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> Serie A 2020/2021 season, League related discussion / All Milan Games

 
kurtsimonw
post Apr 19 2021, 04:30 PM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ Apr 19 2021, 02:06 PM) *
It''s an amazing thing for all involved.

Yeah, all 12 clubs.

The idea that a league will be governed by directors of these clubs, and rules are in place so that they can never lose their place. It's utterly disgusting.

I'm not thinking of this as the death of football. It's the rebirth. We created the first football league. A league that existed and flourished without these 6 companies.

Many clubs have succeeded. Earned their way to success. Fallen off. That's competition, that's football.

Football in England without these 6 clubs will be exactly that. Football. 20 Premier League football clubs with supporters. Losing 6 companies and their customers are no loss. It's a massive net gain.

There's also a huge, huge correlation between those that support the ESL and those that don't attend football matches. Customers, not fans.
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kurtsimonw
post Apr 19 2021, 04:34 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Apr 19 2021, 12:22 PM) *
Just so I'm clear guys - you lot have been whining about FFP, about UCL, about elitist clubs for the past 10 years, the greed of EPL, UEFA, FIFA - and now something comes along to shake it all up and potentially change the landscape forever, and you... OPPOSE that?

I might be the only fan on earth who actually likes the fact something has come along which opposes the monopoly of UEFA and FIFA and the PL.

Why SHOULDN'T clubs use their brand to grow even more? Milan are garbage, but we have a decent brand - and now we have a new avenue to grow properly.

And the knock on effect sees smaller clubs given more of the spotlight in big leagues because the heavy hitters have left.

Must be the only fan who isn't worried about this at all.

I agree with this, based on the point that these clubs LEAVE their domestic leagues.

Let the worldwide customers have their franchises. Let us fans have our football clubs.

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kurtsimonw
post Apr 19 2021, 04:42 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Apr 19 2021, 04:23 PM) *
What about the other clubs? What incentives would they have? Napoli, Roma, Atalanta, Lazio, Leicester, Valencia, Sevilla, the German, French, Portuguese clubs and so on.

If this happens it would be the death of football.

This is the irony of all this.

People complaining about UEFA, FIFA, PL, etc... they act like they're "against the system" and sit here backing the richest clubs, who haven't even earned their place in this league. All of this, while it literally kills 95% of leagues across Europe.

Teams in the Netherlands, Portugal, Russia... leagues with historic clubs from big nations who have won International tournaments, European trophies. These leagues aren't going to be able to ever attract better players. They could through qualifying for the CL, having great European seasons. Now? Their domestic TV rights will plummet, the CL will be lesser than it was and the TV rights there were plummet. Hundreds of clubs will probably cease to exist.

The money in football will now all be funnelled through a few teams. Well done for supporting a monopoly. I hope none of you guys have android phones or buy stuff from anywhere except Amazon. Support the monopoly, help the rich get richer!
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Danny
post Apr 19 2021, 04:47 PM
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QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Apr 19 2021, 04:34 PM) *
I agree with this, based on the point that these clubs LEAVE their domestic leagues.

Let the worldwide customers have their franchises. Let us fans have our football clubs.


*waves* hey Kurt. Well, yes, they'll be kicked out their domestic leagues, no? That's part of it.
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Danny
post Apr 19 2021, 04:50 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Apr 19 2021, 03:23 PM) *
I can't believe you're all supporting this.

This kills the spirit of competition. It creates a feudalistic notion based on power and not on meritocracy. Who are these elitist clubs to ground the rules as they please? Last time I checked football was for everyone.


That's just it, it isn't, and hasn't been for decades X. The elitist system is in place already and has been ensured by the PL, UEFA and FIFA. All that's happened here is clubs have got sick of those governing bodies. Those corrupt bodies.

Never thought I'd see the day when they were being portrayed as the good guys and the clubs the baddies!
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kurtsimonw
post Apr 19 2021, 04:56 PM
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This isn't about corruption, its about money. If it were an anti-corruption campaign, you really think Barca, Madrid and Man City would be invited?
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X-Offender
post Apr 19 2021, 06:23 PM
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Alright, two things:

First of all, nobody is siding with UEFA and FIFA because they believe their honesty and integrity are being jeopardised. This isn't about them, it's about the game of football, and what the game of football represents: competition. With the Super League you are literally killing competition. Furthermore, just because you're opposing UEFA and FIFA doesn't automatically put in you in the right either.

Secondly, what really irks me is how apparently this Super League is coming to fruition because these clubs are not benefitting from their large investments anymore. Expenses are too high and revenues can't cover them, and the Covid crisis only worsened this aspect. I'm sorry, but who was it that drove player prices and wages to INSANE amounts? It wasn't UEFA or FIFA, but the clubs themselves. It was the Chelsea's and City's and Madrid's and Barcelona's and Juventus' of this world. Never would I have imagined 20 years ago that spending 70-80 million on some random player would become the norm, that a player's price would surpass 200 million, that a player would be earning 15-20 million every year just on wages. All of this as the world-wide economy suffers every year. Who spent 60 million on Kaka and 100 million on CR7 in 2009 when the world was in the middle of a global economic crisis?

Everyone is at fault here, UEFA and FIFA included for allowing the creation of such a bubble that it would eventually burst at some point.

And now these clubs are playing the victims of a system they themselves created, and their solution is building an even worse system that just keeps enriching them whilst everyone else fades into obscurity.

And in all of this the game of football and the fans that support it aren't even being considered anymore. All that matters is money, money, money. As Kurt rightfully said, this isn't about corruption, it's just about $$$. And it's disgusting.

This post has been edited by X-Offender: Apr 19 2021, 06:27 PM
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kurtsimonw
post Apr 19 2021, 07:23 PM
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Nah, han is right. And why stop at club football?

The World Cup should just be England, Brazil, Germany, Italy, Spain, France, Argentina + 1 invitee each year. Of course the FAs of those countries would run the competition and employ the referees.

No point in other countries entering, they don't put enough money in to football.
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Fillipo Simone
post Apr 19 2021, 07:40 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Apr 19 2021, 08:23 PM) *
Alright, two things:

First of all, nobody is siding with UEFA and FIFA because they believe their honesty and integrity are being jeopardised. This isn't about them, it's about the game of football, and what the game of football represents: competition. With the Super League you are literally killing competition. Furthermore, just because you're opposing UEFA and FIFA doesn't automatically put in you in the right either.

Secondly, what really irks me is how apparently this Super League is coming to fruition because these clubs are not benefitting from their large investments anymore. Expenses are too high and revenues can't cover them, and the Covid crisis only worsened this aspect. I'm sorry, but who was it that drove player prices and wages to INSANE amounts? It wasn't UEFA or FIFA, but the clubs themselves. It was the Chelsea's and City's and Madrid's and Barcelona's and Juventus' of this world. Never would I have imagined 20 years ago that spending 70-80 million on some random player would become the norm, that a player's price would surpass 200 million, that a player would be earning 15-20 million every year just on wages. All of this as the world-wide economy suffers every year. Who spent 60 million on Kaka and 100 million on CR7 in 2009 when the world was in the middle of a global economic crisis?

Everyone is at fault here, UEFA and FIFA included for allowing the creation of such a bubble that it would eventually burst at some point.

And now these clubs are playing the victims of a system they themselves created, and their solution is building an even worse system that just keeps enriching them whilst everyone else fades into obscurity.

And in all of this the game of football and the fans that support it aren't even being considered anymore. All that matters is money, money, money. As Kurt rightfully said, this isn't about corruption, it's just about $$$. And it's disgusting.

+1

Can't believe you guys are so coldly supporting this. It kills all the joy and fun, and most probably will become dull in a matter of years.
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han2503
post Apr 19 2021, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Apr 19 2021, 03:23 PM) *
I can't believe you're all supporting this.

This kills the spirit of competition. It creates a feudalistic notion based on power and not on meritocracy. Who are these elitist clubs to ground the rules as they please? Last time I checked football was for everyone.

And blaming this on UEFA and FIFA is foolish. Yes, we all think FFP is unfair, but nevertheless I know that any club who puts their heart and soul into the game can achieve success. Clubs like Leicester and Atalanta earned their right to win the league or qualify and fight for the Champions League. Clubs like Milan and Arsenal have no right to sit on top with the best clubs when they've been absolute sh*t.

What is the point in fighting for the top spots in your respective leagues when you know very well that your access to the Super League is secured nevertheless? Right now, if the Super League was a thing, with Inter having virtually won the scudetto, what point would there be for the remaining games till the end of the season?

What about the other clubs? What incentives would they have? Napoli, Roma, Atalanta, Lazio, Leicester, Valencia, Sevilla, the German, French, Portuguese clubs and so on.

If this happens it would be the death of football.

I disagree to a point here because the CL and this SPL can still co-exist along with the domestic leagues

The purpose of this new league is to replace the monopoly UEFA have on european football.

I'm sorry, but I think UEFA have only themselves to blame for this. This has been in the works for years now and UEFA always called the clubs' bluff on this. The pandemic just made sure that the big clubs won't mess about on this anymore. The fact that UEFA keep a huge chunk of the CL money to themselves while having the audacity to only give clubs, namely the ones who are breaking away just a small fraction of that money when they are the cash cows in all of this is what is the issue here.

UEFA trying to act like they're the moral authority of football is what is so ridiculous and laughable here. I say good for all involved. The rest of the clubs will still be able to play the CL btw. Just without the 20 teams involved. So the football pyramid will still be there should this go through

And btw, a club like Leicester cannot even be compared to a club like Atalanta. An EPL team is highly advantaged simply for playing in that league. So as you can see a form of super league already exists in Europe with the EPL already creating a huge imbalance in the system.

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Apr 19 2021, 04:30 PM) *
Yeah, all 12 clubs.

The idea that a league will be governed by directors of these clubs, and rules are in place so that they can never lose their place. It's utterly disgusting.

I'm not thinking of this as the death of football. It's the rebirth. We created the first football league. A league that existed and flourished without these 6 companies.

Many clubs have succeeded. Earned their way to success. Fallen off. That's competition, that's football.

Football in England without these 6 clubs will be exactly that. Football. 20 Premier League football clubs with supporters. Losing 6 companies and their customers are no loss. It's a massive net gain.

There's also a huge, huge correlation between those that support the ESL and those that don't attend football matches. Customers, not fans.

I'm sorry kurt but I have to disagree with you there, especially re the EPL as a whole. The EPL in and of itself is a breakaway league, simply formed for the money. Simple as that really. The obscene TV deal which puts EPL clubs in a huge advantage over their European counterparts only exists because of the top 6 clubs which are going to form this super league. Now tell me what happens to the EPL as a whole and that TV money should the FA and the EPL ban those 6 from the league?

This goes for La Liga, Serie A, and the Bundesliga (reports saying Bayern are also a part of this now) as well.

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Apr 19 2021, 04:56 PM) *
This isn't about corruption, its about money. If it were an anti-corruption campaign, you really think Barca, Madrid and Man City would be invited?

Agreed. And it's why UEFA are throwing a hissy fit as well. You think they care about football? The grass root of the game? The fans? No. They want the money and the authority over football. I'm sorry but their time is up and they deserve all that is coming to them imo
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X-Offender
post Apr 19 2021, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Apr 19 2021, 07:40 PM) *
+1

Can't believe you guys are so coldly supporting this. It kills all the joy and fun, and most probably will become dull in a matter of years.


That's another thing. There won't exciting games among big clubs anymore because it will be the norm every week. As they say in the Incredibles movie, "When everyone is super, no one will be".
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han2503
post Apr 19 2021, 08:05 PM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Apr 19 2021, 07:40 PM) *
+1

Can't believe you guys are so coldly supporting this. It kills all the joy and fun, and most probably will become dull in a matter of years.

And I personally think that fans going in favour of UEFA just doesn't make any sense either.

UEFA and FIFA are probably 2 of the most corrupt "legit" organisations in the world. They've held the monopoly over football for too long imo
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han2503
post Apr 19 2021, 08:09 PM
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A great vid on FIFA as an organisation for anyone who hasn't seen it. UEFA are basically the same thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlJEt2KU33I
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kurtsimonw
post Apr 19 2021, 08:22 PM
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Nobody are saying UEFA are perfect, far from it.

But a league created, population and governed by a few clubs being the better option? LOL

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Apr 19 2021, 08:23 PM
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kurtsimonw
post Apr 19 2021, 08:26 PM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ Apr 19 2021, 09:04 PM) *
And btw, a club like Leicester cannot even be compared to a club like Atalanta. An EPL team is highly advantaged simply for playing in that league. So as you can see a form of super league already exists in Europe with the EPL already creating a huge imbalance in the system.

If you think it's easier for Leicester to compete with a bunch of billionaire state owned teams, that Atalanta competing with a few semi-rich clubs, you're living on a different planet.

Leicester are the reason this league exists. Because the money clubs don't like the idea that teams who buy and play smart can beat them when they're throwing money at everything.

The ONLY people that support these league are armchair customers. If you support this, you are not a football fan. You are a customer.
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