[han2503]

That is BS. Ambrosini is very good in a lot of things. Why can't you see that? He showed it more than obvious in the first half against Lecce, just to give a recent example.

It's only Lecce? Okay, he showed it also against Real. And the list goes on and on.

And now you come with that burn out stuff again. That's why Ambrosini needs to play less often than last season when he played almost every minute. Some sort of rotation is needed, but for sure he needs to be our regular DM, since he is our best DM.

Yes it's only against Lecce. Against Real last season it was still early in the season, which again points to my earlier comments regarding the need for regular rotation. But look at his Man U and Inter performances, all those occasions he got trampled on, thus we lose the midfield, which results in us losing the game. Point to me other big games last season that Ambro dominated the midfield, especially ones later in the season...

I didn't say Ambro couldn't do anything but head the ball (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) I said that the only thing he really kicks Flamini's @ss at is that attribute. Both are decent ball passers, have a good tackle, Ambro might be stronger physically but Flamini is faster. Imo their pros and cons balance eachother out. And if Allegri is as smart as I think he is he will use both to his advantage, thus playing the appropriate DM in the appropriate game.

Lecce let Pirlo and Ambro have a field day in the midfield. And my point isn't really saying that Ambro is not good enough to play the big games. My point is to rotate him and Flamini effectively, thus not burning either of them out. Last season Ambro's biggest problem was that he was dead tired by the time we reached January, and it will happen again this season if he's constantly played, especially when we're playing 2 games a week. Thus Flamini getting ready to be a regular in the future. I don't know why you're being so defensive about it. It's only natural that this will happen, Ambro cannot keep playing constantly, especially not at his age and in the position he plays, and whether the player who replaces him is Flamini or someone else, it has to happen eventually.

[CHU-LIP]

I said that the only thing he really kicks Flamini's @ss at is that attribute.

Nonsense too. He tackles better, better vision, better concentration, mentally he is miles ahead, etc etc...

The whole team was awful against Inter. Unbelievable you mention this. (And you think of the 2nd match he played as defender against ManU also, right?) In the big games Ambrosini is usually awesome, and I don't see Flamini doing the same.

We agree about some sort of rotation, but you fail to rate/compare him/them correctly IMO, and find BS reasons to make him look less good.

[han2503]

Nonsense too. He tackles better, better vision, better concentration, mentally he is miles ahead, etc etc...

The whole team was awful against Inter. Unbelievable you mention this. (And you think of the 2nd match he played as defender against ManU also, right?) In the big games Ambrosini is usually awesome, and I don't see Flamini doing the same.

We agree about some sort of rotation, but you fail to rate/compare him/them correctly IMO, and find BS reasons to make him look less good.

That's your oppinion. To say mine is nonsense is ridiculous just because I don't agree with you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I wasn't thinking about that Inter game but the second. And against Man U (both games) he got overrun in the midfield, second leg against Man U he only played the second half as a defender, the first half he was in the midfield and one of our worsth players. Why? Because he lost his form due to over playing. Notice all those games mentioned being in the later part of the season. Also I don't see how this is me trying to make Ambro look bad (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) In fact it's more Leo's fault for not playing Flamini more and keeping Ambro in better fitness, thus retaining his excellent form for longer...

[CHU-LIP]

I agree about Ambrosini playing some bad games late in the season since he got over played. I disagree about your way of comparing Ambrosini and Flamini though, which does make him less good than he is IMO. You said he was only aerial better, while you forgot maybe the most important thing: he is mentally far better also. And then still we are forgetting things. As DM is he obvious better.

In fact it's more Leo's fault for not playing Flamini more and keeping Ambro in better fitness, thus retaining his excellent form for longer...

Agreed.

[Dracoris]

Ambro is definitely better, but its a necessity Flamini gets some solid playing time this year. Ambro got very tired around January and it was glaringly obvious.

[X-Offender]

Look guys, the matter is very simple: right now Ambro is much better than Flamini, I think we can all agree on that. Should Ambro play every single match? No. They should be rotated constantly in order to give Ambro some breathing space and also give Flamini important minutes of play time. That's it.

[han2503]

I disagree about your way of comparing Ambrosini and Flamini though, which does make him less good than he is IMO. You said he was only aerial better, while you forgot maybe the most important thing: he is mentally far better also. And then still we are forgetting things. As DM is he obvious better.

It's personal prefernce. Atm no, Flamini isn't better then Ambro, and I never really said that anywhere in my posts. But the gap isn't as large as you're implying. The areal ability is something that Ambro wins hands down at, the other aspects of their game are more debatable. Which is why I mentioned that ability of Ambro's as for me, that's the biggest standout win for him. Other areas some Ambro is better at, Flamini at others. Ambro does tend to do stupid things as well, so he isn't perfect, but he does have a lot more experiance then Flamini, so the mantality thing you have a point on.

Flamini was one of the best DMs in the EPL a couple of years ago, he killed us in the midfield when we played Arsenal. Then he got here and Carlo never played him, because he had this obsession with always fielding Ambro-Pirlo-Rino in the midfield, obviously he can't keep up his performances when he's barely playing and then be expected to just come in and play amazing. Then Leo again had his fixed formation and 11 and never included him until the last 2/3 months of the season when it was becoming apparent that Ambro just couldn't keep up anymore.

So to say that Ambro is the obvious better DM to me is a stretch. Atm yes he is better, but not by far. Next season he'll be 34, which is why we can't expect him to be in top form throughout a season. That's why I'm also concerned with Flamini being at his best for us and integrating himself fully into the team. And in order to do that he needs to start playing more.

[CHU-LIP]

I believe we are discussing details here. We all want rotation, because we all believe Ambrosini should not play as much as last season (but he should be our regular DM), and we all want Flamini to play more games. Flamini won't only backup Ambrosini, but also Boateng (if he preforms well enough to be a starter, I do hope so). So IMO Flamini can play a lot without being an actual starter (but will start many games).

[han2503]

I believe we are discussing details here. We all want rotation, because we all believe Ambrosini should not play as much as last season (but he should be our regular DM), and we all want Flamini to play more games. Flamini won't only backup Ambrosini, but also Boateng (if he preforms well enough to be a starter, I do hope so). So IMO Flamini can play a lot without being an actual starter (but will start many games).

Agreed there

Although I don't know how much Boateng will start as opposed to Seedorf. Allegri so far has given the impression that Seedorf will be a starter for most games. We'll see...

Imo Seedorf right now can only play 45 minutes, after that his performance just drops. Like we saw against Lecce where in the second half he was making a lot of mistakes

[CHU-LIP]

I don't like the idea of Seedorf being a starter (of course he can start some games, but not too often). IMO Seedorf's best at backing up Pirlo. So during games he can sub Pirlo, he can start games when Pirlo can't or need rest, but also he can sub in for a different/defensive midfielder when we need a more attacking midfield to find a goal.

So I hope Allegri played Seedorf a lot because Boateng arrived late in pre-season, and Flamini having sort of injuries?

[X-Offender]

What about Gattuso? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[han2503]

I don't like the idea of Seedorf being a starter (of course he can start some games, but not too often). IMO Seedorf's best at backing up Pirlo. So during games he can sub Pirlo, he can start games when Pirlo can't or need rest, but also he can sub in for a different/defensive midfielder when we need a more attacking midfield to find a goal.

So I hope Allegri played Seedorf a lot because Boateng arrived late in pre-season, and Flamini having sort of injuries?

Who knows really, if this was Carlo, I'd tell you that Seedorf is a definate starter. But Allegri doesn't strike me as a guy who looks to seniority/personal like towards a player to judge who he picks. I think he'll be using Seedorf against the smaller teams, but against tougher teams we will most probably see Boateng/Flamini with Pirlo and Ambro

Also I don't really like Seedorf in the centre role, he's best at playing in that left side of the midfield 3 imo.

What about Gattuso? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Hey don't mock Rino! He was making juggling assists against Lecce (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[CHU-LIP]

Also I don't really like Seedorf in the centre role, he's best at playing in that left side of the midfield 3 imo.

Whenever Seedorf played Pirlo's role, he impressed me, but he also can play as attacking midfielder both in the centre as wide. If we play our 4-3-3 I hope to see a playmaker (Pirlo, Seedorf, Fossati), a DM (Ambrosini, Flamini, Gattuso, Strasser), and someone who offers pace and hopefully also movement (Boateng, Flamini, Merkel).

Against weaker teams, or when we are not winning during a game you can play with both a playmaker (Pirlo) and an attacking midfielder (Seedorf). Else I hope Ibrahimovic will do partly the attacking midfield role (then Pato can go to CF position), but also Ronaldinho can do that partly. Let's say I want to see a lot of movement, which I believe we had against Lecce. I believe Allegri will do a great job here.

[Dracoris]

Whenever Seedorf played Pirlo's role, he impressed me, but he also can play as attacking midfielder both in the centre as wide. If we play our 4-3-3 I hope to see a playmaker (Pirlo, Seedorf, Fossati), a DM (Ambrosini, Flamini, Gattuso, Strasser), and someone who offers pace and hopefully also movement (Boateng, Flamini, Merkel).

Against weaker teams, or when we are not winning during a game you can play with both a playmaker (Pirlo) and an attacking midfielder (Seedorf). Else I hope Ibrahimovic will do partly the attacking midfield role (then Pato can go to CF position), but also Ronaldinho can do that partly. Let's say I want to see a lot of movement, which I believe we had against Lecce. I believe Allegri will do a great job here.

I think Seedorf is the best Pirlo 'alternative' we have. But my solution would be not to play with a Deep lying playmaker like Pirlo if he's out. Something like this:

CF
LS-------RS
Mid------------Mid
Def. Mid
WB DC DC WB
Goal

As Opposed to

CF
LS-----------RS
Mid Pirlo Mid
WB DC DC WB
Goal

Let Strasser/Ambro/Gattuso play as a heavy Def. Mid and let the other Mids take a slightly more attacking role. With Pirlo out, he won't need any bodyguards if a bodyguard is playing his position.

This post has been edited by Dracoris: Sep 5 2010, 08:11 PM

[Jack Bauer]

We are again linked with Poli
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And following Sotiris Ninis
http://www.milannews.it/?action=read&idnotizia=33711