of our own pursuit of him last summer. And of course the simple fact they're in the Europa League and look certain to get to the last 16 past Celtic.

Ultimately we got him, and rid of Torres. Ok it seems he's not a thousand percent loved-up on the idea of us, but do you think anyone we signed last summer really was? As long as he does the job on the pitch and we get stronger, and maybe just maybe get that third CL spot and slowly become more lucrative so players will WANT to come to us rather than it being 'third choice' or whatever.

Agreed. But what is Inter offering? An even more depressing season with hopes of once again reaching Europa whereas we fight for the CL? As far as I see it, Cerci isn't exactly a star. He's a flop for Atleti who had 1 good season in Italy. I'd understand the kind of reasoning if it was Mandzukić or Costa we're talking about, but it's Torino's Cerci.

So if the guy prefers an even more unstable environment at Inter, I don't think it's a good buy. It shows he has not heart in this venture, it shows his ambitions are questionable as well. The only thing Inter have at the moment over us is maybe a better wage offer and the Europa league venture. The latter being a very questionable preference motive.

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 27 2014, 05:39 PM) *
He and Immobile are the only two strikers we've been linked to and both are far superior to SES based on goals/form over the past 12+ months. They score goals, for one. Something he doesn't do any more.

But I accept neither are exactly Costa.

But who else do you think this current Milan can actually attract?

Destro is a big gamble I wouldn't take. He isn't exactly a prolific goalscorer and we need one who is.

The way I see it, we can either search for a more seasoned short-term goalscorer like Gilardino (why not indeed?), Gignac or who knows who or a young talent like Kramarić. There are certainly some fine prospects who would be more lucrative for us then the struggling Destro or Immobile (who won't leave Dortmund anyhow).

Posted by: han2503 Dec 27 2014, 04:38 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 27 2014, 03:41 PM) *
Can't see us getting Illa, most likely our midfield will be Monto De Jong and Bona with Muntari, Essien and MvG in reserve.

As for SES, I won't flog my dead horse on this and would appreciate it if you don't either, but what would your reaction be if we do get another striker (be it Destro, Immobile or another) and he starts scoring immediately? Would you still prefer SES?

I was mostly talking about the general concept of the line-up/formation you posted not the specific names, if that were the case I'd have commented on the Rami/Zapata thing over Mexes for example tongue.gif

With SES, you know where I stand and I know where you stand.

For me selling him now while his price is at it's lowest and we'd be losing money on what we initially paid to get him would be plain stupid. I personally don't see Destro or Immobile as superior to him, at all. And personally speaking I'd like to see him getting a proper chance in a position that imo he's more suited to. But that's just me.

As for your scenario, I'd obviously be on board if any player we signed turns into a scoring machine (I just don't see that as likely), even if it means SES sitting out more for now

For me if it's a choice between Immobile or Destro, I'd definitely pick Immobile, I personally don't rate Destro, plus Roma want a lot of cash for him.

With SES in general, I don't see why it has to be an either or situation

SES is versatile, and if we do sign some other striker it doesn't mean that SES is definitely out of the picture (especially since Pippo mostly sees him as a winger)

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 27 2014, 05:16 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Dec 27 2014, 04:38 PM) *
With SES, you know where I stand and I know where you stand.

For me selling him now while his price is at it's lowest and we'd be losing money on what we initially paid to get him would be plain stupid.


What makes you think his price will increase in the future?

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