[Bluesummers]

I personally dont like how we are acting and certanly dont like how galliani always goes for the bargain deals. Now thats me.

But what i want to know is why do we even have debt and why is it that we seem so poor now adays. I know were not in CL but we should have enough revenue coming in as it is.

To me it seems like silvio doesnt care about the club anymore and is not funding it. Which to me is absolutely ridiculous. Whats the point of him being the owner if hes not gonna fund milan anymore. I'm not saying we should spend like chelsea every season but if we need a player in some department really badly and we ignore him because his price tag is a little higher than average, then something is wrong.

Look at this season. In order to sign worldclass foreward we've had to sacrifice a wc goalie and cb because we milan dont seem to be as rich as we were once. Inter spends more than us yet we are the ones with more money.


anyways discuss.

This post has been edited by Bluesummers: Jun 6 2008, 06:48 AM

[Jack Sparrow]

Possibly Finninvest does not want a huge amount of money spent? Since unlike Inter or Chelsea, this isn't exclusively Silvio's plaything. He has to answer a board etc. And the fact is Milan is Finninvest's lossmaking venture. And the economy of Italy isn't helping Finninvest either.

I'm not too worried about Chelsea or Man U. Man U for instance due to their debts have found themselves in the situation where they could be in serious financial trouble, if they don't finish in the quarters of the CL every season from now, for quite some time. And with Cristiano Ronaldo saying he's leaving...they might in a bit of a pickle. Chelsea...well 600 million pounds debt owed to Abramovich. Thank god for them, it's interest free. But if Roman decided he wanted out, they'd be f@cked.

Inter, have Moratti. He's the exception to the rule, since Inter seem to be the only Italian club who're spending crazy. But then they have a 100 million pound debt, and I don't think we know the deficit either. (I can't be sure about this though, it was some article Iread somewhere). The fact is winning the scudetto doesn't help Inter much, since there's not a lot of money being made. The money still comes from CL, and hence Mourinho is a last ditch attempt. If the Mourinho move fails, then Inter are in some trouble. (OF course Moratti can keep pouring in money).


As for the Silvio issue, well I can't say. He's into his 70s, maybe a little less flamboyant now. He's not looking to make a big name for himself by throwing out money every now and then. Besides he bought the club back in the 80s and after 20 years we still can't sustain ourselves. Mainly because of the huge loss we undertook in the mid-late 90s. When we bought all those stars and got shite. (well one scudetto!) I think Milan will splash, but they no longer want to chase any player and buy him to prove a point to the other clubs.

Milan don't believe in the galatico philosophy. Been there, done that, didn't work. While Madrid, Chelsea, Barca, Inter still do. We're a lot more cautious in our dealings now. One of my friends said it best. Nowadays for Milan, the mercato is a chessgame and not a game of poker where you up the stakes. Pato is a good buy. Whether you want to say, Brazillian influence or what not, fact is he wouldn't have signed up without being shown the money.

They're taking this rebuilding thing very seriously, and believe they'll only get one shot at it, and they can't afford to keep tweaking it left and right. So Pato is an excellent purchase. 14 million well spent. Gourcuff was not...6 million gone. Gila was not..net 11 mill loss.

Abbiati was first choice Milan keeper for 4 years, till Dida established himself as one of the best. Abbiati left for first team football, not because he was not good enough. I mean when Buffon is injured, and Juve say they want Abbiati as replacement, it means he isn't hopeless. And if you look at bang for buck, Abbiati is a prudent investment, maybe not longterm(too early to say), but still a good investment.

So far this new look team of ours has brought in Pato, Flamini and Zambrotta. All good enough to be first 11. And we already have a spine of Pirlo, Rino, Kaka, Seedorf, Nesta. So things are not horrible.

We're ok in the market, just careful. Too early to pass judgement.

Oh and don't believe the Maldini issue. It's just not possible. Remember how the Rino argument was supposedly because he wasn't given enough money? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) And it turned out to be, merely clarifications on the future,and a bit of self doubt.

I already posted my thoughts on Maldini elsewhere. He's just weighing his options. It's not about the money. Can't be.

[morgoth]

Possibly Finninvest does not want a huge amount of money spent? Since unlike Inter or Chelsea, this isn't exclusively Silvio's plaything. He has to answer a board etc. And the fact is Milan is Finninvest's lossmaking venture. And the economy of Italy isn't helping Finninvest either.

I'm not sure about Milan being "financially" linked to fininvest ...

Abbiati was first choice Milan keeper for 4 years, till Dida established himself as one of the best. Abbiati left for first team football, not because he was not good enough. I mean when Buffon is injured, and Juve say they want Abbiati as replacement, it means he isn't hopeless. And if you look at bang for buck, Abbiati is a prudent investment, maybe not longterm(too early to say), but still a good investment.

The zebras didn't want Abbiatti, Milan gave him because Buffon was injured by Kaka as a compensation!

[Jack Sparrow]

Milan is actually in private hands. But these private hands happen to be Finninvest. At least that's how I understood it.

I didn't say Abbiati was as good as Buffon. I meant he was in second tier. And the zebras could just have refused, if they hated him so much. He played close to 20 matches that season. Fair enough.

[dst]

The zebras didn't want Abbiatti, Milan gave him because Buffon was injured by Kaka as a compensation!

Yes it was at the Trofeo Berlusconi, right? Or TIM Cup?

[Zed.D]

Abbiati was first choice Milan keeper for 4 years, till Dida established himself as one of the best. Abbiati left for first team football, not because he was not good enough. I mean when Buffon is injured, and Juve say they want Abbiati as replacement, it means he isn't hopeless. And if you look at bang for buck, Abbiati is a prudent investment, maybe not longterm(too early to say), but still a good investment.

They didn't say they wanted Abbiati. we offered him to them just because it was Kaka who injured Buffon. sportsmanship (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[Jack Sparrow]

The Luigi Berlusconi trophy is what wiki says.

Well my point is, that if Abbiati were so bad, Juve could have said, 'Thanks but no thanks!'...they took him is my point. I don't get why we make him sound like he's the anti-christ!

[Rossoneri7]

The Luigi Berlusconi trophy is what wiki says.

Well my point is, that if Abbiati were so bad, Juve could have said, 'Thanks but no thanks!'...they took him is my point. I don't get why we make him sound like he's the anti-christ!

Juve wanted to buy Abbiati after that season. He was immense for them !!

[Zed.D]

The Luigi Berlusconi trophy is what wiki says.

Well my point is, that if Abbiati were so bad, Juve could have said, 'Thanks but no thanks!'...they took him is my point. I don't get why we make him sound like he's the anti-christ!

Of course he is good enough as a club's #2 goalkeeper. problem is that he is not that good to be a club like Milan's #1. I think if we had the CL next season, they would have brought a better 'keeper. hopefully next year...

[Bluesummers]

thanks jack. It makes alot of sense now. And again, your essays are amazing. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[whoarethepatriot...]

£32 million on Adebayor is a potential "big" signing. I am against it but its a possibility nontheless

£15m on an unproven 17 year old curly haired Brazilian
£12m On Olivera
£17m On Gila

These were in recent years. Most clubs cant afford the luxury on spending vast amount of money on a teen but we can. The team isnt poor, instead the investors/owners (Finnivest?) seem to invest carefully and as someone said before we dont really have a sugar daddy

Do you realise we spent well over £100 million investing in the faded golden generation

[Bluesummers]

£32 million on Adebayor is a potential "big" signing. I am against it but its a possibility nontheless

£15m on an unproven 17 year old curly haired Brazilian
£12m On Olivera
£17m On Gila

These were in recent years. Most clubs cant afford the luxury on spending vast amount of money on a teen but we can. The team isnt poor, instead the investors/owners (Finnivest?) seem to invest carefully and as someone said before we dont really have a sugar daddy

Do you realise we spent well over £100 million investing in the faded golden generation

i know but thats not even near the amount that others teams ahve spent, real/manu/barca/chelsea etc. I know we were smart and if we bought all those greats for 100 million tahts amazing but our spending is on the same scale as fiorentina. We are not considered a titan in the mercato anymore as we used to be.

[m1ke]

^^ And yet we've done just as well in the past 5 years (if not better) than the other 4 teams you've mentioned.

Why does Milan seem like a poor club? I don't know - we're certainly not like Madrid in the market, but that's not a bad thing. Milan will buy when they need to buy, but they also have faith in the players that have proven themselves in the Red&Black.

Let's wait and see what happens at the end of August.

[Portman]

The problem is not being poor or looking like poor.

The problem is that our management keep talking about world-class players when they know they'll never be our players. Just for the 'abbonamenti' (season-ticket).

It's a smart move. Milan is the most powerful club in Italy towards the media (Mediaset, Berlusconi, Galliani...) so we use it well trying to get the precious 40.000 s-ticket every year.

Last season the Mr X around Eto'o, Drogba and Ronaldinho end up being... Emerson. Pretty pathetic and we were European Champs. Let's not forget it.

This year is exactly the same: we're signing average players, freebies or 30 yo past their best. Not what the team needs.

Only a pure idiot - Galliani - would classify this mercato a good one [until now].

For example: Madrid and Calderon talk a lot but they actually search and buy the best out there. And we talk too much and do little.

We should stop this shite and be quiet once and for all. Less talk, more action: prima la rifondazione poi gli abbonamenti.

[Bluesummers]

The problem is not being poor or looking like poor.

The problem is that our management keep talking about world-class players when they know they'll never be our players. Just for the 'abbonamenti' (season-ticket).

It's a smart move. Milan is the most powerful club in Italy towards the media (Mediaset, Berlusconi, Galliani...) so we use it well trying to get the precious 40.000 s-ticket every year.

Last season the Mr X around Eto'o, Drogba and Ronaldinho end up being... Emerson. Pretty pathetic and we were European Champs. Let's not forget it.

This year is exactly the same: we're signing average players, freebies or 30 yo past their best. Not what the team needs.

Only a pure idiot - Galliani - would classify this mercato a good one [until now].

For example: Madrid and Calderon talk a lot but they actually search and buy the best out there. And we talk too much and do little.

We should stop this shite and be quiet once and for all. Less talk, more action: prima la rifondazione poi gli abbonamenti.

thats what it looks like to me. But its not like we dont have money so i dont get why we dont look coverage i mean i know we dont have as much money as everyone else but comon you know, the cheapness and getting bargain deals instead of quality players really upsets alot of people. We could have splashed on lahm for example or alves or even vargas but we went for the quick fix, which is zambro. Zambro is wc no doubt but wouldn't buying a younger more promising rb/lb be a better choice. thats my opinion anyways.

[armiss]

Market as everybody know will be confusing more & more , there is so many people out there that use this fuss and make milions & milions , yes we are so excited as fans and we are very angry about this kind of money payment that Milan have , but the truth is out there and our management know very well that if they give in to the market & media voices every year they must waste their money . this kind of marketing needs good experience and watchful eyes , sometimes as everybody else we havent luck like Gilardino or Ronaldo cases but in average we did very good . in some moments specially like past year that we were lazy in market i was very angry about Galliani but after all we can back on track ! if we were not successful in our games in these years , fans were right , but we were very good most of the times !

[Jack Sparrow]

Here's an interesting wiki entry. Also seems to have figures. I love how Inter's debt as % of value is mentioned as n/a (Not applicable?? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) )

But I'm not clear on the terminology. Can someone help me out.

For instance, when it says that Debt as % of Value for Man U is 84%, does this mean, that 84% of Man U's total worth is owed to somebody? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

So as suspected Bayern and Milan are the strongest financially (no debts), but Bayern is still bigger than Milan, with a much larger operating income as well. In fact even Roma has a larger operating income than Milan. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Can anyone tell me what % change on year means?

Richest football clubs

This post has been edited by Jack Sparrow: Jul 1 2008, 08:18 AM

[amancik]

For instance, when it says that Debt as % of Value for Man U is 84%, does this mean, that 84% of Man U's total worth is owed to somebody? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
Richest football clubs

Yeah I believe it is exactly what you think it is, 84% of Man. Utd's value is debt!
That's a staggering $ 1,220,520,000 of debt!!!!

So as suspected Bayern and Milan are the strongest financially (no debts), but Bayern is still bigger than Milan, with a much larger operating income as well. In fact even Roma has a larger operating income than Milan. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

Can anyone tell me what % change on year means?
Richest football clubs

% change on year is the percentage of value change actually. If we look at the stats our value has dropped 10%

[Jack Sparrow]

Ahh...thanks amancik.

1.2 billion dollar debt. Yeesh!!

[amancik]

Ahh...thanks amancik.

1.2 billion dollar debt. Yeesh!!

Yeah, imagine if FIFA issue the debt-free clubs thing. What the heck are they gonna do?

[kurtsimonw]

I think the debts may even be bigger now, that's an old list. I know because Villa moved up a place on the new one. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[kurtsimonw]

Forbes 2008 Soccer Valuations

Here's the newest list. Uniteds debt is £500m. Look at it as you will though, Chelsea have zero debt, yes that's right. None at all.

What's even more surprising to me is that not only United are the highest valued sports team in the World, they're $300m ahead of they're nearest competitor! (The Dallas Cowboys).

I really feel sorry for Valencia. They're valued at $254m, but have a debt value of $403m. Ouch.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Jul 1 2008, 12:14 PM

[Milan Are Brilli...]

Yeah United's is going down quite rapidly though seeing as it used to be like £800mil when the American's took over.

I'm not sure with Chelsea, I've seen a few articles saying Roman's money is on an interest free loan basis to the club rather than a gift, not sure how much truth is in that though.

[acid911]

I'm not sure with Chelsea, I've seen a few articles saying Roman's money is on an interest free loan basis to the club rather than a gift, not sure how much truth is in that though.

Very much. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Basically, Roman's given them interest free loan up till now. If and when he decides enough is enough, and wants his money back, Chelsea are funked. Not many people, companies or establishments can create 500 million pounds out of thin air. So basically Chelsea are safe for now, but if Roman wants out, they'll have to go over all their options.

Good thing I don't owe people money. Much.

[kurtsimonw]

Off topic.. but you have the most random sig I've EVER seen, acid. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[acid911]

Off topic.. but you have the most random sig I've EVER seen, acid.

Hehe, yeah. It's also one of the longest, and without doubt the funniest sig I've ever seen. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Just thought it looks good, but will change it, of course, when something important happens. Glad it took your attention, though.

[Jack Sparrow]

Ok...my turn to do a zd....acid...are you a woman? Or is it just when you yawn?

As for Chelsea...yeah..they were in deep shite, when Roman came up with a 578 mill interest free loan or something, which enabled them to clear all their outstanding debts and buy some(a lot of (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) ) new players.

[Numero uno fanta...]

Have no fear my fellow milan fans...this team is a cat that always lands on her feet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[acid911]

Ok...my turn to do a zd....acid...are you a woman? Or is it just when you yawn?

Lol, I've learned this new thing from dst. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) I can, um, shift. Besides yawning is good. Pity I changed my last signature; it was one of my favorite. Lengthy and random, but interesting, nonetheless.

[acid911]

Have no fear my fellow milan fans...this team is a cat that always lands on her feet

Rightly said. It does take time, however, for one cycle to change and another one to begin. Our new signings are a step in the right direction, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) We have to keep building.