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> The Road to the EURO 2008, EURO 2008 qualification here

 
misha
post Oct 4 2006, 01:42 PM
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QUOTE (dst @ Oct 4 2006, 01:31 PM)
yes but Seedorf had not shown any signs of passion last season ...
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Maybe ,but they needed player like him there
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dst
post Oct 4 2006, 01:49 PM
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QUOTE (mishale @ Oct 4 2006, 03:42 PM)
Maybe ,but they needed player like him there
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to fire them up ?? (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
IMO it was the right decision by MVB because last season was a WC one ... he should have tried more to earn a place in the NT squad and not just rely on his name !!
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misha
post Oct 4 2006, 01:53 PM
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QUOTE (dst @ Oct 4 2006, 02:49 PM)
to fire them up ??  (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
IMO it was the right decision by MVB because last season was a WC one ... he should have tried more to earn a place in the NT squad and not just rely on his name !!
*

It was never about his ability it was personal
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Rossoneri7
post Oct 4 2006, 01:58 PM
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QUOTE (pKillerMax @ Oct 4 2006, 05:48 AM)
I think Van Basten was a extraordinary player, but he is a weak coach. His line ups and subs were sometimes simply just laughble...
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Well, a weak coach is far off, but I get where your coming from .. He is inexperienced .. (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .. True, but I mean Marco Van Basten got through the most difficult group stage in the WC .. Not any manager can turn to luck when he has opponents such as Cote D'Ivore, Argentina, and Serbia (well ok not Serbia, but still...) .. And he did that with the line ups you were talking about, the subs, etc .. Plus, as some have already stated, without the experience of Seedorf and others.

So you see, if MVB can get his young team through the group stages of the WC, then he has done great for an inexperienced coach, such as himself. And as the Dutch football federation still have him as the coach, I think he can turn the tide for them.
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dst
post Oct 4 2006, 02:01 PM
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QUOTE (mishale @ Oct 4 2006, 03:53 PM)
It was never about his ability it was personal
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Come on now ... personal ??? Seedorf was playing mediocre last year and that's what MVB's decision was based on !! Personal my @ss ... I wouldn't have chosen him too. You know very well to defend ES but you are quick to accuse MVB of putting personal choices over the team's good !!

Well done ... keep up your fairness !!
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misha
post Oct 4 2006, 02:06 PM
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QUOTE (dst @ Oct 4 2006, 03:01 PM)
Come on now ... personal ??? Seedorf was playing mediocre last year and that's what MVB's decision was based on !! Personal my @ss ... I wouldn't have chosen him too. You know very well to defend ES but you are quick to accuse MVB of putting personal choices over the team's good !!

Well done ... keep up your fairness !!
*

It's a well known fact that they just don't get along.
I'm just saying what I have heard and there is no connection between the two things. MVB was one of my favorites players .
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misha
post Oct 4 2006, 02:11 PM
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QUOTE (dst @ Oct 4 2006, 03:01 PM)
I wouldn't have chosen him too.
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Almost every other coach would have choose him .Do yoy honestly believe that he doesn't deserve to be in 23 player squad?
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dst
post Oct 4 2006, 02:13 PM
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QUOTE (mishale @ Oct 4 2006, 04:06 PM)
It's a well known fact that they just don't get along.
I'm just saying what I have heard and there is no connection between the two things. MVB was one of my favorites players .
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I don't like him as a coach but IMO it is unfair to say such a thing for him. It's also probably only something that the media came up with !! What's known though (Bergkamp siad so) is that most players and MVB in personal did not get along well with Robben, still he was in the squad cause he was playing good all season long ... I don't think anyone selected was chosen after personal liking ... maybe some were left out while they could have been there but IMO everyone deserved to be there (besides Van (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/puke.gif) Bommel), there's no room for all.
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dst
post Oct 4 2006, 02:15 PM
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QUOTE (mishale @ Oct 4 2006, 04:11 PM)
Almost every other coach would have choose him .Do yoy honestly believe that he doesn't deserve to be in 23 player squad?
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Thats' what I'm saying there ... IMO it's not about deserving it, you have to earn your place every time and Seedorf did not seem to care enough so ...
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misha
post Oct 4 2006, 02:24 PM
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QUOTE (dst @ Oct 4 2006, 03:15 PM)
Thats' what I'm saying there ... IMO it's not about deserving it, you have to earn your place every time and Seedorf did not seem to care enough so ...
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He new already that he is not gonna be there. He wasn't in the qualifying or friendly matches before.
Acording to what I know, there were always feuds in the dutch NT and he wanted to throw out some players(Seedorf ,Davids...) in order to make good environment in the team .

This post has been edited by mishale: Oct 4 2006, 02:25 PM
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dst
post Oct 4 2006, 02:28 PM
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QUOTE (mishale @ Oct 4 2006, 04:24 PM)
He new already that he is not gonna be there. He wasn't in the qualifying or friendly matches before. 
Acording to what I know, there were always feuds in the dutch NT and he wanted to  throw out some players(Seedorf ,Davids...) in order to make good environment in the team .
*

he did not have a good season before the last one as well ... but whatever we don't know !!
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misha
post Oct 4 2006, 02:31 PM
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QUOTE (dst @ Oct 4 2006, 03:28 PM)
he did not have a good season before the last one as well ... but whatever we don't know !!
*

But don't you think it's a little bit strange that during MVB time in the NT he didn't got even one chance to play there?
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dst
post Oct 4 2006, 02:34 PM
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QUOTE (mishale @ Oct 4 2006, 04:31 PM)
But don't you think it's a little bit strange that during MVB time in the NT he didn't got even one chance to play there?
*

No
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misha
post Oct 4 2006, 03:02 PM
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QUOTE (dst @ Oct 4 2006, 03:34 PM)
Van Basten the 50s revivalist?

August saw 82-year old Faas Wilkes die.
He was the first real international Dutch star, a prolific striker for Internazionale and Valencia in the early fifties. Wilkes was one of a handful of internationals who escaped domestic football and its amateur structure. The price these legionnaires paid was exclusion from playing for their country. In those days the Dutch FA (KNVB) chose to ban all professionals from their ranks.


When Wilkes left for Italy in the summer of 1949 the Dutch team had lost only once in two years. In the next five Holland won just four times and did not even enter qualification for the World Cup as they were afraid of an embarrasment.

When the KNVB were forced to embrace professionalism in 1954 the legionnaires could make their return in the national team. It took another twenty years to make a decent impression on international football.

At the funeral of Faas Wilkes the current chairman of the KNVB, Joe Sprengers, apologised for the ban: 'The KNVB were obsessed with amateurism at the time. We should have acted differently and feel sorry for Faas Wilkes. Dutch football fans were denied his great talents in the national team during the years he played abroad. We were wrong.'

Maybe in another half-a-century a chairman will speak to gathered mourners and apologise that the then deceased ex-Barcelona/Real/Inter or Milan-star was banned from several big tournaments.

'Sorry for our appointment of Marco van Basten,' his words might be. 'We were wrong.'

What is with this coach? As soon as Dutch star players take up a contract in a city more than an hour's flight away, their place in the squad is in jeopardy. You may have won three Champions Leagues (Seedorf), just one (Davids and Van Bommel) or been a topscorer of a big league abroad (Makaay and van Nistelrooy), but that does not mean you get the nod over the likes of Martijn Meerdink, Theo Janssen or Demi de Zeeuw.

Seedorf has never had a look in since Van Basten started, while Davids and Makaay had infrequent call-ups until last year. 'Big names are not necessarily big players,' Van Basten once said.

Mark van Bommel and Ruud van Nistelrooy are the latest victims. The surprising omissions gobsmacked the entire Dutch press who had not believed the rumours that went around over the summer. Van Basten is not one to explain much of his selection criteria but he seems to be averse to older players at big clubs.

If it was not confusing enough, Johan Derksen then published a column in his magazine Voetbal International on the day Holland played Ireland, telling his readers that Van Basten is no top coach and has made several big errors over his two years in charge.

Derksen is the editor of Holland's only football weekly, a pundit in two television talk shows on football every weekend and a self-proclaimed friend of Johan Cruyff. His opinion counts in the Dutch football world.

In this critical piece Derksen burned Van Basten to the ground for his treatment of the old guard. Why would Derksen suddenly turn against the coach?

Some say that Van Basten is out of control and not listening to the great Cruyff any more. To regain his influence over squad selection the former captain has apparently instructed Derksen to slight his protege in a magazine which is one of the best selling periodicals in the country. As history shows, Cruyff likes to use the press to put his points forward.

While thousands of readers were glancing over the vitriolic content of the mag's backpage column that night, the subject of the mud-slinging was smiling modestly all over their televisions while celebrating a 4-0 victory at Landsdowne Road. His starless team had just ripped Ireland to pieces.

Debutant Stijn Schaars of AZ played a blinder as a link-up between defence and attack to give the team control in midfield. Therefore Rafael van der Vaart could concentrate on his delivery to the strikers, especially Klaas-Jan Huntelaar.

Huntelaar is a different player than latest galactico Van Nistelrooy. At the World Cup Van Nistelrooy suffered through the antics of Arjen Robben and Robin van Persie, who hardly gave him a decent ball.

Impatience made him run into holes and back again, offside and onside to somewhere in midfield and then on the wings. The result was that Ruud was usually everywhere on the pitch except in the right place at the right time to score.

Van Basten choose to keep the wingers in his team and sacrificed his former top scorer to exchange him for a striker who would be more suited to playing between the Robben-van Persie-tandem. At the World Cup Dirk Kuyt turned out not to be that man as he sank without trace in the second round match against Portugal.

Then in Dublin Huntelaar got his chance and succeeded. The Ajax frontman has that rare calm not to be bothered when he is not involved in the game.


JamieMcDonald/GettyImages
Klaas-Jan Huntelaar did much to curb the brickbats aimed at Van Basten.He won't drop in midfield to get a touch of the ball or make unnecessary runs just to show he is around. Just wait and wait and wait, until the smallest of chances arrives and bang...it is a goal. A nightmare for a defender who thinks he has Huntelaar under control. Two goals and two assists were the quite sensational facts of his international debut. Another feelgood story in Van Basten's trial-and-error regime.


Of the sixteen players that Van Basten put on the pitch in Dublin only four have spent more than one season abroad.

It looked almost a 50's revival with this strengthened Eredivisie XI. But not for long.

Since the Ireland game André Ooijer, Dirk Kuyt and Joris Mathijsen have signed for clubs in the UK and Germany.

So while Van Basten may have made some errors and wrong turns recently, there is no denying that he has helped a string of seemingly mediocre clubmen not only to caps but also to the lucrative foreign transfer they always hoped for.

Khalid Boulahrouz tops the charts with his incredible transfer to Chelsea; he was an ordinary mid-table kicker at the time of Euro 2004.

Van Basten selected him and he was soon off to the Bundesliga and now to the Premier League. All these transfers have filled the coffers of a large number of Dutch clubs. And that can't be a bad thing. 

espn
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Rossoneri7
post Oct 4 2006, 03:11 PM
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QUOTE
'Big names are not necessarily big players,' Van Basten once said.


What more can I add to that ... (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/king.gif)
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