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> EL - Matchday 1 - Austria Wien - Milan, Date: 14/09/17 Time: 19:00 CET

 
amancik
post Sep 16 2017, 03:13 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Sep 16 2017, 08:30 PM) *
Are Milan fans against Inzaghi-style players now?


I don't think Milan fans generally are against Inzaghi-style players. It's just that Inzaghi-style players are icing on the cake type of players. You can't have them as the main man leading the attack for the whole season. Inzaghi excelled because when we were playing with two strikers, Shevchenko was next to him. When we played Inzaghi as a lone striker, Kaka was behind him. My point is that Inzaghi was never the main 'threat' therefore the focus was not on him. These type of strikers, the more they are in the spotlight, the less effective they become and more so if he cannot receive services. But Kalinic and Silva both have something extra that they need not necessarily rely entirely on services from midfield.

So, do not dismiss Cutrone yet. There will be games where he will be exactly what we need. But for the long-haul, Kalinic and Silva should lead the line.
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Danny
post Sep 16 2017, 03:16 PM
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Bear in mind, neither of them have scored in Serie A for us. I think this sudden waxing lyrical about them is a bit premature tbh.

Neither has proven a thing, while Cutrone's scored plenty already.

I await the next Serie A match where one or both of Kalinic or Silva has a rubbish match and guys are suddenly screaming for Cutrone or saying the two of them suck.

Meh.
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amancik
post Sep 16 2017, 03:52 PM
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I don't disagree. Kalinic and Silva have yet to do anything in Serie A. But as I said, they have something more than Cutrone in terms of team play. In the long-run, you'd want that.

But again, like I said there will be times where we'll be screaming for Cutrone. So for the most part, I'd like to see Kalinic and Silva pairing with Calhanoglu pulling the strings behind them. Besides, I'd rather we not put too much pressure on Cutrone and let him develop slowly and surely.

I was one of those who wanted Cutrone to keep playing because he was on a hot streak so for me it was fair to give him the chance to continue that streak. But as we saw against Lazio, there are limitations to his game. Let me reiterate, his game. Not his talent.
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Danny
post Sep 16 2017, 08:30 PM
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As we saw against Lazio, there's limitations to the 4-3-3 used against a half decent team.

It had nothing to do with Cutrone.
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X-Offender
post Sep 16 2017, 10:40 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Sep 16 2017, 12:30 PM) *
If we're going with a 3-5-2 we're looking at any two of Kalinic, Cutrone, Silva and Suso up front. It's not quite MSN but it's not bad and I don't really want to dismiss any of these players for any reason.

I do find it intriguing you don't really want to be positive about his scoring rate; indeed, you're using the same argument against him as many did against Bacca. Are Milan fans against Inzaghi-style players now?


I'm not dismissing Cutrone, at all. I'm just saying Kalinic, Silva and Suso offer much more than just tap-in goals.

And if we really wanna talk about scoring rates, then Silva has the best of all our players, every 68 minutes on average.

QUOTE (Danny @ Sep 16 2017, 12:30 PM) *
To be a right wing back requires quality in both attack and defence. In truth it is barely any different to RB nowadays. So if you think one is better at defending and one is better at attacking then I'm a little confused as to why you would have a preference at all. For me I think both rotate nicely and both are fine options to have, game dependent.

And I'm yet to see Conti produce a good cross so I'll bow to your knowledge of him there.


Wingbacks have less defensive duties, I can't see how you say they barely differ from fullbacks. A fullback in principle is still a defender, whereas a wingback is a midfielder. Obviously both have to defend, but a wingback attacks more and defends less than a fullback.

Oh, and if you haven't seen Conti produce a good cross then maybe you haven't paid much attention to our games.
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Danny
post Sep 17 2017, 11:11 AM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 16 2017, 10:40 PM) *
Oh, and if you haven't seen Conti produce a good cross then maybe you haven't paid much attention to our games.


I'd have to agree of late. I haven't.
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han2503
post Sep 17 2017, 12:38 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Sep 16 2017, 12:30 PM) *
If we're going with a 3-5-2 we're looking at any two of Kalinic, Cutrone, Silva and Suso up front. It's not quite MSN but it's not bad and I don't really want to dismiss any of these players for any reason.

I do find it intriguing you don't really want to be positive about his scoring rate; indeed, you're using the same argument against him as many did against Bacca. Are Milan fans against Inzaghi-style players now?

Inzaghi style players are a luxury that most teams cannot afford nowadays. Not even the most fluid and creative sides out there make use of a poacher. When you have someone like that upfront, you generally feel like you have a numerical disadvantage. We did it in the past with Pippo, nowadays it's just not feasible. I'm not going to go all out and say that Cutrone is simply a Pippo-style player, I haven't seen enough of him to determine that. Bacca in his first season offered much more than just tap-ins while he looked lazy and uninterested last season and that hurt our game a lot.

Point is, when you have players like Kalinic or Sila, you have to play them ahead of the poacher, because they will give you more.

QUOTE (Danny @ Sep 16 2017, 12:30 PM) *
To be a right wing back requires quality in both attack and defence. In truth it is barely any different to RB nowadays. So if you think one is better at defending and one is better at attacking then I'm a little confused as to why you would have a preference at all. For me I think both rotate nicely and both are fine options to have, game dependent.

And I'm yet to see Conti produce a good cross so I'll bow to your knowledge of him there.

Conti was one of the best RWBs in the league last season, no question. His injury will be a massive headache for us.

Abate has been one of my favourite players for a while now, but he's been in a steady decline over these last 3 seasons , he's not as quick, not as good defensively and is getting error prone. A|dd to that he never impressed me as a RWB for Italy, so that's another issue for me

As for defending vs attacking. Let's put it this way, a FB has more defensive duties than a RWB, the positions are different and they're executed differently as well, Conti plays the RWB position perfectly because he loves attacking and is quick enough to get back, I think Abate will find it hard tbh

QUOTE (Danny @ Sep 16 2017, 03:16 PM) *
Bear in mind, neither of them have scored in Serie A for us. I think this sudden waxing lyrical about them is a bit premature tbh.

Neither has proven a thing, while Cutrone's scored plenty already.

I await the next Serie A match where one or both of Kalinic or Silva has a rubbish match and guys are suddenly screaming for Cutrone or saying the two of them suck.

Meh.

Neither have been given a decent chance in Serie A, especially Silva, so how can they score?

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 16 2017, 10:40 PM) *
I'm not dismissing Cutrone, at all. I'm just saying Kalinic, Silva and Suso offer much more than just tap-in goals.

And if we really wanna talk about scoring rates, then Silva has the best of all our players, every 68 minutes on average.



Wingbacks have less defensive duties, I can't see how you say they barely differ from fullbacks. A fullback in principle is still a defender, whereas a wingback is a midfielder. Obviously both have to defend, but a wingback attacks more and defends less than a fullback.

Oh, and if you haven't seen Conti produce a good cross then maybe you haven't paid much attention to our games.

Agreed
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X-Offender
post Sep 17 2017, 02:56 PM
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I have to say that Pippo had more technique than Cutrone. Pippo had a very awkward handling of the ball, so sometimes he looked like he couldn't even dribble. But go look back at some of his goals, the guy was like a snake. What a player!
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han2503
post Sep 17 2017, 04:40 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 17 2017, 02:56 PM) *
I have to say that Pippo had more technique than Cutrone. Pippo had a very awkward handling of the ball, so sometimes he looked like he couldn't even dribble. But go look back at some of his goals, the guy was like a snake. What a player!

Disagree there.

Cutrone can dribble/pass/hold the ball up. Pippo didn't do any of that. I think there's a difference between having good technique and just being able to score nice/improbable goals. As a player Pippo was just awkward and sometimes even funny to watch when he tried to dribble or do anything really outside of the box. Cutrone looks decent on the ball
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post Sep 17 2017, 04:57 PM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ Sep 17 2017, 04:40 PM) *
Disagree there.

Cutrone can dribble/pass/hold the ball up. Pippo didn't do any of that. I think there's a difference between having good technique and just being able to score nice/improbable goals. As a player Pippo was just awkward and sometimes even funny to watch when he tried to dribble or do anything really outside of the box. Cutrone looks decent on the ball


And I disagree. I didn't say that Cutrone cannot do any of those things you mentioned, but as far as proper technique goes, Pippo was far superior. I already said he looked awkward but that doesn't mean he wasn't effective.

If you want a simple example of what I'm trying to say here, then check this goal against Ajax. The way he controls the ball, dribbles the defender and makes the cross (albeit deflected). That is pure technique. If he didn't have that then he wouldn't have scored so many goals in his careers. Sometimes instinct alone is not sufficient.
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Danny
post Sep 17 2017, 09:04 PM
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Will you two get a room where you can agree and disagree with each other like a married couple (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
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